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  1. #1

    Less High PVE/PVP on Alliance: Who Cares?

    I keep seeing people scream about "wahhh Alliance dead" when the numbers show that both sides are pretty equal: it's just that less people on Alliance give a shit about serious PVP or Heroic/Mythic raiding.

    This brings up a few points:
    1) Why is a faction "dead" if it doesn't do as much higher content/is filled with more casual players?
    2) What is stopping these people from going to Horde if they are obsessed with a bigger raiding/pve community?
    3) Why can't people move on from the fact that casual play is the only reason this franchise still exists today?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    2) What is stopping these people from going to Horde if they are obsessed with a bigger raiding/pve community?
    And this is the same reason why WoW NEEDS cross-faction PvE/PvP. Friends.

    WoW is a multiplayer game, and let's face it, the fondest WoW memories we all have are with a group of friends/a guild. Ditching all your friends for a better progression feels wrong. Not to mention there's real money pricetag attached to that.

    I have friends from all levels of play, from the completly new, casual, raiding, pvp, top 10 world, and gladiator pvp. And let me tell you one thing, no, they aren't all on one faction. Same care about PvE, they go to Horde, some care about PvP, they go to alliance, some care about casual play, they go to whatever faction looks better to them.

    Simple cross-faction grouping would completly resolve the huge faction imbalance and aliance die-off.

  3. #3
    Captain Crunch is right! Of course, I neither care for PVP nor raiding, as I'm an alt-holic who face rolls through LFR and pet battles so my opinion likely doesn't matter much.

  4. #4
    Where are these numbers you're referencing?

    1) If one doesn't have people to group with, then it makes the world fill deserted, which in turn makes it feel dead.
    2) This sounds like your solution to "Alliance feels dead" is for more people to transfer to Horde. That feels really backwards to me, personally.
    3) I cannot presume to talk for those people. I'm not one of them, personally.

    As far as the central conceit of your post, I personally don't feel Alliance is difficult to find people to play with. I'm in a heroic raid guild that has consistently gotten ahead of the curve, which is as far as I care to push raiding. I don't really care about Mythic+, but I still get a 10+ run in most weeks just from other people asking for volunteers to fill up a group. There are more events going on than I have time to participate in, from BG groups to achievement runs to transmog farming. If people consider Alliance to be dead, I suspect that they just don't know how to find people to play with.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Captain Crunch is right! Of course, I neither care for PVP nor raiding, as I'm an alt-holic who face rolls through LFR and pet battles so my opinion likely doesn't matter much.
    Even there you deal with longer queue times for pve content due to less people playing.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  6. #6
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    The only reason I remain alliance is because I have every class at 120 all on the same realm. Each of my alts has professions that I can use to benefit my alts and I never have to worry about finding an enchanter/alchemist/JC. If they ever gave away free faction changes, I'd switch horde in a heart beat. Honestly, if it gets to the point where leveling from 1-60 isn't very time consuming, I might just start leveling horde characters. I already have a 120 orc sham and 4 other 100's from when I was horde from vanilla-WoD. I care about mythic raid progression and pushing high arena ratings. Korgath, where my alliance characters are is a soon to be merged (god I hope so) realm that sits at Low pop and is full of nothing but casuals. The only decent guild that was pushing mythic EP progression transferred off and all that's left are predominantly xmoggers/pet and mount collectors.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Even there you deal with longer queue times for pve content due to less people playing.
    Good point.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Fistfighter View Post
    I have friends from all levels of play, from the completly new, casual, raiding, pvp, top 10 world, and gladiator pvp. And let me tell you one thing, no, they aren't all on one faction. Same care about PvE, they go to Horde, some care about PvP, they go to alliance, some care about casual play, they go to whatever faction looks better to them.
    So true. In the 15 years I've played this game the people I've met scattered across all factions and servers because of the gross imbalance at various stages, including IRL friends. Sometimes just helping out some friends on the other side would be a nice change of pace - since none of us care about the childish faction conflict anymore.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  9. #9
    So Warmode is "serious PvP" now? Because the Alliance sat at 20-30% Bonus the entire BFA expansion, which is the most official confirmation we ever got that "both sides are pretty equal" does not apply.

    You can look at EVERY content in the game you want, you will always find the Horde dominating. Sure, it is most extreme in high-end content (~90% Horde there)..and gets lower when you head towards the more casual content. But even there it NEVER dips below 60:40 in favour of the Horde.

    Others have mentioned LFR. The utter and complete lack of anything worthwhile to be aquired from raiding in BFA hit LFR very hard. In my region/language pool (EU German) LFR is not any longer available on most days. It simply does not open. And if it does open, people who leave do not get replaced. So i guess LFR is "high end PvE content" now.

    But the most important aspect in all of this is the following:
    There are REASONS why players gravitate towards the Horde. For some it is simply the desire to play the bigger faction no matter what. But for anybody else, the quality of the content/aesthetics may be a deciding factor? And Blizzard BLATANTLY prefers the Horde in those aspects. BFA was an expansion about the Horde for the Horde. There was NOTHING in this expansion for the Alliance. All of the Allied Races were superior for the Horde. The Horde got actual story tie-ins for their Dungeons/raids while 2 out 5 raids of the entire expansion made ZERO SENSE to even be played as Alliance. They are basically out-of-game content as Alliance.
    The level of polish in terms of number of bugs/quality of cutscenes/dialogue even such mundane things as spellchecking are all VASTLY better on the Horde, because Blizzard puts much more effort into their content compared to the blue faction.

    Long story short: The faction imbalance is important because it makes Blizzard care even more about the Horde and even less about the Alliance. Why waste the equal amount of resources on a faction that only has half the players? This causes the Alliance content to be objectively worse. It has objectively less hours of development put into it. In some cases: FAR less. It has more bugs. It takes longer for these bugs to be fixed. It has less effort put into the quality of the narrative.

    So to answer the OPs question: It is important because the imbalance causes the Alliance-content to be worse and Blizzard to simply not care.
    Last edited by Nathasil; 2019-11-12 at 12:50 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    since none of us care about the childish faction conflict anymore.
    Oooo the immersed people are going to get youuu
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    I keep seeing people scream about "wahhh Alliance dead" when the numbers show that both sides are pretty equal: it's just that less people on Alliance give a shit about serious PVP or Heroic/Mythic raiding.

    This brings up a few points:
    1) Why is a faction "dead" if it doesn't do as much higher content/is filled with more casual players?
    2) What is stopping these people from going to Horde if they are obsessed with a bigger raiding/pve community?
    3) Why can't people move on from the fact that casual play is the only reason this franchise still exists today?
    People don't want to pay to move characters, throw away characters, leave friends and groups behind and the game is story based too. Some just don't like 1 side or the other. It is like living in a small city you like, your family lives there and you really enjoy many things about it, but things keep closing and it is harder and harder for you to do the things you used to enjoy. The big difference here is Blizzard can and should do something to help out both the faction balance issues and lower population server issues. They are doing a serious disservice to players on lower population servers letting them just rot there, in many cases the players there don't even realize how much better things could be. Seeing how people just randomly pick servers and to some degree factions, you can really set yourself at a disadvantage by making a bad choice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Good point.
    I do very little on the Alliance side of things, just enough for faction specific rep requirements or things like that. I can say that the time it takes to get into groups or find groups via LFG or the premade group finder is much, much worse for the Alliance. This is amplified and highlighted even more if you play outside of peak times. The only queue times that ever seem to be better for Alliance is for pvp.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathasil View Post
    So to answer the OPs question: It is important because the imbalance causes the Alliance-content to be worse and Blizzard to simply not care.
    It often feels like they are being financially short sighted. They are rewarded by a faction xfer fee as a result they don't see an issue. The balance problems do compound for people and they end up quitting though.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    It often feels like they are being financially short sighted. They are rewarded by a faction xfer fee as a result they don't see an issue. The balance problems do compound for people and they end up quitting though.
    True. I would rather quit the game than main Horde or "identify" as a "Horde player" - but to get the Alliance content on par Blizzard would either have to reduce the number of hours put into the Horde content or increase the overall effort. And obviously right now neither of these options seems to be worth it to them.

    Who knows. I would not put it past them to have planned it that way. Starve the Alliance off...and when almost nobody is left anymore simply declare "OK boys, the faction split is over! Everybody is Horde now!". Maybe right now, with the massive imbalance they have created, this is the financially most prudent thing to do.

  13. #13
    See, nobody has proof or statistics: they just want to use "Alliance is dying" as a way to bitch about "muh story" or "muh mounts".

    Nobody gives a fuck that 2 raids were Horde focused, nobody is quitting over that. Get real.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    See, nobody has proof or statistics: they just want to use "Alliance is dying" as a way to bitch about "muh story" or "muh mounts".

    Nobody gives a fuck that 2 raids were Horde focused, nobody is quitting over that. Get real.
    While we don't know exact number various sites do track enough information to give us a very good idea. Beyond that you can look at things like how long it takes for Alliance to fill up the 100 CE for the hall of fame to open cross faction raiding. In Uldir it was so bad that the next tier was a week or 2 away before the Alliance finished at that point 500ish Horde guilds were done.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  15. #15
    Here's what I don't get about not having cross-faction raiding: most of the time we're fighting the same thing together, story-wise. Like, I'm sure the Alliance and the Horde didn't go separately to punch Ragnaros in the dick. There's a handful of raids where that's not true (Dazar'alor, ICC although you could just remove that fight and have the factions not be stupid) but most of the time I'm just like "why not?".
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    Also, it's should HAVE. NOT "should of". "Should of" doesn't even make sense. If you think you should own a cat, do you say "I should of a cat" or "I should have a cat"? Do you HAVE cats, or do you OF cats?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    While we don't know exact number various sites do track enough information to give us a very good idea. Beyond that you can look at things like how long it takes for Alliance to fill up the 100 CE for the hall of fame to open cross faction raiding. In Uldir it was so bad that the next tier was a week or 2 away before the Alliance finished at that point 500ish Horde guilds were done.
    Game isn't balanced around Hall of Fame or Mythic Raid for that matter, Alliance probably have 800% more ERPer than Horde.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaW View Post
    Game isn't balanced around Hall of Fame or Mythic Raid for that matter, Alliance probably have 800% more ERPer than Horde.
    Of course it isn't, but it does give a snap shot of how out of whack one part and a major part of the game is. People having this knowledge also furthers the problem. If you want to do that sort of content you opt out of the faction as a result, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy in a way. You can see the gap for mythic + as well. This also can be felt in the extended queue times the alliance gets for LFG content compared to the horde. This is even worse during off peak hours.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  18. #18
    I don't. I just want above average gear, so then I can crush noobs in warmode. Which usually involves just m+ and heroic raiding. I really don't care about mythic raiding, sometimes I even bail on a guild if it insists I go into mythic raids and if I don't I get demoted to Casual or some shit.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Of course it isn't, but it does give a snap shot of how out of whack one part and a major part of the game is. People having this knowledge also furthers the problem.
    Exactly, high end content is just one part of the game, RP is the other part. So technically it balance itself out, one is competitive faction, one is roleplayer faction, Population wise, both faction are equal with slight advantage for Alliance.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    The only reason I remain alliance is because I have every class at 120 all on the same realm. Each of my alts has professions that I can use to benefit my alts and I never have to worry about finding an enchanter/alchemist/JC. If they ever gave away free faction changes, I'd switch horde in a heart beat. Honestly, if it gets to the point where leveling from 1-60 isn't very time consuming, I might just start leveling horde characters. I already have a 120 orc sham and 4 other 100's from when I was horde from vanilla-WoD. I care about mythic raid progression and pushing high arena ratings. Korgath, where my alliance characters are is a soon to be merged (god I hope so) realm that sits at Low pop and is full of nothing but casuals. The only decent guild that was pushing mythic EP progression transferred off and all that's left are predominantly xmoggers/pet and mount collectors.
    You know you can buy for only few € the faction change and enjoy the game as you like.

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