Council? Actually, Baine is the unofficial Warchief

[Verdugo]

Again, given the nature of the one directing the conflict, I'm not really sure I find fault with that. Sylvanas was *not* on the side of the Horde, and neither were her loyalists at the end of the day.

How convenient for him.

[Maljinwo]

Beardly Potential > Human Potential

Dwarves are the best thing in the Alliance

[mickybrighteyes]

i know, but that swiss cheese level plot hole is everywhere. i mean after suramar and all, Thalysra was all like "Im off to ashenvale to kill drooods!" (if she doesnt say that shes not helping the horde, if she says that she proves tyrande right lol). and then she is all "sylvanas bad" and now everyone is chummy with each other.

Was Thalysra even there?

I thought it was just her being stuck aligned with horde forces after the war of thorns broke out.

[Paraka]

He saw their request as them asking for help, which Baine saw as not having enough resources or soldiers to help them. When the vulpera showed they could be a proper asset to the horde he realised their worth.

Seriously if this was a garrosh situation where the vulpera asked to join and he said no because he saw them as weak, only for them to prove their worth and him changing his mind, the people complaining about this thing with Baine wouldn't bat an eyelid to garrosh doing the same?
This fan community is so bloody toxic something..

Hell, he accepted weak Pandaren without batting an eye.

Literally he should have known much of the Vulpera by this point, he should been a bit more excited over the literal proactive attempt to join. Not even the Blood Elves were fully on board and Thrall was just, "Close enough!"

But hey, blanket statements cause I am not on board with the so-passive-he-doesn't-lead Baine.

Afterthought; Hell the last bit is even more amusing. A newcomer has to REMIND Baine, a dude that's been about since the start of WoW, under the tutelage of Cairne of all people, what it is to be Horde. That just makes this scene worse.

[Benitora]

Hell, he accepted weak Pandaren without batting an eye.

Literally he should have known much of the Vulpera by this point, he should been a bit more excited over the literal proactive attempt to join. Not even the Blood Elves were fully on board and Thrall was just, "Close enough!"

Pandaren are not physically weak at all though.
They may be "fat", but not weak by any means.

[Trassk]

Pandaren are not physically weak at all though.
They may be "fat", but not weak by any means.

This ^
The pandaren came with unique fighting styles and resources that even idiot garrosh could see. The vulpera where small group of desert dwellers that hadn't shown much aside from to the player character at that point, so of course baine hadn't yet seen their potential at that time.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

dont even care. my characters are now neutral of alliance and horde. baine can turn the Horde into longhorn steakhouse for all i care

[Th3Scourge]

Baine? Baine fucking Bloodhoof. Of all characters, we're stuck with that dickless bull. How did it come to this??

[EbaumsTipster]

You guys are putting more thought into this than Blizz has. Notice how zero text for the council forming has shown up on the PTR: it's not in place yet in Horde society.

[Maleific]

Well, the good thing is with current pattern he will die or be replaced in 2 expansions

Honestly, I don't think that'll be the case. He's basically what all the ally fanbois wanted, so there's 90% of the bitching gone already.

[Powerogue]

I mean he is the most diplomatic of them. Did you want someone all "rargh smashy smash" in that chair negotiating treaties with new allied races? Sylvanas sucked at it. Remember her hype crew? https://www.wowhead.com/npc=133407/a...guard#comments

[Aleloron]

It saddens me how the poor writing has butchered Baine’s character. As the son of the baddest Tauren on the planet he had a lot of potential and they flushed it down the drain. Remember, this is a Tauren capable of ripping Garrosh Hellscream in half, like his alternate universe self did when Cairne was killed by Garrosh during their fight. He could have been, and should have been, pretty damn awesome.

Edit: that being said, I do like Baine and I really don’t understand the level of hatred towards his character. I don’t think that he’s a coward or that he licks the boots of the Alliance; I believe that he acts the way he does because of his deep-rooted concern for the survival of the Tauren and for most of the Horde as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Dwarves are the best thing in the Alliance

Which is why the Dwarves need to come to the Horde. We need those epic and lush beards.

[ErrandRunner]

The vehement hate for Baine by some players is beyond irrational. You are just angry the Horde is not led by a hot-headed warmonger (yes most of these strong anti-Baine types are avid Garrosh fans).

[Biske]

Baine is the most non-confrontational, passive racial leader in the entire Horde. It makes sense that they'd use him for welcoming new members to the Horde since I'm sure he makes at least a good diplomat if you're trying to foster a friendship.

However, people absolutely fucking hate passive characters in general, as shown by the fact that a lot of Horde players still would side with Sylvanas over him, even though she was (is?) planning on literally killing everyone, which shows they'd rather die for someone who sees them as "nothing" and "tin soldiers playing at war" than follow a passive character. And that's not unique to Baine/Sylvanas. It's part of why in literature you want to avoid making your main character passive. And there's a difference between "peaceful" and "passive". Baine just happens to be both. There's so much he could have done against Sylvanas but he chose to simply let things flow until other people decided to take action in his stead.

He'll never be Cairne, and has a rather unimpressive track record so far and has shown that he can be kept "in line" by fear. As for his dealings with the Alliance... I really don't care. The Horde wasn't created as a response to the Alliance, in fact, it was the other way around, for the old Horde, at least, which means the old Horde predates it, and the new Horde initially had no beef with it and has actually worked alongside it on multiple occasions (which makes it harder for me to understand why people are so shocked. Like, the FOUNDER of the new Horde was best friends with Jaina). I just can't be assed to care about that. But I 100% understand that people don't like Baine.

Personally, despite his faults, I'm mostly just neutral towards him. I do like that he's not some bloodthirsty warrior or something because the Horde doesn't all have to be defined by that one thing. Blood Elves are also not that thing, but people have been saying BEs are no true Scotsmen since they were punted into the Horde anyway (it's true their ties didn't start as strong as the other races, but that's why they start as neutral, rather than friendly).

[tromage2]

Soon i can meet up with the true Warchief "Garrosh" in the shadowlands and hopefully blizzard gives me the options to leave this faction of traitors and backstabbers.

[Feanoro]

This is just the way Blizzard writes. The Alliance was always supposed to be a council, but they invented the High King position to justify Varian and Anduin doing everything because keeping everyone involved is too complicated for them.

They aren't going to have every single leader involved in every single event, even if they logically should. Most decisions are still going to be made by one or two leaders. We'll probably see some of Thrall whenever they can get Metzen back, but figured Baine's VA was more reliable so he's the "default" guy.

How dare you inject real world reasons and logic into this?

Did you want someone all "rargh smashy smash" in that chair negotiating treaties with new allied races?

Yes they do, and everything else as well.

[Super Dickmann]

I mean he is the most diplomatic of them. Did you want someone all "rargh smashy smash" in that chair negotiating treaties with new allied races? Sylvanas sucked at it. Remember her hype crew? https://www.wowhead.com/npc=133407/a...guard#comments

Sylvanas actively went out of her way to send people to bring races into the Horde and to cut the Zandalari slack after the attack on Dazar'alor. A race literally went all the way to Orgrimmar to ask Baine to join and he told them to go away. This despite her whole goal being to get everyone involved killed and failing at her job. The vulpera had to resolve all the things Baine had already fucked up in his short tenure before he changed his mind, even though he'd spent the first half of the expansion in Dazar'alor, apparently scratching his balls since he neither helped the Zandalari nor learned that the vulpera could be useful.

The sentiment he expressed that they should not accept more people when the Horde is in bad straits is a good one. That he knew fuck all about the people he rejected and that the problems he couldn't solve were successfully handled by a tribe of desert furries, but he, despite being functionally the Warchief of the Horde, couldn't do it, makes him appear incompetent instead. A Baine who carries this sentiment forward and also has two brain cells to rub together would be a marginally improved Baine.

@Aucald

I mean, Baine didn't know any of this and still doesn't, so this retroactive morality doesn't apply, but that actually doesn't matter. His intervention into the Derek situation meant that several more people went to the Maw, on his own side, than if the plan had gone off without a hitch, where it would've been four tops. Those Forsaken officers and rangers, he offed who would've become good Calia drones are now burning in hell.

[Daronokk]

Screw Baine, I want a Warchief that doesn't suck. Like Garrosh or early Thrall.

Go'el, Vol'jin and Baine are retarded Alliance bootlickers. Sylvanas is just plain evil, was okay at first but doesn't quite fit the Horde because she's an Elf.

[ksehsatoo]

Well who cares, its different in 2 years anyway xd

[BDu]

The Council rules the horde. Baine is the spokesman