Council? Actually, Baine is the unofficial Warchief

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

I guess even if it's a Council, There's still a person that's more influential than the other. Baine doesn't rule all decisions with a iron fist but his words does have more say compared to the other Council Members. The Horde has suffered all kind of damages and is far from their primes at the moment so it makes sense that Baine's net worth is higher than the other members within the Council.

The Horde's leadership is always changing and it won't be long before it changes again. Possible future choice includes Thrall returning as the actor or even Garrosh if we bring him back from the Shadowlands. He was one of the greatest leader of the Horde in many other realities except this one but things could change now that he's in the afterlife. He had a eternity somewhere in the Shadowlands to reflect upon his past action. And since the Shadowlands is span across all realities. He might find guidance and help from his other reality versions in the Shadowland. It won't be surprising if he strive to be a better person once he comes back to Azeroth.

[Raisei]

Sylvanas actively went out of her way to send people to bring races into the Horde and to cut the Zandalari slack after the attack on Dazar'alor. A race literally went all the way to Orgrimmar to ask Baine to join and he told them to go away. This despite her whole goal being to get everyone involved killed and failing at her job. The vulpera had to resolve all the things Baine had already fucked up in his short tenure before he changed his mind, even though he'd spent the first half of the expansion in Dazar'alor, apparently scratching his balls since he neither helped the Zandalari nor learned that the vulpera could be useful.

Sylvanas only ever actively recruited to have more people fightng in her war and thus more people dying, because that strengthens her new BFF. Not sure if that is the kind of mindset we want Baine to aspire to.

The sentiment he expressed that they should not accept more people when the Horde is in bad straits is a good one. That he knew fuck all about the people he rejected and that the problems he couldn't solve were successfully handled by a tribe of desert furries, but he, despite being functionally the Warchief of the Horde, couldn't do it, makes him appear incompetent instead. A Baine who carries this sentiment forward and also has two brain cells to rub together would be a marginally improved Baine.

He declines the Vulpera for a sound reason indeed: After the war and a complete restructure of the Horde leadership they have to get their organisation in order first before they can add more new people, that bring their own problems.
It isn't about them not being useful, every new ally you get also has needs and wishes that you have to somehow incorporate into your policy, these do not have to be visible right away, but they are there. The best example is that Arcwine problem in Suramar that Baine is supposed to fix. I am sure when the Nightborn joined it wasn't under the express condition that the Horde was responsible for the Arcwine distribution in Suramar (which btw. I thought was no longer necessary... are they still stealing barrels from demons their? Did the Horde not fix them in their quests?), but it has come up now and as allies the Horde is under obligation to help.
Adding more and more people will just create more problems at the current state, so declining to take these on for the time being is a decent enough choice. He didn't kick them out or anything.

I mean, Baine didn't know any of this and still doesn't, so this retroactive morality doesn't apply, but that actually doesn't matter. His intervention into the Derek situation meant that several more people went to the Maw, on his own side, than if the plan had gone off without a hitch, where it would've been four tops. Those Forsaken officers and rangers, he offed who would've become good Calia drones are now burning in hell.

I think for the death count to be at the lowest it would have been the best if Sylvanas had not started this plan in the first place. But then that would have been contrary to her plan, wouldn't it.
Considering she did to Derek what Arthas did to her, she clearly crossed another line there. It was a vile and disgusting method and a lot more of the Horde leaders present at the following meeting should have spoken up, people like Thalryssa, Liadrin and Lor'themar at the very least. None had the guts to do it.

Had Sylvanas shown at least the slightest hint of regret about going too far, explaining why this move felt necessary even if she hated it, instead of flat out calling Baine a traitor and killing Zellig, there might even have been a chance that the other leaders would not have sided with Saurfang when it counted. But classic sociopath that she is, all guilt lies with Baine.
What I don't get is why the community agrees with her there. Baine is the only one that showed the balls to act against an act of pure malice and yes he had to kill a few Forsaken that readily helped Sylvanas with her diplorable plan (who should be realizing even more then Baine how wrong it is, having been mind controled undead and all, but I guess they will not object until it targets themselves), yet somehow these few kills are sooooo much worse then Sylvanas entire plan to eradicate life on a global scale... I just don't get it.

[Super Dickmann]

Sylvanas only ever actively recruited to have more people fightng in her war and thus more people dying, because that strengthens her new BFF. Not sure if that is the kind of mindset we want Baine to aspire to.

And despite this being her motive she was still a more able diplomat who had a better understanding of the people she recruited. Bitch went as far as to get a tool to access another timeline just to up the kill count and waved the Zandalari's losses after their deaths despite most of them presumably going to Bwon instead of the Maw. Baine shouldn't aspire to trying to kill as many people as possible, though that would be pretty funny, but he should aspire to at least reach the level of diplomacy achieved by an evil zombie who did.

He declines the Vulpera for a sound reason indeed: After the war and a complete restructure of the Horde leadership they have to get their organisation in order first before they can add more new people, that bring their own problems.
It isn't about them not being useful, every new ally you get also has needs and wishes that you have to somehow incorporate into your policy, these do not have to be visible right away, but they are there. The best example is that Arcwine problem in Suramar that Baine is supposed to fix. I am sure when the Nightborn joined it wasn't under the express condition that the Horde was responsible for the Arcwine distribution in Suramar (which btw. I thought was no longer necessary... are they still stealing barrels from demons their? Did the Horde not fix them in their quests?), but it has come up now and as allies the Horde is under obligation to help.
Adding more and more people will just create more problems at the current state, so declining to take these on for the time being is a decent enough choice. He didn't kick them out or anything.

His reasoning would be solid if it were correct. If Baine was focusing on successfully solving problems within the Horde capable and didn't want to take up a burden he knew the Horde couldn't carry, he'd be right, but that's not the case. Firstly, things were handled so badly that the problem could be resolved by the vulpera who not only knew none of these areas except Zandalar, but are lacking in resources and manpower, yet they still handled the things that the guys Baine dispatched couldn't. Secondly, we're told that Baine is a diplomat who helped Talanji a lot in Zandalar, yet he considers the vulpera to be a net drain on resources, despite being exactly the kind of character who'd see past their furrybait visual design to know that they can contribute.

The arcwine thing is just weird. It shouldn't exist without the Nightwell, and if it's just regular wine, then I've no idea why it's such a big deal. Also sending Nomi in there is fun for a laugh, but really doesn't do Baine any favors delegation-wise.

I think for the death count to be at the lowest it would have been the best if Sylvanas had not started this plan in the first place. But then that would have been contrary to her plan, wouldn't it.
Considering she did to Derek what Arthas did to her, she clearly crossed another line there. It was a vile and disgusting method and a lot more of the Horde leaders present at the following meeting should have spoken up, people like Thalryssa, Liadrin and Lor'themar at the very least. None had the guts to do it.

Derek wasn't mind controlled, but tortured, so that's wrong, but hell, let's say he was mindcontrolled? Who gives the least bit of a shit? The Forsaken have been possessing people since day 1, and the Horde practiced slavery since Day 1, under every Warchief except Vol'jin. Making a slave and sending him in as an assassin being somehow uniquely deplorable is pure nonsense. There's worse shit going down on the beach where Baine spazzed out on, what with Mag'har nomming the souls of footmen to feed to the void, or the mine further down the road where Kul Tiran slaves are labouring for the Horde.

But never you mind that, taking away someone's free will by torture is actually more evil than even doing it with mind control, so let's actually go with what happened. You know what the ultimate loss of free will is though? Death. After you are killed, you have no ability to take any actions. You are dead. Ergo, when Baine killed those Forsaken to bail Derek out, he deprived more people of their free will (and sent them to hell), than would've died in the achievement of the scheme, and those were people on his side of the war at that. Baine had no knowledge of Sylvanas's plan to kill everyone at the time, but even in a hypothetical where he did, he'd still be doing more harm than good in terms of how many people went to the Maw.

Further, in war, it goes without saying that the worth of the lives of your allies far outstrips the worth of the lives of the enemy. Equivocating between the lives of an enemy and ally in war time is comical. If a US General went out and began capping some soldiers in the head because they were waterboarding a guy to later send him to work as an inside man, past the fact that this would never take place, he'd get a quick appointment with the chair for his trouble and past the usual suspects it wouldn't be a very contested decision either. So too with Baine and Zelling. Not only did Sylvanas do nothing wrong in executing Zelling on the spot, but her only mistake re: Baine was not offing him too. The fact that the rest of the dickless Horde leadership care more about the mental state of a reused enemy asset than the deaths of their own side is just further demonstration of why they're such contemptible failures and why even in story, only a scant minority backed them until Sylvanas peaced out.

Baine was wrong within the context of the information he had at the time, and he's wrong in the overall context in that his actions sent more people to eternal suffering than the achievement of the plan.

[Jshadowhunter]

dont think the orcs get a say in planet wide destruction.....cuz you know.....green thing shiny!

Maghar are the ones that turned on the green thing shiny.

[Raisei]

Derek wasn't mind controlled, but tortured, so that's wrong, but hell, let's say he was mindcontrolled? Who gives the least bit of a shit? The Forsaken have been possessing people since day 1, and the Horde practiced slavery since Day 1, under every Warchief except Vol'jin. Making a slave and sending him in as an assassin being somehow uniquely deplorable is pure nonsense. There's worse shit going down on the beach where Baine spazzed out on, what with Mag'har nomming the souls of footmen to feed to the void, or the mine further down the road where Kul Tiran slaves are labouring for the Horde.

But never you mind that, taking away someone's free will by torture is actually more evil than even doing it with mind control, so let's actually go with what happened. You know what the ultimate loss of free will is though? Death. After you are killed, you have no ability to take any actions. You are dead. Ergo, when Baine killed those Forsaken to bail Derek out, he deprived more people of their free will (and sent them to hell), than would've died in the achievement of the scheme, and those were people on his side of the war at that. Baine had no knowledge of Sylvanas's plan to kill everyone at the time, but even in a hypothetical where he did, he'd still be doing more harm than good in terms of how many people went to the Maw.

Further, in war, it goes without saying that the worth of the lives of your allies far outstrips the worth of the lives of the enemy. Equivocating between the lives of an enemy and ally in war time is comical. If a US General went out and began capping some soldiers in the head because they were waterboarding a guy to later send him to work as an inside man, past the fact that this would never take place, he'd get a quick appointment with the chair for his trouble and past the usual suspects it wouldn't be a very contested decision either. So too with Baine and Zelling. Not only did Sylvanas do nothing wrong in executing Zelling on the spot, but her only mistake re: Baine was not offing him too. The fact that the rest of the dickless Horde leadership care more about the mental state of a reused enemy asset than the deaths of their own side is just further demonstration of why they're such contemptible failures and why even in story, only a scant minority backed them until Sylvanas peaced out.

Baine was wrong within the context of the information he had at the time, and he's wrong in the overall context in that his actions sent more people to eternal suffering than the achievement of the plan.

Well, I do see very little difference between magically mind-controlling someone and torturing them until their character breaks, with the exception that the second is indeed even worse.
But otherwise I think your comparison are not really equal. Slavery is one thing, a crime for sure, but it is quite easily overshadowed by breaking the mind of a man so that he murders his family. This is the action of a terrorist not of a person claiming to lead a "nation" and no world leader would ever be able to openly admit to such an action simply because it is so horrendous, not just because of the lives lost. It's about what the nation itself becomes in the eyes of everyone else and even your own people when such acts are exceptable. There is a reason why there are such things as "crimes" even during wartime.
Which is exactly why Baine did what he did. It might have hit him especially hard since he was a friend of Jaina, but in essence he saw the Horde develop into Sylvanas personal terrorist group, casually commiting one warcrimes after the next, simply because Sylvanas does not give a damn about living people or anything besides herself (that much Baines knows unless he is blind). Neither he nor Saurfang could accept this and many of the other leaders should be their personal characterization have been just the same.

[khalltusk]

If they left the Mulgore gate event in I could see that. But they really killed his credibility with how they had him respond to the events and ignore a certain void of details.


The problem with his actions in BFA... he didn't act with respect to his people's plight but the straw that broke the camel's back was Baine suddenly being overly concerned with forsaken issues and Proudmoore interests. His antics concerning the ship he attacked and captured and subsequently framed as others doing really just looks incredibly poor except for how it's framed as those were sylvanas loyalists not just horde defending their posts and it was disrupting Sylvanas' plans. the story just ignores that issue that YES Baine's actions are treasonous and we just accept those deaths that occurred as expected because those killed must have been bad.

IMO when he blatantly admitted to orchestrating the events it was just beyond retarded. Like... really... gonna say outright you killed horde crew, stole horde ship, and went to a lead military adviser of the nation we're at war with to discuss confidential plans and actions...

Jesus tap dancing christ that's some retarded planning and the icing on the cake was that he had TWO people he discussed this with. Zelling or Voss leading that bit would make a lick of sense given their original inclination to 'forsaken' ideals (pre-BFA for voss that is cause she flipped in an odd way)... Baine? Baine never cared about Forsaken and was even among those against Forsaken membership to begin with.

Now Zelling/Voss in Baine's place would make a lot more sense as a reason for Baine to act IMO cause it's Sylvanas acting against her own people and you can snowball a better series of reasons for Baine to take action than him suddenly trying to sneaky sneaky his Tauren hindparts into someplace he's not allowed and framing pirates (frame job feels far more like what Voss would do as well)

Well for Baines action in BFA, we can see early on he had his suspicions about the whole war. Now was he concerned with proudmoore interests? Not really, it was more to do with can he stand by and watch someone who had nothing to do with the war get resurrected and tortured? The simple answer is no. As for the loyalists, if you're going to have someone that critical to your plans as this guy was, you don't have your regulars guarding him. You have people loyal to the cause. So thats more than believable.

It makes logical sense that he acted the way he did when he saw what was happening. Could they have done better? Sure, but in the context I saw, his actions were logical. He tried to cover it up as much as he could as he did not want it to come back on his people, but he felt like he had to act.

I don't see it as big an issue as you do which is fair enough. I just want them to continue building up his character and other leaders as much as they can. I've wanted to see the Tauren or their leaders do something for years. So seeing it happen since legion finally is great.

[Arrashi]

The sentiment he expressed that they should not accept more people when the Horde is in bad straits is a good one. That he knew fuck all about the people he rejected and that the problems he couldn't solve were successfully handled by a tribe of desert furries, but he, despite being functionally the Warchief of the Horde, couldn't do it, makes him appear incompetent instead. A Baine who carries this sentiment forward and also has two brain cells to rub together would be a marginally improved Baine.

Which is how we know this quest chain was written by Golden. Blunders like this are her speciality. She tries so hard to make him look like likeable and conflicted character and fails spectacularly.

[Aucald]

I mean, Baine didn't know any of this and still doesn't, so this retroactive morality doesn't apply, but that actually doesn't matter. His intervention into the Derek situation meant that several more people went to the Maw, on his own side, than if the plan had gone off without a hitch, where it would've been four tops. Those Forsaken officers and rangers, he offed who would've become good Calia drones are now burning in hell.

Retroactive morality doesn't apply, no; but then neither does proactive morality (e.g. Baine has no idea about the Maw or the state of Azeroth's death system). Baine was doing what he believed was right by Derek, and it turned out he was certainly correct both in that specific situation and his general opposition to Sylvanas - it's not an excuse for his actions, it's more a recognition that the contents of his heart bore objective fruit in his reality. He also attempted to spare as many as he could in the process of freeing Derek, allowing those who submitted to flee or surrender, knowing full well the risk to himself involved.

I don't always agree with Baine's decisions or actions, but I find no fault in this one. To stand by and allow someone to be tortured so profoundly, to allow a fundamental ideal of the Horde to be bent to the point of breaking, is not a good thing - especially if you have the power to act to stop it.

[Sangris]

Thought the Dark Iron Dwarves would like him for that.


Sometimes a speaker, and member of a council, has to take the choice if there is no other members there. Even so, the Vulpera SHOWED that the Horde needed them.

Thalyssra is literally standing right next to him and yet he doesn't even look in her remote direction and ask her opinion on the matter. It's the same bullshit that Jaina did in Dalaran - ignoring the council they're part of and deciding on a whim what to do. Without any other council member ever mentioning any of it.

[chrisisvacant]

Doesn't matter - Bane will be shoe-horned out of the seat in 2 expansions for another Angry Orc because "orks n' hoomin's" or somesuch outdated nonsense...

And the audience will cheer because "wee B goinz bakz too orks n' hoomins'" or somesuch nonsense...

If anybody believed in this "breaking the cycle" shit, I've got a bridge to sell you. It's got the words "Be warned, if this happens again, we will end you!" engraved on the side by Varian Wrynn himself from half a decade ago...

On a more practical side, the killing the world leaders acheesement does kinda require there to be a leader in Orgrimmar. So I get that part at least...

EDIT: In fact, I'm going to bookmark this post of mine - for when the eventual expansion comes out in 4 years with Blizz proudly stating "We're going back to Orcs and Humans!" and watch people with short-term memory act, once again, as if the game is entering an original era of "returning to original roots" like it never happened before, or happened again, and again, ect...

Yes, orcs and humans are an outdated concept in a game where orcs and humans use swords and maces to attack each other. Zzzzzz.

[Zandalariprelate]

Baine as Warchief? Woohoo, enjoy it while it lasts folks!

So one expansion then? I can live with that, especially if he dies in a shameful way with his BF Anduin

[Boo Radley]

>thinking Baine is a bad character
-years of development
-mirror of Anduin giving a "will good men do good things during dark times" story angle
-Inheriting the horde after finally wrapping up the bad path his father perished trying to prevent, needing to undo a lot of damage
-Making an incredibly selfless sacrifice that he didnt know he would be saved from in saving Derek
"But he's not mah undead waifu and character arcs are too much reading for me"

this is why the mmo-c forums are laughed at

[mickybrighteyes]

Well for Baines action in BFA, we can see early on he had his suspicions about the whole war. Now was he concerned with proudmoore interests? Not really, it was more to do with can he stand by and watch someone who had nothing to do with the war get resurrected and tortured? The simple answer is no.

That could also apply to the other raised Kul Tirans who wound up not serving any end like those that were later used as some sort of 'hostage' against the horde and killed when no reaction was noted or any number of other issues like Brennanden or the siding with San'layn... There was multiple points where horde soldiers were felled by their own side... but it was Derrek Proudmoore that was what so moved him.

As for the loyalists, if you're going to have someone that critical to your plans as this guy was, you don't have your regulars guarding him. You have people loyal to the cause. So thats more than believable.

Except most of the personnel on the boat were NOT. Cause they broke ranks and fled. We go in assuming the worst and go all out to force the conflict on the boat.

It makes logical sense that he acted the way he did when he saw what was happening. Could they have done better? Sure, but in the context I saw, his actions were logical. He tried to cover it up as much as he could as he did not want it to come back on his people, but he felt like he had to act.

Except it loses the logic because it makes little sense for him to care when so much worse had already transpired. He watched his people fall to friendly fire and raised into fodder. There are the questionable campaign events, the multiple fronts opening up with unsavory allies... Derek Proudmoore and forsaken themes are like the most out of place reasoning for Baine to take action on.

Baine*sees his people choking to death to be turned into mindless constructs for battle*: This is, ok.... I guess
Baine*sees Derek*: This man was raised to be turned into a weapon of war THIS IS UNNACCEPTABLE! REVOLUTION!!!!

Dead Tauren: Are we a joke to you?

You might see Baine's actions as logical in the context of the story, I will only agree if we entirely disregard other events. Watching Teldrassil burn? Not too big a deal. Battle for Lordaeron? got a slight reaction but not jumping ship yet. I'd hope Baine was aware of the special friends Sylvanas brought in (Rokhan was aware but we don't see how common this info was)... But it was Proudmoore's corpse and how it turned out that made him commit to uprising.

It's sort of Baine's thing now. Horde has a plan, he breaks ranks to go find Proudmoore or Anduin to talk to.

[Paraka]

Pandaren are not physically weak at all though.
They may be "fat", but not weak by any means.

And though I agree, I recall bits of Garrosh leading me to believe that's not HIS point of view.

Which is more amusing considering Garrosh accepts your Pandaren character with citing he "learned" stuff of their coming. Essentially suggesting people kept him informed of the deeds of your Pandaren before you even arrive. Which would suggest Baine doesn't have the same connections as High Cheiftan. Which just makes this whole scenario an absolute mess.

I get it, Blizz wants Baine super passive, pretty sure we are all on the same page about that. But you don't have to make him incompetent too.

[Verdugo]

-mirror of Anduin giving a "will good men do good things during dark times" story angle

Spoiler: they do, every time, no exception, even when its evil, it somehow comes out as good so it doesnt matter.

[khalltusk]

That could also apply to the other raised Kul Tirans who wound up not serving any end like those that were later used as some sort of 'hostage' against the horde and killed when no reaction was noted or any number of other issues like Brennanden or the siding with San'layn... There was multiple points where horde soldiers were felled by their own side... but it was Derrek Proudmoore that was what so moved him.


Except most of the personnel on the boat were NOT. Cause they broke ranks and fled. We go in assuming the worst and go all out to force the conflict on the boat.


Except it loses the logic because it makes little sense for him to care when so much worse had already transpired. He watched his people fall to friendly fire and raised into fodder. There are the questionable campaign events, the multiple fronts opening up with unsavory allies... Derek Proudmoore and forsaken themes are like the most out of place reasoning for Baine to take action on.

Baine*sees his people choking to death to be turned into mindless constructs for battle*: This is, ok.... I guess
Baine*sees Derek*: This man was raised to be turned into a weapon of war THIS IS UNNACCEPTABLE! REVOLUTION!!!!

Dead Tauren: Are we a joke to you?

You might see Baine's actions as logical in the context of the story, I will only agree if we entirely disregard other events. Watching Teldrassil burn? Not too big a deal. Battle for Lordaeron? got a slight reaction but not jumping ship yet. I'd hope Baine was aware of the special friends Sylvanas brought in (Rokhan was aware but we don't see how common this info was)... But it was Proudmoore's corpse and how it turned out that made him commit to uprising.

It's sort of Baine's thing now. Horde has a plan, he breaks ranks to go find Proudmoore or Anduin to talk to.

Yes I took issue with it, but not for the reasons you had : Baine Bloodhoof accused Sylvanas of leaving Saurfang to die, but Sylvanas retorts that it was the death he wanted and that Baine is free to join him - this is taking from one of the wikis and is in the cut scene. My issue with it was he only confronted her about Saurfang. He should have confronted her about everything else. This in my view is one of two things : 1 he was not there to witness the events outside/the use of poison which I find odd considering the way the battle was going. He should have seen it happening.

The 2nd one would just be pure lazy writing and they forgot about it down the line.

The issue here is many other horde leaders we also present and did jack shit, multiple horde soldiers were there and its not really addressed in game as much as the burning of teldrasil . For me it does break a lot of the logic as you would say.

So for me Sylvannas did far worse far earlier in her campaign than Garrosh ever did and yet she did not get a rebellion until much later. So I personally put it to lazy writing. But if we are being fair all the horde leaders take the blame for this not just Baine. At least he said something to her and on more than one occasion too. Even if he really only moaned about Saurfangs fate.

The boat thing does not bother me as much it does you (Game play > lore in blizzards eyes). So yeh I get your point about how they are Horde soldiers getting stomped. I put it down in my view as they were loyalists and those that jumped had 2nd thoughts about what they were doing. Being that Forsaken are all about free will, at least originally.

I just had to look past a lot of their shitty writing and look towards the good parts that came along. The stuff with Derrick was pretty good story wise and gave his character a moral dilemma to deal with. The out come of which I liked. The battle for lordaeron was a shit show character wise for him and the other horde leaders.

I get where you are coming from though, I am just not trying to take it out on Baine (I really like the tauren and just wanna see them do shit in the lore :P) and I am seeing if they can improve from here. Fingers crossed they keep the leaders involved and can improve upon what they have done so far. As we had Vanilla - TBC - Wrath where Cairne did jack shit. He died in Cata off screen. :/

[Varitok]

Can we get megathreads for all the whining directed at certain characters? For the love of god it's the same 3 people whining in these threads.

[Powerogue]

Sylvanas actively went out of her way to send people to bring races into the Horde and to cut the Zandalari slack after the attack on Dazar'alor. A race literally went all the way to Orgrimmar to ask Baine to join and he told them to go away. This despite her whole goal being to get everyone involved killed and failing at her job. The vulpera had to resolve all the things Baine had already fucked up in his short tenure before he changed his mind, even though he'd spent the first half of the expansion in Dazar'alor, apparently scratching his balls since he neither helped the Zandalari nor learned that the vulpera could be useful.

What in the hell are you talking about? I can think of no time where Baine rejected the vulpera joining the Horde. Baine was one of the ambassadors sent to recruit the allied races (again, emphasizing Sylvanas was absolute garbage at doing it herself, instead turning to the level headed, diplomatic horde leaders like Baine for the job)

I remember Eitrigg for the mag'har, Liadrin for the nightborne, and Baine for the highmountain off the top of my head.

[Sangris]

What in the hell are you talking about? I can think of no time where Baine rejected the vulpera joining the Horde. Baine was one of the ambassadors sent to recruit the allied races (again, emphasizing Sylvanas was absolute garbage at doing it herself, instead turning to the level headed, diplomatic horde leaders like Baine for the job)

I remember Eitrigg for the mag'har, Liadrin for the nightborne, and Baine for the highmountain off the top of my head.

Do the recruitment questline. It's up on the PTR. The first quest after being sent by Ji is Kiro requesting to be admitted into the Horde, only to be turned down by Baine without even consulting anyone else (with Thalyssra even standing right next to him). It's only after you solve the problems of the people in the room with the help of the Vulpera that they are accepted into the Horde - again without consulting anyone else.

[shoc]

A council is still going to have a person to speak for the others.

Baine is an obvious pick anyways