What rewards does raiding need to make it more appealing?

[Kaver]

I can do 100 hours of M+ a week and I still won't have M.Azshara Staff or triple OP 445 Azerite with perfect traits, then I have another 4 slots of gear reserved to socketed benthic which is simply ultimate bis. Best trinkets - raid. So what exactly I'm going to get from grinding M+? one socketed ring if it happens to TF AND get a socket?

lulz, boy.

I'll tell it plainly right now, with my 6 hours a week of Mythic raiding I am guaranteed to have literally best gear ingame and no amount of TF in M+ can come close to that.

As for "amount of people complaining" - these forums are filled with elitist wannabes who mostly can't do shit really, but bitch about how others get loot they want. It's like with LFR - people sure moan about it here, but in reality it is by far the most used mode of raiding ingame and there are legitimately a lot of people who like it that way, because they don't give rat's ass about this pseudo-elitism going on here.

Quite honestly this whole "maek raidzz mroe rewardingz, TF iz killing uss" is sprouted mostly by Heroic raiders who feel threatened by M+. No wonder, ilvls match there. Mythic raider? You have best gear by far hands down already.

Remember the gear from G’huun? xD

[Amerissis]

So with no class sets or tier bonuses coming in Shadowlands initially what rewards do you think blizzard should add to raiding to make it more appealing for both casual and hardcore players? Or do you think raiding rewards are fine as is?

Well, the reasons I don't raid are: elitist jerks, scheduling conflicts (rather, inability to schedule at all), repetitiveness of fights ('farming'), complexity of fights (too many abilities). As you can see, the (lack of) rewards are not in there. There's no reward that would ever get me into raiding anything else then LFR, which does solve all my issues with raiding.

I doubt there are a lot of people not raiding because of the (lack of) rewards.

[Carnagexz]

Yes, they are. It's even in the name of the position.

And hitting on a somebody that doesn't want to be hit on repeatedly definitely is harassment. Also, everything that involves two parties with differing views is a dispute.

You're massively simplifying the situation to fit your arguments and overly focussing on one specific issue. Not every case is severe enough for Blizzard to take action, but may be bad enough to ruin the climate within the guild.

Well to be fair GL/GM isn't an actual job with a contract, it really isn't their job to do that. Now if they want the guild to be successful and a good place to be, they'll do it. But they don't HAVE to.

But the issue is also, that a lot of people want GM/GL to be their parent in disputes that they easily have the tools to solve. Look at all the effort people have spent talking about how they were victimized, when just doing /ignore or block would of taken fraction of the time. And circumventing that is bannable offense btw, because it perfectly falls within Blizz's definition of harassment. The way these things SHOULD be handled is:
Guy A Harasses you => You /Ignore Guy A, He uses alt or other means to harass you => Report to Blizz and his account gets suspended/banned. Don't BS about them not doing anything, because they do. Talking stuff won't get them banned right-away, but still contacting the person after you blocked they will get them disciplined.

As for "What if its guild-mates/Raid Mates?", you can still /ignore and block them. There are NO RULES in any guild and/or raid saying that you should just TAKE harassment.

On top of that, I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that someone would join a guild where 50% of members would be harassers. Unless its a guild ran by inmates of max-sec prison who were somehow allowed to play or something. All of that is just people making excuses for being negligent/lazy/unwilling to do a simple word command. Again in an online environment being a victim is a choice, you really can't give me a single scenario where the end result would be to just "take it", you can always do something about anything.

People need to take responsibility for their actions and inactions, I understand that people nowdays are spoiled by helicopter parenting and expect someone else to be their parent when something is unpleasant, but sitting and crying "I'm a victim woe is me" is the real victimization. Empower your self through action.

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Raiding is too time consuming to be popular. And unfortunately the hardcore crowd spends a lot of time hating on the entry level raiders to realize that *Those* are the people they've been asking for. And making their lives hard by removing things from their accessibility will just make raiding even less enticing.

But I dunno, maybe as someone said it's better to just cater to the vocal minority and lets the game go so that the 5% of the player base feels happy.

[barrsftw]

Untransmoggable gear until the next expansion

[AcidicSyn]

Make mythic gear 20% better than the best possible gear from lower difficulties, including forging.

This. Except I would do it by giving mythic gear additional effects that only work inside of mythic raids. Mythic gear should be better than all other PvE gear, but a mythic world first raiders gear shouldn't be capable of outshining a glad in the arena.

(The inverse would be acceptable too. Have special effects on PvP gear that only works in BG/arena/warmode to give that gear the edge over pve gear in those circumstances etc)

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Normal and heroic are overshined by easier content ATM, and it's not good, why do Heroic raiding when a +10 is less work and easier?

Maybe similar to what I said about specific effects? IE: Instead of higher stats, you start getting gear with special effects that only work inside of mythic+?

[Carnagexz]

It's an issue that the type of gameplay of hardcore raiding does not appeal to the general player base. (It never has) They already got the BIS, already got the titles, achivs, transmogs and etc.

Face it, it'll always be a small niche and thats that, no amount of reward, short of paying irl money, will get hardcore raiding to be any more popular.

[Kralljin]

If you want consistency then make up your mind instead of admitting you enjoy the aberration bonus while thinking the benthic bonusses are bad... It's not 'no reason' when the game goes out of its way to give you one for more interesting gameplay.

I said "conceptual", which means in that case that i like the idea of "hey, this belt does something special", but Blizzard essentially subverts that special concept by saying "oh, but only there".

Because that bonus would obviously also be useful in other areas of the game, Nazjatar / EP isn't the only place with Aberrations.

Compare it to the "Gives X AP / SP against Y" effect in Classic, that bonus only works against a certain type, but it works everywhere, whether you're in DM,MC or EPL.
Which is totally okay in my view, applying the current Blizzard logic onto classic would mean that for example a trinket that gives you AP / SP against Undead only works in Strat / Scholo / Plaguelands.
Whereas in Classic, it also works on Undead in ZF (because Mage solo farming is a thing) or DM West, that's a cool thing, why should an item designed to be good against X not be good against X everywhere?

Classic is consistent there, BfA isn't.

[Bunzai]

Bring back valor points and increase the amount you gain per boss in higher difficulties. Make Valor points able to purchase new gear with increasing points for higher Item level gear and make gear from raids upgradable. Make valor points also able to purchase transmog sets, pets and mounts. But transmog sets has a boss requirement for purchase similar to arena rating that is unobtainable after the raid tier but appears in the BMAH 2 years after (I have a belief that nothing should be unobtainable in an online game because of new players).

[kaminaris]

1. As you can see by the amount of people complaining about it, its an issue.

2. It really, really is not rare at all. Believe me, if you do 6 hours of m+10 grinding a week instead of 6 hours of mythic raiding, the amount of titanforged gear will blow your mind. I can not remember the last time I finished a +10 or higher and not at least ONE person in the group got a titanforged piece (even if he didn't needed it)

1. I don't see any significant amount, only a fraction of a fraction of playerbase (fraction of forum posters, and forum posters are super small slice of playerbase).

2. Yes it is really really rare. Just because you got lucky couple of times doesn't mean its not rare. Thing is, the higher bonus the less chance. So +15 is about the same rarity as warforged back in mop, and +25 is about the same as thunderforged. Max cap titanforge? Practically unobtainable and if you happen to get one, go to lottery.

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What are you talking about, I can get better than mythic quality loot from any difficulty

Go ahead, I wonder how long will it take you to get it )))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I bet you won't be able to outgear average mythic raider before 8.2 comes out without stepping a foot in mythic raid.

[Aggrophobic]

So with no class sets or tier bonuses coming in Shadowlands initially what rewards do you think blizzard should add to raiding to make it more appealing for both casual and hardcore players? Or do you think raiding rewards are fine as is?

Better loot. Simple as that.

[kaminaris]

T
The only reason I stopped doing endgame raiding is because the prestige felt lost when cross realms were added as well as transmogrify and I no longer felt the physical connection to every person on the server, and that they were "badasses"

That is literally reverse what needs to be done, open cross realm mythic for everyone if we still want to even have mythic mode. It's getting super hard to keep up rooster already (we did 3 guilds merge recently to even continue raiding)

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I have a belief that nothing should be unobtainable in an online game because of new players

That is one good point, didn't read about valor points cause I don't think it would change anything at all.

BUT, killing of content to make people e-peen higher is the dumbest thing blizzard does. Like removing mage tower.

[Zeusy]

That is literally reverse what needs to be done, open cross realm mythic for everyone if we still want to even have mythic mode. It's getting super hard to keep up rooster already (we did 3 guilds merge recently to even continue raiding)

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That is one good point, didn't read about valor points cause I don't think it would change anything at all.

BUT, killing of content to make people e-peen higher is the dumbest thing blizzard does. Like removing mage tower.

Did you just ignore the last part of what i said? I said keep raiding for cross realm in order to not have that happen. "remove cross realm for anything but LFG/LFR" would imply still allowing raiding cross realm, as i further reinforced that point when i said "this will allow people to still raid cross realm".

seems its very true people just ignore what people type all over forums online now.

Whole reason why I would suggest removing cross realm for non raids is because it raises the prestige of the rewards of cosmetics and rewards and makes more motivation to actually care to get the mythic gear if you have a tangible hierarchy of items on a server only. A major part of why people play MMOs and RPGS is to have a community, and with that you create a system where you can raise up through the rankings of prestige in a community.

If you kill half the realms and force transfers then you would have a bunch of high populated realms and no low or mediums, which also helps to fill guilds as well.

[Carnagexz]

Did you just ignore the last part of what i said? I said keep raiding for cross realm in order to not have that happen. "remove cross realm for anything but LFG/LFR" would imply still allowing raiding cross realm, as i further reinforced that point when i said "this will allow people to still raid cross realm".

seems its very true people just ignore what people type all over forums online now.

Whole reason why I would suggest removing cross realm for non raids is because it raises the prestige of the rewards of cosmetics and rewards and makes more motivation to actually care to get the mythic gear if you have a tangible hierarchy of items on a server only. A major part of why people play MMOs and RPGS is to have a community, and with that you create a system where you can raise up through the rankings of prestige in a community.

If you kill half the realms and force transfers then you would have a bunch of high populated realms and no low or mediums, which also helps to fill guilds as well.

Thats actually a valid point, though I doubt they'd do that because of the sensational headlines that'd arise of "Wow merging servers." I think thats one of the reason why they've been so reluctant of merging ghost town servers.

[Weeps]

Raiding should have the best gear possible for PVE.

M+ should have gear designed to help 5 man dungeon runs (ie: set bonus activates only in dungeons). M+ gear is BiS for M+.

What killed me in BfA was that I could gear up as a heroic raider w/o setting foot in a raid or M+. This told me, "Why raid? You can farm the mog next expansion or two."

[Thetruth1400]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that very few people are having fun just playing the game, and your post seems backs that up. I don't remember getting any rewards for playing Warcraft I, II, or III, but I played each multiple times all the way through, as well as tons of custom maps on BNet, just because I enjoyed playing them. No one had to offer me rewards. Is there nothing Blizzard can do to make people want to play WoW or want to raid because playing WoW or raiding is fun, or is the only option that you have to either "reward" or "force" people to play it?

That's a different style of game, where the reward was the achievement of finishing a level and learning more story. It's like reading a book or watching a tv show / movie more than once; you enjoy it so you do it. Just because the reward isn't a physical (or digital) item that is seen as an upgrade doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Likewise, like I said, WoW is a different style of game. WoW is a loot treadmill game by its very design. It has to have rewards for that very reason. Yes, people play WoW and raid for the fun, but that fun only goes so far.

Could you honestly tell me you would sit there and play Warcraft I, II, or III weekly every week to completion and still get the same enjoyment out of it on week 24 as you did week 1 if they added in nothing new? I don't think so.

[Ange]

Raiding should have the best gear possible for PVE.

M+ should have gear designed to help 5 man dungeon runs (ie: set bonus activates only in dungeons). M+ gear is BiS for M+.

What killed me in BfA was that I could gear up as a heroic raider w/o setting foot in a raid or M+. This told me, "Why raid? You can farm the mog next expansion or two."

Heroic today is the normal of the past. If you got carried without gear in heroic, thats not worth mentioning. You could allways carry dead weight on NORMAL too.

Blizzard should have stayed with the FLEX naming N/HC/M is clearly missleading. There is allways just 1 hard difficulty and 1 lesser, everything else is just grey.

[Onikaroshi]

Heroic today is the normal of the past. If you got carried without gear in heroic, thats not worth mentioning. You could allways carry dead weight on NORMAL too.

Blizzard should have stayed with the FLEX naming N/HC/M is clearly missleading. There is allways just 1 hard difficulty and 1 lesser, everything else is just grey.

You speak of it from the eyes of a mythic raider. Heroic is end game for a lot of people (as was normal back in the day), but there's no reason for them to even bother anymore when they can just get geared up not even setting foot in it.

Many people will NEVER touch Mythic for various reasons, for me it was the removal of 10 man heroic in favor of 20 man mythic, i prefer small groups and would jump right back in if they added a 10 man option again.

Blizzard is devaluing anything below the top end.

[Molis]

It need to be things people enjoy collecting like pets, mounts, toys, transmog items, and do not make them available anywhere else in the game.

[Th3Scourge]

Go ahead, I wonder how long will it take you to get it )))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I bet you won't be able to outgear average mythic raider before 8.2 comes out without stepping a foot in mythic raid.

Actually you can easily outgear or have mythic raider equivalent in 8.2 when 7 slots are already either pre-determined or obtainable via vendor. Possibly easier than ever

3x 445 vendor azerite,
3x 425 benthic pieces, 4 on orgozoa and za'qul
Heart of Azeroth

All you then need is 7-8 pieces, which if you did at least 1 mythic +10 per week guarantees at least a 440 roll. Hell you can just spam M+ and get some decent rolls.

The only thing you can't get is mythic azerite, which may or may not be BiS depending on class and spec

So really, the only differing factor is CE, mounts and titles. Which is fine because that's motivation enough for me, but removing WF/TF is a step in the right direction of making higher end raiding more appealing.

[kaminaris]

Actually you can easily outgear or have mythic raider equivalent in 8.2 when 7 slots are already either pre-determined or obtainable via vendor. Possibly easier than ever

3x 445 vendor azerite,
3x 425 benthic pieces, 4 on orgozoa and za'qul
Heart of Azeroth

All you then need is 7-8 pieces, which if you did at least 1 mythic +10 per week guarantees at least a 440 roll. Hell you can just spam M+ and get some decent rolls.

So really, the only differing factor is CE, mounts and titles. Which is fine because that's motivation enough for me, but removing WF/TF is a step in the right direction of making higher end raiding more appealing.

Do it first, then speak.
Removing TF/WF is step in wrong direction.