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  1. #461
    -No Part 2. Once you finish Part 1, you can fly. This means you're grounded for a month or so and have done your lion's share of the story and open world content. At this point flying would be fine.

    -Would be cool if Pathfinder was justified by a questline rather than "you got achieve, you can fly now". For BFA for example you, I dunno, clear out opposite faction flyers from your skies. In Legion you destroy Felbat nests. In Shadowlands you attune to the winds of death or something. Doesn't need to be anything super fancy, but at least give a story reason.

    -Remove it for legacy content. It's silly that a new or returning player can't fly from levels 90 to 120. I had a friend who was encouraged to play WoW because, in part, of the freedom of movement granted by flight, but he was disheartened to learn that he couldn't do that anymore past Mists if he didn't grind his ears off. He quit soon afterwards.

  2. #462
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    One thing I found interesting is that in the interviews about Shadowlands, Blizzard said it would use "a variation" of Pathfinder which implies something might be changed. Personally I hope its one part - even as someone who doesn't mind being on the ground, I think spacing it out nearly a year between 2 parts is a bit unnecessary.
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  3. #463
    Herald of the Titans Alex86el's Avatar
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    my alternative would be this:

    if you finish all the "zone storylines" and the "main storyline", then you unlock it.

    they have already ruined the game with flying, lets just go straight to the point.
    no timegating and no routine chores for rep.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    As previously mentioned, Blizz has clearly stated that the alternative to Pathfinder is that new xpacs having no flying whatsoever, at any point in time. Ion said during WoD development that the team regrets ever implementing Flying into the game because, in their opinion, it has been a detriment to the game. They openly said WoD and future xpacs weren't going to have flying, which sparked a massive debate over the future of flying in the game, and blizzard proposed Pathfinder as an alternative. Essentially, half of the xpac would be restricted to ground mounts only, requiring everyone to play the game in what they feel is the properly designed way, and the back half would open up flying (to some degree, i.e. Argus).

    It's fine to not like it, but it's rather foolish to think they will suddenly begin to unlock flying a few weeks/months into the expansion. If they were even do something such as releasing Part 2 in X.1, they would make it something so absurdly grindy (talking literally months worth of grind here) that you would wish for it be the usual 8.2 Revered/Storlyine stuff again. Knowing the actual alternatives, I'm just happy we have the system we currently do.
    Also Ion said:

    Q: Why add flying at the last moment? Personally I like the game more without it. Why the sudden change of heart?
    A: This was a hard decision and cynicism about flying "makes me sad". The whole team made the decision, and there were/are people on both sides of the issue. When 6.2 was up on the PTR, we decided we needed to make a decision. The consensus at the time was No Flying. After that, we heard feedback about the word "never" being a very powerful word. Taking something valuable away from players made us reconsider the decision. Lore: We were murky on our communication about flying and we're going to try and do better about that in the future. It's not that we didn't care, it's that we were talking intently about the issue and it wasn't my or anyone's place to talk on behalf of the group. Saying "we're still talking about it" would have been the wrong thing to say if we'd ultimately decided to leave flying out.


    ------

    Hazzikostas goes on to acknowledge that many players still want flying mounts. He says the development team at Blizzard worked for a long time to come up with a new method of enabling flying without "compromising the excitement of ground-based exploration."
    He and others said this was just because of memories in the game + ground exploration that artists take so much time to do. If you could have a different approach, and a changed pathfinder, that didn't compromise this "exploration" without time gating, this would be even better.

    I don't care if i need to grind that much, I couldn't care less about the grind. I just don't want after exploring whole zones and wanting to fly over them, to be still on the ground for a year.

    It could be in better terms and balanced between the players and the team of blizzard.

    I don't think it's that hard to understand that some people like this feature a lot, and they make it painful to just give us 1 year later.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2019-11-13 at 12:33 AM.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Simply the game is better different, and often more simplistic without flying.
    Fixed that for you.

    WoD and BfA are in competition for the title of worst expansion ever. Legion basically used the Illidan and iconic artifacts as a "break in case of emergency" stopgap to bolster it. All under the umbrella of the "No-Flying" philosophy. Even if we consider Legion as an improvement, that's still 2 to 1 weak expansions using this approach to the game. How is that considered "better"?

    I've made this argument in several other threads, but it bears repeating: The No-flying approach and philosophy for WoW represents an overall weakness in the game design. It's using a formula by rote instead of innovating. It represents a laziness and weakness that prefers to avoid meeting design challenges in preference of cranking out copy/paste content, and fobbing it off on the players as some sort of amazing artwork that they MUST be forced to appreciate by limiting freedom and movement.

    I, and others, have broken down exactly why this is, and people like you keep repeating the "it's better without" or "blizzard said so" without providing any supporting evidence or arguments other than copy/paste versions of something Blizzard posted or said in an interview that doesn't add up.

    You REALLY need to stop letting Blizzard tell you how to think, and what to expect. Come to your own conclusions. Think for yourself. Look at what blizzard is ACTUALLY doing, and not the spin they put on it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    One thing I found interesting is that in the interviews about Shadowlands, Blizzard said it would use "a variation" of Pathfinder which implies something might be changed. Personally I hope its one part - even as someone who doesn't mind being on the ground, I think spacing it out nearly a year between 2 parts is a bit unnecessary.
    Given that the shadowlands is a mythical, fantastical environment not constrained by the normal rules of consistent physics and geology we see in the "real" world...it's entirely possible Blizzard could finally do a zone-by-zone unlock of flying. If each zone is placed in its own separate instance, or separated by fatigue walls or bottomless chasms like in TBC, you don't have the normal challenge of trying to explain why your flying mount suddenly stops working because it crossed a line on a map.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    He and others said this was just because of memories in the game + ground exploration that artists take so much time to do. If you could have a different approach, and a changed pathfinder, that didn't compromise this "exploration" without time gating, this would be even better.

    It could be in better terms and balanced between the players and the team of blizzard.
    The biggest problem I see is that they've clearly stopped even trying to get better at the open world. They're just cranking out expansions using the exact same formula over and over. You can see other areas of the game getting attention, like M+, raiding, and even Mage-Tower like challenges. All instanced content that Ion understands. But the open world, something he clearly does NOT understand, is left by the wayside.

    And as cool and interesting as many features in Shadowlands appear to be, as far as I've seen the open world will just be more of the same. Things like Nightmare Visions in 8.3 are just reskinned invasions, which is something from legion. World quests and world bosses are the same as they've always been. There's no innovation at all, just reskinning assets.

    And the saddest part is that they really, honestly believe that what they're delivering in terms of open world content is "exciting", even 8 months after every ounce of it has overstayed its welcome. I don't know how that conversation went inside Blizzard, but I would LOVE to sit in on the next one for Shadowlands and poke holes in their logic.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2019-11-13 at 12:40 AM.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Fixed that for you.
    Geez dude, this could be the most egregious example of you deciding other people's opinions are invalid. I'm almost impressed.

    WoD and BfA are in competition for the title of worst expansion ever. Legion basically used the Illidan and iconic artifacts as a "break in case of emergency" stopgap to bolster it. All under the umbrella of the "No-Flying" philosophy. Even if we consider Legion as an improvement, that's still 2 to 1 weak expansions using this approach to the game. How is that considered "better"?
    WoD and BfA are competing with Cataclysm for that title, the expansion that leaned most heavily on flight for the open world content. And personally I found MoP to be the expansion I wanted to play the least, a big part of which was due to the dailies being designed around flying and being a cruise-and-snooze borefest.

    <snip>

    Rest of your post can be casually dismissed as it looks like your usual "I'm right, everyone else's opinions are wrong, people who disagree are blindly following Blizzard who are lazy" crap.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post

    The biggest problem I see is that they've clearly stopped even trying to get better at the open world. They're just cranking out expansions using the exact same formula over and over. You can see other areas of the game getting attention, like M+, raiding, and even Mage-Tower like challenges. All instanced content that Ion understands. But the open world, something he clearly does NOT understand, is left by the wayside.

    And as cool and interesting as many features in Shadowlands appear to be, as far as I've seen the open world will just be more of the same. Things like Nightmare Visions in 8.3 are just reskinned invasions, which is something from legion. World quests and world bosses are the same as they've always been. There's no innovation at all, just reskinning assets.

    And the saddest part is that they really, honestly believe that what they're delivering in terms of open world content is "exciting", even 8 months after every ounce of it has overstayed its welcome. I don't know how that conversation went inside Blizzard, but I would LOVE to sit in on the next one for Shadowlands and poke holes in their logic.
    BfA is literally the alive version on how bad you can go implementing old features and open world into a new expansion that you lose all the progress from previous one and feel it's a continuation of a expansion but with a few-less-important-features and messed up theme mixtures, when the previous one was just "Legion" and they have delivered.

    What went bad (in my point of view)

    > Legendaries changed for neck.
    > Mission tables less relevant (could have been removed even if it's not relevant)
    > Artifact weapon class abilities that we were used to use and lost on the process
    > World quests and stuff that in Legion would serve more purpose than in BfA
    > Removing council loot to personal from end of Legion and bringing to BfA
    > Removing Tier sets
    > Leveling feeling backwards
    > Trying to add traits as compensation of artifact, and add essences
    > Less fluid classes abilities with GCDs

    I could be here all day, talking about stuff they changed or removed that made this expansion be bad. But since this is a pathfinder subject i will just stop here.

    Continuing on that subject, nazjatar feels to me like Argus.
    Such a nice place it could have been, but mobs everywhere, annoying and not an interesting world and quests, disappointing.

    Also Nazjatar is terrible to walk on too, that made me want flying so bad, that i finished up my rep in 3 days even not having much time to grind, - well thankfully darkmoon faire was up too, to help me with that.

    And so on, so on. Indeed they could just provide a better open world, to make us want to actually be on the ground, but how it is, it's not that fun.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2019-11-13 at 01:21 AM.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Also Ion said:

    Q: Why add flying at the last moment? Personally I like the game more without it. Why the sudden change of heart?
    A: This was a hard decision and cynicism about flying "makes me sad". The whole team made the decision, and there were/are people on both sides of the issue. When 6.2 was up on the PTR, we decided we needed to make a decision. The consensus at the time was No Flying. After that, we heard feedback about the word "never" being a very powerful word. Taking something valuable away from players made us reconsider the decision. Lore: We were murky on our communication about flying and we're going to try and do better about that in the future. It's not that we didn't care, it's that we were talking intently about the issue and it wasn't my or anyone's place to talk on behalf of the group. Saying "we're still talking about it" would have been the wrong thing to say if we'd ultimately decided to leave flying out.


    ------



    He and others said this was just because of memories in the game + ground exploration that artists take so much time to do. If you could have a different approach, and a changed pathfinder, that didn't compromise this "exploration" without time gating, this would be even better.

    I don't care if i need to grind that much, I couldn't care less about the grind. I just don't want after exploring whole zones and wanting to fly over them, to be still on the ground for a year.

    It could be in better terms and balanced between the players and the team of blizzard.

    I don't think it's that hard to understand that some people like this feature a lot, and they make it painful to just give us 1 year later.
    Their issues with flying were a bit more than what you put it to be. They felt it had a massive negative impact on WPvP and made all the ground mounts in the game obsolete (at the time). They felt that flying only existed at that point because it just became a habit. The exploration thing was more than just seeing the pretty things artist made, it was about exploitative gameplay:

    "While there was certainly convenience in being able to completely explore the world in three dimensions, that also came at the expense of gameplay like targeted exploration, like trying to figure out what's in that cave on top of a hill and how do I get up there."

    Look at BFA and Legion, and some of the rares, chest, or other hidden things that are reach in not so obvious ways. Flying can and does trivialize many of those things, they are not wrong about it. For them, allowing flying makes all of those pointless. All of these things combined put them in a place to initially feel like flying should just be removed from the future of the game. Thankfully, they listened to the community that flying needs to exist to some extent, and made a compromise, which came in the final patch for WoD. Now, instead of getting flying in X.3, we get it X.2, which isn't that bad in my opinion. It's far better than never getting it at all.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    Their issues with flying were a bit more than what you put it to be. They felt it had a massive negative impact on WPvP and made all the ground mounts in the game obsolete (at the time). They felt that flying only existed at that point because it just became a habit. The exploration thing was more than just seeing the pretty things artist made, it was about exploitative gameplay:

    "While there was certainly convenience in being able to completely explore the world in three dimensions, that also came at the expense of gameplay like targeted exploration, like trying to figure out what's in that cave on top of a hill and how do I get up there."

    Look at BFA and Legion, and some of the rares, chest, or other hidden things that are reach in not so obvious ways. Flying can and does trivialize many of those things, they are not wrong about it. For them, allowing flying makes all of those pointless. All of these things combined put them in a place to initially feel like flying should just be removed from the future of the game. Thankfully, they listened to the community that flying needs to exist to some extent, and made a compromise, which came in the final patch for WoD. Now, instead of getting flying in X.3, we get it X.2, which isn't that bad in my opinion. It's far better than never getting it at all.
    I can see where you're going, i know and recognize the implications but it's just a game and a good one and have so much potential, and they hide their potential into something useless and put the blame on flying as if flying was the evil thing.

    I don't think that's the case, cause even one year on the ground i can tell you right now, that even those chests you're talking about and rares, were absolutely trash.
    The chests contained little resources, basically nothing important, so much that i ignored all the chests, and if i opened some it's because i love opening chests, not because of what it has inside. To this day i still go after chests (Silken treasure) in Kalimdor cause it drops orb of deception and i can sell it on AH and even gave some to my friends. I see a rare on the map in bfa and i barely cared, to me it was just some stars on my minimap, they didn't drop anything appealing and they were there some minutes again after killed - that sounds more like an elite to me than a rare, the open world is obsolete. The places are beautiful to see, but it's not the flying fault this things are boring and not appealing. Everything changes when you're considered a champion instead of an adventurer, you start doing favors and "oh dear you're the best, i'm making a quite habit of this, thank you again champion", when before it was "that little cave contains some mysteries, come find it with me". All this stuff that i experienced and explored on the ground just didn't catch me much. They need to change their stuff, flying is not the problem, it's their problem.

    In WotLk i didn't struggle ever to appreciate ground content or ever i felt it was a problem, i didn't play mop and people say it was one of the best expansions too, when it had just "get max level and fly".

    The problem is on the content and open world magnetism to the player.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2019-11-13 at 01:54 AM.

  10. #470
    remove rep grind and time gating. allow flying the moment part 1 is complete, if you must have a part 2 and since it tends to involve new content of some sort - restrict flying in that content until part 2 is complete, but no more waiting for over a year for flying in general to become available. the moment you complete zones? you can fly. alternately - allow flight at max level regardless of zone completion, with fee per character - especially if its done like in wrath, letting us buy a flight book that allows alts to fly couple of levels before max. I would honestly probably prefer THAT. bring it back to how it was in BC, wrath, etc. yes, i would rather pay for each and every character I level but be able to fly on them immediately and complete zones at leisure becasue I want to how I want to than this railroaded business we have now.

    P.S. world pvp argument can go to hell. plenty of us play on pve servers BECAUSE we never cared for world pvp to begin with.

  11. #471
    I can’t wrap my head around Blizzards decision to remove flying in the first place in WOD (before pathfinder was conceived). To what detriment did the game face and it’s future success by leaving flight as-is in the game? None that so can think of. There was nothing innovative or game changing that took its place when they were toying with the idea of taking it out completely. Problem is, ever since that decision and the “compromise” of Pathfinder they’ve rung a bell that they can’t unring. Only now, pathfinder is worse in its current iteration of timegating it. And now they’ve alienated players like me who won’t buy another expansion or resub while pathfinder exists as it does now. I seriously doubt the long term health of the game would suffer by allowing flight after Pathfinder Part I. Blizzard being who they are thinking they know best, I won’t support the game under the current design philosophy as it pertains to flight.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    I can see where you're going, i know and recognize the implications but it's just a game and a good one and have so much potential, and they hide their potential into something useless and put the blame on flying as if flying was the evil thing.

    I don't think that's the case, cause even one year on the ground i can tell you right now, that even those chests you're talking about and rares, were absolutely trash.
    The chests contained little resources, basically nothing important, so much that i ignored all the chests, and if i opened some it's because i love opening chests, not because of what it has inside. To this day i still go after chests (Silken treasure) in Kalimdor cause it drops orb of deception and i can sell it on AH and even gave some to my friends. I see a rare on the map in bfa and i barely cared, to me it was just some stars on my minimap, they didn't drop anything appealing and they were there some minutes again after killed - that sounds more like an elite to me than a rare, the open world is obsolete. The places are beautiful to see, but it's not the flying fault this things are boring and not appealing. Everything changes when you're considered a champion instead of an adventurer, you start doing favors and "oh dear you're the best, i'm making a quite habit of this, thank you again champion", when before it was "that little cave contains some mysteries, come find it with me". All this stuff that i experienced and explored on the ground just didn't catch me much. They need to change their stuff, flying is not the problem, it's their problem.

    In WotLk i didn't struggle ever to appreciate ground content or ever i felt it was a problem, i didn't play mop and people say it was one of the best expansions too, when it had just "get max level and fly".

    The problem is on the content and open world magnetism to the player.
    Chests and rares took a noticeable dip in quality in BFA compared to WoD and Legion, no doubt about it. It was just an example of something they brought up during WoD. Don't get me wrong, I would more than love to be able hit max level in a new xpac and have flying for 10k, or to be told I just need to get Loremaster for the xpac. Pretty sure the majority of players feel that way. It's just, blizz sticks pretty hard in their ways, and asking for them to allow full on flying within a few months (X.1) is extremely unlikely, and hoping they could allow it within the first week or 2 is being naive.

    The most concession you'd be likely to get out a blizz is something like the jetpacks in Mechagon (something that will come by now and then that gives you brief flight) or a rare drop/expensive craftable that allows you to fly for 10 minutes. The fact of the matter is, no matter how you or I feel about their reasons for not liking flight, the just don't like it the way we do. I think if you really want to be able to fly that bad without waiting for X.2, you should instead push for something like I mentioned above, which is the kind of thing blizz is far more likely to do, than campaign for the nigh impossible.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Geez dude, this could be the most egregious example of you deciding other people's opinions are invalid. I'm almost impressed.



    WoD and BfA are competing with Cataclysm for that title, the expansion that leaned most heavily on flight for the open world content. And personally I found MoP to be the expansion I wanted to play the least, a big part of which was due to the dailies being designed around flying and being a cruise-and-snooze borefest.

    <snip>

    Rest of your post can be casually dismissed as it looks like your usual "I'm right, everyone else's opinions are wrong, people who disagree are blindly following Blizzard who are lazy" crap.
    cata was fun. cata is only remembered as a not so good expansion cuz of Dragon Soul

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Well we can agree to disagree. What is good for you, it's not good for me
    Except I'm talking whats good for the game, even if it is a little detriment to me personally (it literally is to everyone, as it slows down travel), it makes the game better and more immersive
    Quote Originally Posted by Destronoma View Post
    Yes, because running through a dozen mobs and getting dazed off of your mount is such an exciting mechanic.
    That's just one part, and yes it is more exciting than flying over dozen mobs being safe all the way.

  15. #475
    Looks pretty locked in for Shadowlands from the sound of the interview bluntness in the answer they gave. In fact, from the look on everyone's face on the panel not a one of them gave a single fuck about it. Which pretty much sums it up on if it will change anytime soon. So the whole question just comes across as whining.

  16. #476
    PathFinder -- Generating the same exact 50+ page thread with the same exact arguments by the same exact posters since 2015.

    It's almost like clockwork.

    OT: It ain't broke so Blizzard isn't fixing it.

  17. #477
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    If they changed pathfinder to were all you had to do was unlock loremaster in that zone to fly there i bet 90% of people would be happy with it.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Fixed that for you.

    WoD and BfA are in competition for the title of worst expansion ever. Legion basically used the Illidan and iconic artifacts as a "break in case of emergency" stopgap to bolster it. All under the umbrella of the "No-Flying" philosophy. Even if we consider Legion as an improvement, that's still 2 to 1 weak expansions using this approach to the game. How is that considered "better"?

    I've made this argument in several other threads, but it bears repeating: The No-flying approach and philosophy for WoW represents an overall weakness in the game design. It's using a formula by rote instead of innovating. It represents a laziness and weakness that prefers to avoid meeting design challenges in preference of cranking out copy/paste content, and fobbing it off on the players as some sort of amazing artwork that they MUST be forced to appreciate by limiting freedom and movement.

    I, and others, have broken down exactly why this is, and people like you keep repeating the "it's better without" or "blizzard said so" without providing any supporting evidence or arguments other than copy/paste versions of something Blizzard posted or said in an interview that doesn't add up.

    You REALLY need to stop letting Blizzard tell you how to think, and what to expect. Come to your own conclusions. Think for yourself. Look at what blizzard is ACTUALLY doing, and not the spin they put on it.
    The game is actually far more simplistic WITH flying, as all you do is fly over every obstacle. One can't argue against that, successfully that is.

    The weaknesses WoD and BfA have/had are not connected to no flying. With WoD people had problem with there being no content outside of raiding and by no content they mean relevant content for their gearing progress, if they had flying the same problem would've risen far sooner. BfA people have problem with class and GCD desing, again no connection to no flying.
    Personally Legion and BfA are the worst expansion, followed by Cata. Legion and BfA because of the rather endless grind of AP and Cata for adding LFR - none of which is connected to flying.
    Sure we can start to argue about flying being bad because of the drop from WotLK to Cata in subscription numbers, in Cata you got flight immediately and oh look how it plummeted - makes sense to make no connection arguments right?

    Blizzard tried to innovate on flying in TBC and WotLK, people hated it because that meant flying wasn't safe. Like how many times in Legion did you hear people whine about Druid and Hunter class halls? A lot is the answer, and those were like the only places where you couldn't just afk fly over. Theres no "weakness or lazyness" involved, just combination of player preference with their design preference. You get to play the game as it was designed and in a patch you get to fly over and not worry about anything.

    I have broken down to you a million times why no fly with current flying design is better for the game, what you've done is actually ignore me because you had no counter arguments and thats the reality of things. You're free to like flying for whatever reason you have, the simple fact is that the game is better without it.
    If you were to iterate flying to have challenges like ground mounts have, by making then compete in effectiveness then people would whine about flying again because it isn't as effective and safe.

    You really need to stop thinking that whatever you THINK is the only right option, specifically when what you think is based purely on feelings rather than facts. Literally take a second, think things through without feeling emo about it and come to an actual conclusion based on facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rips View Post
    cata was fun. cata is only remembered as a not so good expansion cuz of Dragon Soul
    Cata was fun, so were every other expansion. Cata had its ups and downs, one being making the instances way too easy after actually being hard. Some people didn't like flying during leveling as it made other classes, like druids, very op. Some didn't like Vashj'ir and playing under water. Then theres whole 10vs25 man difficulty debate, LFR, Dragon Soul etc.

    People like different things and for most Cata is on the bottom half of expansions.

  19. #479
    I have better things to do than arbitrarily grind reputation doing world content that has absolutely no benefit to my character's growth. Level cap should = Flying. No ifs ands or buts. Do not disrespect me or other players' time.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    The game is actually far more simplistic WITH flying, as all you do is fly over every obstacle. One can't argue against that, successfully that is.

    The weaknesses WoD and BfA have/had are not connected to no flying. With WoD people had problem with there being no content outside of raiding and by no content they mean relevant content for their gearing progress, if they had flying the same problem would've risen far sooner. BfA people have problem with class and GCD desing, again no connection to no flying.
    Personally Legion and BfA are the worst expansion, followed by Cata. Legion and BfA because of the rather endless grind of AP and Cata for adding LFR - none of which is connected to flying.
    Sure we can start to argue about flying being bad because of the drop from WotLK to Cata in subscription numbers, in Cata you got flight immediately and oh look how it plummeted - makes sense to make no connection arguments right?

    Blizzard tried to innovate on flying in TBC and WotLK, people hated it because that meant flying wasn't safe. Like how many times in Legion did you hear people whine about Druid and Hunter class halls? A lot is the answer, and those were like the only places where you couldn't just afk fly over. Theres no "weakness or lazyness" involved, just combination of player preference with their design preference. You get to play the game as it was designed and in a patch you get to fly over and not worry about anything.

    I have broken down to you a million times why no fly with current flying design is better for the game, what you've done is actually ignore me because you had no counter arguments and thats the reality of things. You're free to like flying for whatever reason you have, the simple fact is that the game is better without it.
    If you were to iterate flying to have challenges like ground mounts have, by making then compete in effectiveness then people would whine about flying again because it isn't as effective and safe.

    You really need to stop thinking that whatever you THINK is the only right option, specifically when what you think is based purely on feelings rather than facts. Literally take a second, think things through without feeling emo about it and come to an actual conclusion based on facts.

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    Cata was fun, so were every other expansion. Cata had its ups and downs, one being making the instances way too easy after actually being hard. Some people didn't like flying during leveling as it made other classes, like druids, very op. Some didn't like Vashj'ir and playing under water. Then theres whole 10vs25 man difficulty debate, LFR, Dragon Soul etc.

    People like different things and for most Cata is on the bottom half of expansions.
    Who you think you are to tell Legion is the worse expansion? I'm sorry but you have been saying so much bad stuff that i can't take you seriously anymore.
    Saying Legion was the worse, when i barely see someone agreeing or anywhere saying that, just because it's what you think, opinions apart, to tell why flying is bad, you can give your reasons but once you say an expansion is the worse because of flying, i can't take you seriously.
    Not trying to be rude or anything but the reason i got salty about this is: You are anti-flying, that's all i'm seeing here, and if you are so anti-flying this is not the place for you cause you're not going to keep quoting everyone with the same answers right? I don't think that's necessary. If you are going to find a way to always dismiss and implicate with everyone's personal choices that doesn't include thinking flying is bad and that legion is the worse expansion, it's better for you to unfollow my thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    If they changed pathfinder to were all you had to do was unlock loremaster in that zone to fly there i bet 90% of people would be happy with it.
    I don't know about others, but i would be.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2019-11-13 at 06:50 AM.

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