Why do people want to change the game so much ? (elves, wow, and the community)

[Feanoro]

"I hate elves for some reason, don't understand why others do, and they're what's ruining the game. Not completely changing the gameplay from a slower paced multiplayer RPG to a single player action game, not seeking out and gutting immersion, not the story being handled by the dregs of fanfiction writers who glorify their waifus, not idiotic designers who fuck up classes every other expansion, nope. It's those people who like elves, damn them."

Cool topic.

[Syrah-the-Old-One]

Cool constructive post too, but I already know some people didn't agree with what was obviously my personnal opinion.
I was talking about the Warcraft story in general, not limiting myself to WoW or its game mechanics.
But it's nice of you to share your opinion upon the latter I guess ?

[Xilurm]

Well, you're 13 years too late on this subject by the looks of it.

[Powerogue]

"And then came BC, a first punch to the gut for me. High elves, (not so) cleverly renamed as Blood Elves, probably to fit the theme of the faction they ended up in : the Horde.."

I mean no.



I'm sympathetic with the notion of there being too darn many elves (four races is more than enough, we don't need bloody high elves as a fifth race option!) just correcting the detail. They were Horde-bound before WoW even was a thing.

In fact wait a minute,

Scooby Do Gang: Let's unmask this guy! *pulls of Syrah's avatar*

[Dellis0991]

Then don't play the game then, ain't nobody holding a gun to your head.

[Syrah-the-Old-One]

In fact wait a minute,

Scooby Do Gang: Let's unmask this guy! *pulls of Syrah's avatar*

I lol'd IRL and cannot deny the similarities. Touché !

[Syegfryed]

ah, i see you are a man of culture as well.

the exactly same reason i enjoyed wacraft it was because the game was not revolved around petty puny pretty elves doing all the stuff being better than everyone at everything.

Sadly, the elf fanbase is one of the worst who exist, and grow strong by the Peter jackson filmes, and they demand more and more, nothing is enough until the game history is full of then, with the false pretext of "all races should get focus!1!!".

Its a scientific fact that any fantasy/history, get/become worse by the amount of elves on it, even worse if they are those those all powerful entities who save the world.

The good thing is at lest the blood elves are not the generic shit cliche of elves, and thats why high elves should never be a thing

To me, it feels like someone playing Super Mario Bros, and complaining about the fact that they can't play as Sonic the Hedgehog... or someone playing TESO and wanting to see the orcs take a bigger place in the story

.

And if you actually say they need to focus a bit on other races, they will fuck you up man

once i said blizz should actually give a bit more focus on the horde orcs, neglected since MOP, and at least put an orc to lead things in orgrimmar and oh boy so many angry elves

The whole High Elf fandom made me ask myself this question. They are clearly passionnate about it, but I find it weird that they don't accept Blizzard's negative responses to their requests of playable High Elves in the Alliance

Like people said, they are the flat-earth people of wow, nothing more to say

[Devilyaki]

Just the master race taking the rightful place at the top.

[Syrah-the-Old-One]

Just the master race taking the rightful place at the top.

...aaaand thanks for the easy example about how it's an overused trope.

Also thanks, Syegfryed, I feel less lonely about this

[Feanoro]

Just the master race taking the rightful place at the top.

Elf haters are so easy to trigger, aren't they?

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Cool constructive post too, but I already know some people didn't agree with what was obviously my personnal opinion.
I was talking about the Warcraft story in general, not limiting myself to WoW or its game mechanics.
But it's nice of you to share your opinion upon the latter I guess ?

Cool constructive OP. "I hate elves, blame the fans for Metzen's decisions, and ignore the lore and real life reasons they exist in the game. Why do people want to ruin things by liking things I don't like?" Heck, you even say you loved WC2 and ignore that Quel'thalas and those elves existed in it.

[Syrah-the-Old-One]

Elf haters are so easy to trigger, aren't they?

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Cool constructive OP. "I hate elves, blame the fans for Metzen's decisions, and ignore the lore and real life reasons they exist in the game. Why do people want to ruin things by liking things I don't like?" Heck, you even say you loved WC2 and ignore that Quel'thalas and those elves existed in it.

They did, and I had no problem with it, as I said in my OP, because it wasn't a part of the main storyline. Elves were mysterious and elusive back then, and I liked it better that way. It felt good to see that even if they were around, they weren't one of the main focus of the story like it's the case in stories like TES or LOTR for instance. It felt different from the basic RPG tropes.

Also, I didn't "blame" anyone for anything.
I simply tried to pinpoint and understand the period when the Warcraft franchise went from being about a world where magic was scarce and dangerous where elves were a reclusive and rare race, as stated before, to a High Fantasy setting where magic is commonly overused and mostly without any consequences for the most of it. And the overpresence of elven races are symptomatic of that change imo.
I didn't "ignore the reasons why they exist" as you said, I simply didn't like the fact that Blizz chose to focus more and more on them instead of keeping up with their original course. But, again, it's simply my opinion and I don't expect you to share it.
I mean, nowadays, every expansion has at least one elf-related zone, even if it barely fits the lore of the expansion (looking at you, Ardenwalde), how is it not beating a long-dead horse by now ? The only "recent" time they did go back to a part of what made the Warcraft universe appealing to me (and others) was during WoD, and for lore reasons only. (well, actually I didn't mind the whole garrison thing but it's another topic for another debate)

Also, trying to antagonize me or being unnecessarily aggressive about the subject won't help in any way.

[Tarba]

Totally. Not insulting tho.



Things do evolve, you're absolutely right. But it needs to feel natural, and some of those elven races' introductions sure didn't feel natural in warcraft's original story.



They do have their fair share of culpability, but my original question was about people choosing to play a game with a clearly defined universe only to change it drastically.

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I did, and truely didn't understand their reaction. Mainly because, as I said, elves never felt like a central point of the warcraft universe prior to BC, basically.
Also I confess that I didn't exhaustively go through the whole 400+ pages of the High Elves fanthread, but I'm a regular lurker nonetheless.

Warcraft 3
I don't see why Inshould add more than that because it's fucking obvious but let's go.
Night elve campain in rc.
Night elve campain in ft.
Blood elve campain in ft.
Illidan Tyrande Mafurion Maiev Kaelthas Lady Vasj Sylvanas.
They were more appealing than retarded Grom, or whiner Cairn, humans became dead or undead. The living ones were depicted as assholes.

[Feanoro]

Also, I didn't "blame" anyone for anything.

TL;DR : Why do people want to change the very DNA of the original Warcraft Universe so badly ?

You were saying? The decisions were all Metzen's and the writers'. Your post appears to blame people who wanted BElves and later the High Elf group (and I have no dog in that fight, thanks), rather than addressing the people who actually MADE the changes. As to why, unless there's some behind the scenes write-up, we can only speculate.

I mean, nowadays, every expansion has at least one elf-related zone, even if it barely fits the lore of the expansion (looking at you, Ardenwalde)

Considering that Shadowlands is a bigger asspull than VElves, clearly for the purpose of writing without being "constrained" by the prior lore, this criticism is a bit weak.

Also, trying to antagonize me or being unnecessarily aggressive about the subject won't help in any way.

I'm answering what appeared to be a bait/blame thread. If you say that's not your intent, fine. It simply came off that way right from the subject line.

[MrLachyG]

well I mean to be fair, Kael'thas renamed them to Blood Elves in WC3. so you're wrong when you say it was in BC. As for your main argument, well you could say the same for Tauren, Undead, Gnomes, Worgen, Draenei, Goblins, Trolls and almost any additional race if you are wanting your experience to be solely based on WC2.

Games change, they evolve, new races are added - fairly standard for an MMO as old as WoW. if you don't like it, don't play it

[Sezh]

This is why people who complain about Vulpera are hilarous to me. They fit the horde perfectly.

The worst race to have ever been added to the horde happened back in BC. That's what people should complain about.

[derpkitteh]

op, i got a setting for you that i think you'll enjoy. it's called the elder scrolls, and there's a few guys you'd be interested in.

as to the premise of the op though, the original warcraft was just a bad warhammer game repainted because blizzard couldn't get the license for warhammer. it can't remain tied to that legacy forever.

[Moonrage]

It's okay to dislike elves but to make a whole ass thread complaining about how they ruined the game is a bit much. A lot of people just like Elves in general, Blood Elves are the most popular Horde race and Night Elves the second most popular Alliance race.

[tankbug]

This is why people who complain about Vulpera are hilarous to me. They fit the horde perfectly.

The worst race to have ever been added to the horde happened back in BC. That's what people should complain about.

I guess I'm a warcraft boomer, but I think that the additions to the Horde, part from the Zandalari, have been uninteresting and unappealing for long-time fans of the series. Where are my ogres, goddamnit?

[Sezh]

I guess I'm a warcraft boomer, but I think that the additions to the Horde, part from the Zandalari, have been uninteresting and unappealing for long-time fans of the series. Where are my ogres, goddamnit?

Sure, people are certainly allowed to think that it's more fun to get new races that fans have known about for a long time. I think elves don't fit the horde theme at all. If I had power to make it happen, I would remove all elves and dead people from the horde. Pandas as well. Vulpera fits perfectly however.

[VladlTutushkin]

Yeah, I know, that title wasn't very inspired.

First let me give you a bit of insight : I personally HATE elves. Always did, no matter what fictional universe. That's precisely why, back around 1995, I fell instantly in love with Warcraft 2 : Tides of Darkness. Finally I had found a game where the story wouldn't revolve around long-eared demigods. It felt rough. It felt dirty. It felt bloody. And my young mind loved it.
I grew older as a Blizzard fan, but mostly playing the Warcraft franchise. Starcraft was cool and all, but it never really clicked. A matter of taste probably. And Diablo was weird in my opinion. Didn't click either.

Long story short : I always loved Warcraft because it was centered around Orcs and Humans, with little to no elf significant presence, except for the human archer unit. The elves did exist in this universe, but weren't the central point around which everything revolved.

Then came Warcraft 3, and the elven lore was a bit expanded. I accepted it. After all, how would you build a world in fantasy settings without at least referencing this race or something similar. Those were almost copypasted upon classic DnD concepts, so I could feel familiar about them.
WoW finally released, and I was at first relieved to see that only Nelves were playable. It felt logical, and relevant to the Warcraft universe I fell in love with. Elves were a rare race, and even if they once ruled the world, they were now on the brink of extinction after the events of Warcraft 3...

And then came BC, a first punch to the gut for me. High elves, (not so) cleverly renamed as Blood Elves, probably to fit the theme of the faction they ended up in : the Horde..
Wait... weren't those supposed to have been OBLITERATED by the scourge ? and weren't the few survivors fleeing to outland ?
I decided to swallow back my anger, and to try to see things on a more pragmatic level : some people wanted to play those, and it would add some different flavor to the Horde.. I ended up accepting it (after quite a long time to be honest)..

Now, the more WoW's story unfolded, the more the two "original" protagonist races of the game were progressively forced to share the focus with those filthy elves I couldn't stand. Nelves, Belves, Nightborne, Void Elves, Sea Elves (naga, duh), and so on...

I still could kinda understand it. After all, not everyone shared my opinion, and lots of people do love elves in their fantasy games.
But then... Why did they play WoW in the first place ?

To me, it feels like someone playing Super Mario Bros, and complaining about the fact that they can't play as Sonic the Hedgehog... or someone playing TESO and wanting to see the orcs take a bigger place in the story.

The whole High Elf fandom made me ask myself this question. They are clearly passionnate about it, but I find it weird that they don't accept Blizzard's negative responses to their requests of playable High Elves in the Alliance.

The Lore, the Devs, the games.. everything and everyone told them that the Blood Elves were actually the remains of what once were High Elves, but they weren't satisfied. And to appease them we got Void Elves.. which were too much different from their fantasy. I particulary find those to be an insult to what the Warcraft universe once was.





TL;DR : Why do people want to change the very DNA of the original Warcraft Universe so badly ?

Long story short - Blizz just keeps shoving NPC high elfs at Alliance any chance they can and that makes people constantly ask for them. Its like opening an old wound again and again.