Diablo 4 to feature microtransactions

[Rendark]

Then you're missing the point, because the RMAH was an attempt to support Diablo 2-style loot mechanics formally. The RMAH didn't ruin anything, it just underscored what had always been user-unfriendly game design.

And the fact that blizzard made money off the AH is what a coincidence?

[Beet]

1.10 came out when? many years later sure, but after the wild success of WC3 and it's expansion. Huge influx of revenues. Seems to be the common thread you guys seem to ignore, willingly I might add, is money comes in, support goes on. No support like that happened prior, but once Blizzard had another success on their hands it did.

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Loot 2.0 made it better. If the RMAH was still in place when loot 2.0 came out the game would still have improved greatly.

There was many patches prior to 1.10 that gave D2 updates just like 1.10 did. And no it wasn't many years later after the success of WC3 and its expansion. Not to mention, 1.11 took just as long as 1.10 did to come out and it was in fact well after the success of WC3 so that point fails here. Also you seem to be unaware of how popular Diablo 2 was. I mean you know games can get by based off their base sale alone don't you? Practically every single game other than MMORPGs did that until the late 00s. Also if we're going to go by other game's successes being enough then bam. We got WoW, HS, etc now so there we go. Bundles of cash are still pouring in so I think Diablo 4 can survive without microtransactions. It amazes me honestly to even see players debating that they want microtransactions in a game. Next thing I know i'll see people asking for Blizzard to kindly charge us a monthly fee to play. Maybe even raise WoW's sub cost because why not?

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And in D2, the loot was exactly the same, because you were expected to trade it with other players. The RMAH was an attempt to formalize a system that had developed informally during D2's lifespan. It wasn't really a change in the base concepts of loot rarity from D2 at all.

Yeah and it's a damn shame they killed trading in D3. Trading was literally my second favorite thing about Diablo 2. Next to PvP. Both of which were missing in D3 so it's a wonder I despised the game. Seriously its so weird that Blizz dislikes trading. It was such a popular thing in WoW. You could go from rags to riches trading your way up. I would come back to D2 at various times and get chipped gems, trade 40 for an SoJ, then trade the SoJ for something else and next thing I'd know I would have a decked out barbarian. Trading was amazing.

[Coldkil]

TIL cosmetics in D4 is considered content. However MMO-Champ has always told me that stuff like this in WoW is not content.

I would counter that the PoE shop is not done the right way from a players perspective even though I have no issues with in game shops. I am not a big time player or Fan, but really there is no good looking items in game. And yes, I feel the store gear looks like shiny shit, it is still leaps and bounds better that anything you could get in the game. I know that is the only way for CCC to fund the game so I get it.

I don't expect it to be like that in D4 sine Blizzard has a long history of having good looking items in game and in the shop. I also am not convinced we are getting armor and weapons nor tons of flashy/glowy stuffs due to the nature of the art direction in D4. I expect, and can be wrong, items like what we have in D3, pets, wings, banners, and add in mounts and/or mount accessories. When they mentioned trading, Blizzard said they wanted players to play the game to get the best items, not go around finding other who are trading them. So I doubt they will be selling sweet armor or weapons.

They're not going to. Honestly, most of the stuff in PoE shop is extremely over the top flashy stuff that i don't like for the most part, barred some armor sets and some spell effects. I'm not really looking for this kind of thing.

Oh, and cosmetics is NOT content for me. Content is stuff i play or in which i have activites to do, until doll dress-up is considered an activity (while i take my sweet time in customizing my character and how it looks). Transmog is just a nice addition.

[Fitsu]

Does No Mans Sky hit the target close enough for you? A game That was $60 upfront and has massive continued support for no additional cash. A small company of a few people who can put out large content updates for free and isn't a billion dollar corporation.

Is that a close enough example for you?

I suppose but that is a very unique situation because the game was a massive commercial failure at launch, having almost none of the things originally promised which caused a huge backlash meaning in order to get on their feet they had to put a lot of work into bringing the game up to the standard they originally promised.

If Diablo 4 were to launch and be a hot mess with next to nothing to do then yes I would expect a lot of additional work on it without having to pay more into the game but if it launches as a finished product in it's own right then I wouldn't expect constant content updates for free.

[Beefhammer]

They're not going to. Honestly, most of the stuff in PoE shop is extremely over the top flashy stuff that i don't like for the most part, barred some armor sets and some spell effects. I'm not really looking for this kind of thing.

Oh, and cosmetics is NOT content for me. Content is stuff i play or in which i have activites to do, until doll dress-up is considered an activity (while i take my sweet time in customizing my character and how it looks). Transmog is just a nice addition.

That content wasn't necessarily directed at you, but all the others who are anti MTX claiming so.

[Coldkil]

That content wasn't necessarily directed at you, but all the others who are anti MTX claiming so.

Yeah, i got that. Just wanted to express my position in more detail.

EDIT: i'm actually anti-MTX aswell. If i could, i would get rid of all of them. However i also realize how the only way to make it happen is that everyone suddendly stops partaking in them - which is just surreal and basically an utopia.

So, i just aim to have them implemented in a fair way so they don't impact the gaming experience. I don't get people going "but there is a skin shop so the base skins MUST LOOK LIKE ASS". Hell, we didn't even see anything about that.

[ErrandRunner]

Microtransactions are a part of gaming now, whether you like it or not. Better start getting used go that inconvenient fact or you will be unpleasantly surprised when playing 90% of new games.

[Beefhammer]

There was many patches prior to 1.10 that gave D2 updates just like 1.10 did. And no it wasn't many years later after the success of WC3 and its expansion. Not to mention, 1.11 took just as long as 1.10 did to come out and it was in fact well after the success of WC3 so that point fails here. Also you seem to be unaware of how popular Diablo 2 was. I mean you know games can get by based off their base sale alone don't you? Practically every single game other than MMORPGs did that until the late 00s. Also if we're going to go by other game's successes being enough then bam. We got WoW, HS, etc now so there we go. Bundles of cash are still pouring in so I think Diablo 4 can survive without microtransactions. It amazes me honestly to even see players debating that they want microtransactions in a game. Next thing I know i'll see people asking for Blizzard to kindly charge us a monthly fee to play. Maybe even raise WoW's sub cost because why not?

And by the time 1.11 came out Blizzard had a runaway success in WoW. WoW was pretty much funding all current and future games at this point and no, 1.10 was the biggest gameplay changing patch by far, everything else were small changes to drop rates, itemization, gold drops and balance changes.

Face it without revenues these changes would not be made. Plain and simple.

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I suppose but that is a very unique situation because the game was a massive commercial failure at launch, having almost none of the things originally promised which caused a huge backlash meaning in order to get on their feet they had to put a lot of work into bringing the game up to the standard they originally promised.

If Diablo 4 were to launch and be a hot mess with next to nothing to do then yes I would expect a lot of additional work on it without having to pay more into the game but if it launches as a finished product in it's own right then I wouldn't expect constant content updates for free.

Big difference is Sony was pumping money to Hello Games and partially funded it. The game sold incredibly well and for a small studio with very little overhead box sales were more than enough to fund support.

[Spiel]

i remember when people said the same thing about WoW's MTX. They were right finally, right? Right? WoW does have MTX where you can buy gear and shit, RIGHT?

Well, there is a healthy amount of boes, materials and such that you can buy for gold in AH, which, you can buy from blizz themselves with real money. You can buy leveled characters too. So...Not directly, but absolutely the same effect.

[quras]

I suppose but that is a very unique situation because the game was a massive commercial failure at launch, having almost none of the things originally promised which caused a huge backlash meaning in order to get on their feet they had to put a lot of work into bringing the game up to the standard they originally promised.

If Diablo 4 were to launch and be a hot mess with next to nothing to do then yes I would expect a lot of additional work on it without having to pay more into the game but if it launches as a finished product in it's own right then I wouldn't expect constant content updates for free.

Then my points stands. If a small, mediocre company can run a game and give it massive updates (doesn't matter the circumstance of it's launch as you are still getting free major updates and they are making little to nothing cash wise) then it's more than possible for a billion dollar company to do it as well. MTX not needed just as they have done in the past and gotten along just fine.

[Dorp]

This is an unwarranted sense of entitlement, not an actual argument.

You're confusing "full price" in the sense of "the price has not been discounted in a sale in some way", with "full price" in the sense of an all-inclusive price tag.

They are not the same thing.

If you choose to go on vacation, and pay "full price" for your hotel stay, that does not mean food and drinks are included, unless it explicitly stated the price was "all-inclusive" and specified exactly that.

The "full price" of a game like D4 is also the "base price" for the game. It's the minimum investment. It comes with only the basics, no extras. The idea that $60 magically entitles you to all content is . . . completely fucking ridiculous. It's a tantrum, not an argument.

no, it's an argument.
For example, back in my day, I could go to the shop, spent $50 to get a game, and get everything with it. If devs made more, they'd usually make a sequel or expansion, and those extras would be added to those.
These days, they give you like 40% of the game, and sell the parts they cut out back to you. It's suckers like you, that support this crap, that is ruining it for everyone else.

Also, I'm from NZ, so I have to pay around $130 for new games (which is around $82.60USD), I'm already paying more, and getting less.

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You know, 3D models are not free either? And the people operating the Servers are also not free. And the Servers are ALSO not free.

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To Quote you:

... money will go back into the game.



Back your claim up with verfied numbers.
How much % of the Revenue generated by the MTX in D4 goes to which department, and how much % of that is Profit?



Name one game that only sold 40% of the game.

Guess what: You dont decide when a product is finished. Or which Content a game is going to have.

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OUTRAGOUS! I paid 60$ 7 years ago, I´m Entitled to everything they do.

my 40% is an over exaggeration for effect, but any games that have big day 1 DLC, which has been a lot of big titles (spiderman ps4), that's stuff that should have been added to the main game, but instead was cut, to sell back to you. I'm hating this trend, and want to see it gone.

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Do you know that the Chef in a Restaurent also does things unrelated to the Dish you ordered while it is less busy.
Do you expect to get these things for free also?

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Yea, I´m about done now with this Topic.

Its just that that part of the Community is so damn Infuriating.
I accidentally scrolled down to the Comments on PatchNotes, and all the QQ about no Free Content. And the whining that D3 doesnt get any worthwile development.

Game doesnt make any Money -> People whine about no Development put into it.
Game gets MTX for ongoing Revenue -> People whine about game wanting money to continue Development.

Depends, in your example of the chef, what extras is the chef doing, that isn't listed under what's normal in the menu?

[Beefhammer]

no, it's an argument.
For example, back in my day, I could go to the shop, spent $50 to get a game, and get everything with it. If devs made more, they'd usually make a sequel or expansion, and those extras would be added to those.
These days, they give you like 40% of the game, and sell the parts they cut out back to you. It's suckers like you, that support this crap, that is ruining it for everyone else.

Also, I'm from NZ, so I have to pay around $130 for new games (which is around $82.60USD), I'm already paying more, and getting less.

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my 40% is an over exaggeration for effect, but any games that have big day 1 DLC, which has been a lot of big titles (spiderman ps4), that's stuff that should have been added to the main game, but instead was cut, to sell back to you. I'm hating this trend, and want to see it gone.

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Depends, in your example of the chef, what extras is the chef doing, that isn't listed under what's normal in the menu?

So a few cosmetic items is now considered major day one DLC. Because that is what most games have. Typically it's preorder bonuses and some other things. Many you guys are something. First it's cosmetics are content, and now they are major DLC.

[Kumorii]

Minor changes? You are joking right? Patch 1.10 redefined the entire game. In fact D2 lost over half it's playerbase according to Blizzard themselves when Patch 1.10 came out because it was so game changing. Please don't speak on what you didn't experience or even look up.

It was huge, but wasn't much new content...it was changes to current content. Except ubers, which arguably wasn't really new content either since it's beefed up old bosses.
There is a difference between updating current content and making new content. Only time Diablo 2 got anything new content wise was in the one expansion they made, which cost you money.

[iosdeveloper]

I'm scared of how many people accepted MTX in what 2-3 years?
It's not convenience or cosmetics! You have to make baseline game suck donkey ass for microtransactions to work.

If that's the pace at which masses accept bullshit we are all fucked =/

[Fitsu]

Then my points stands. If a small, mediocre company can run a game and give it massive updates (doesn't matter the circumstance of it's launch as you are still getting free major updates and they are making little to nothing cash wise) then it's more than possible for a billion dollar company to do it as well. MTX not needed just as they have done in the past and gotten along just fine.

I feel like your missing my point, my point being that a company needs some sort of incentive beyond "because we want to" to put this work into a game. The incentive that "small indie dev team" had was that when their game released it lacked a large majority of the originally promised features and had they left it in it's barebone state the game probably would have received a large amount of refunds on top of the company losing a lot of face with it's target audience. The work they've since put into the game has helped regain some of that faith, increased sales and allowed them to continue to the announcement of an expansion.

Effectively what i'm saying is they didn't put all this effort in out of kindness but out of necessity to survive and thrive as a business, just like every company does. No company is going to give you years of additional content for free out of the kindness of their hearts it always has to make business sense to do it because that's how business works. Now if Diablo 4 is to release as a full game then to expect constant content updates at a rate which would rival the likes of PoE without expecting them to have some sort of monetization in my mind is entitled to the point of madness.

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I'm scared of how many people accepted MTX in what 2-3 years?
It's not convenience or cosmetics! You have to make baseline game suck donkey ass for microtransactions to work.

If that's the pace at which masses accept bullshit we are all fucked =/

What? Why? Explain please.

[keldarepewpew]

Consumers are to blame, as much you all act outraged mtx sells.

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I'm scared of how many people accepted MTX in what 2-3 years?
It's not convenience or cosmetics! You have to make baseline game suck donkey ass for microtransactions to work.

If that's the pace at which masses accept bullshit we are all fucked =/

Thats complete bullshit. Dota 2 one of the best games i ever played implements mtx. Most people who played dota 2 at sny point wouldnt consider it a failure.

[mrgibb]

Awesome, this means that player who wants to buy cosmetics can buy cosmetics, and people who don't want to buy cosmetics won't have to buy cosmetics.

It's a win/win for everybody.

[Beet]

And by the time 1.11 came out Blizzard had a runaway success in WoW. WoW was pretty much funding all current and future games at this point and no, 1.10 was the biggest gameplay changing patch by far, everything else were small changes to drop rates, itemization, gold drops and balance changes.

Face it without revenues these changes would not be made. Plain and simple.

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Big difference is Sony was pumping money to Hello Games and partially funded it. The game sold incredibly well and for a small studio with very little overhead box sales were more than enough to fund support.

And if that’s the case then do tell me why the same time between these patches? You’re grasping at straws bud. It took them just as long when they had no money as it did when they had money. Not to mention your own point is killing your argument. If it’s all thanks to other games successes then boom we got WoW, HS, and OW2 soon so no need for any microtransactions ever in D4 for the exact reasons you stated

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It was huge, but wasn't much new content...it was changes to current content. Except ubers, which arguably wasn't really new content either since it's beefed up old bosses.
There is a difference between updating current content and making new content. Only time Diablo 2 got anything new content wise was in the one expansion they made, which cost you money.

Sure but diablo 2 was a PvP game at its core. If you only did PVE in that game it was garbage. You got the sick gear to get your PvP on. So the changes made were HUGE to PvP. Unfortunately the changes also killed the game. Literally by blizzards own admission over half the playerbase quit when 1.10 came out. People didn’t like stupid shit such as every class getting to teleport thanks to nigma. I’ll always cherish my 1.09 memories though.

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I'm scared of how many people accepted MTX in what 2-3 years?
It's not convenience or cosmetics! You have to make baseline game suck donkey ass for microtransactions to work.

If that's the pace at which masses accept bullshit we are all fucked =/

You got it dude. I’ll never get the playerbase who are not just comfortable accepting less but happy for it. Guess you can’t blame the publishers for treating them like cattle when they act like it.

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Awesome, this means that player who wants to buy cosmetics can buy cosmetics, and people who don't want to buy cosmetics won't have to buy cosmetics.

It's a win/win for everybody.

lol no it isn’t. It would be a win/win if we got it for free. You know like before games used to be. Crazy fucking idea though I know.

[Kumorii]

Sure but diablo 2 was a PvP game at its core. If you only did PVE in that game it was garbage. You got the sick gear to get your PvP on. So the changes made were HUGE to PvP. Unfortunately the changes also killed the game. Literally by blizzards own admission over half the playerbase quit when 1.10 came out. People didn’t like stupid shit such as every class getting to teleport thanks to nigma. I’ll always cherish my 1.09 memories though.

Sure, people can leave for whatever patch or reason... Doesn't change the fact that Diablo 2 didn't get much content without paying for it, aka expansions.

[Jujudrood]

Think of it like this.
You bought a sandwich off the menu.
Turkey, bacon, lettuce, tomato, mayo.
But, you also want cheese.
It's not part of the menu item, it's an additional item.
Do you NEED cheese? No.
Do you WANT cheese? Yes.
So, you pay a little extra for cheese.
Others may not pay extra for cheese.

That's what a cosmetic micro-transaction is: extra cheese.
If you want it, you pay for it.
Capitalism.