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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Who’s going to be honestly surprised come shadowlands if Velonara goes “for the dark lady” and back stabs some idiot that took her at her word?
    Absolutely no one of any decent intellect.

  2. #122
    High Overlord Aleloron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    This doesn't necessarily mean anything.

    Multiple "Former Loyalists" are seen in Org after the situation. To everyone who walks by, they comment how they were 'fooled' by the Dark Lady. If you're someone who accepted the eye, you were told by them "For the Dark Lady. Always..." in whisper as you walked by.

    Thus, even with her saying this in person, there's no reason to believe they're on our side.
    Holy crap. I still have the Eye and I’ve never noticed this! Kinda cool.
    Don’t ask me to explain my idiocy; I’m in my early 40’s and still don’t understand it myself.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Seradi View Post
    I mean as a Forsaken if my options are to remain with Sylvanas, as the dialogue here indicates many do, or follow Voss/Calia/the Horde I'd stick it out with Sylvanas. Or just do what some of the other Loyalists are doing and lie about my loyalties until everything becomes clear. Is it really abandonment if she's still got Forsaken with her?
    Well, if the Loyalist Forsaken still consider themselves such rather than just Sylv's forces. In any case it seems diehard Loyalists are few and far between and it's not like Sylvanas has use for them at this point.

    Regarding following Voss/Calia/Horde, I'm choosing them willingly at this point despite being a Loyalist in BFA. This because everything worked out in the end. I was a Loyalist, because there was good grounds to be one; the cause was about survival or even Horde dominance over Alliance, while the Honor-side only cared for palatable conduct. War of Thorns was sanctioned, even enjoyed, by everyone, including Saurfang, so the Honor-side being all pissy about methods later on felt shortsighted. Then they started actively hamstringing Horde's war-effort, even going to such lengths as killing our own troops. The war had an atmosphere of all or nothing; we either see this through and win, or be crushed by the Alliance. In that sense I could only choose Sylvanas's side.

    Yet because Blizzard's writers suck everything ended up well and honorably and Sylv was retconned into being an always-evil-always-scheming blackguard who always ever used us instead of having any affability. That sucked and I hate it, but it's something we have to live with if we are to continue with this game. The Horde, such as it is, is in a good, stable place right now. There is no sense in remaining loyal to Sylvanas at this point, especially as it was stated in Blizzcon that there won't be continuation to it in Shadowlands.

    Also, it's already confirmed Calia won't join the Forsaken. It appears she'll more be a visiting celebrity that acts as a mental support for the less strong-willed among the Forsaken.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    the side that was proven right by the intro cinematic of shadowlands.
    Such pity that i am too lazy to save this answer only to show it to you after two years..... i think Shadowlands will be big suprise to you.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    I doubt it. She openly questioned Sylvanas's leadership in the Hunter class hall, including whether or not free will really figured into the equation, and seemed to warm up more to the Horde and Forsaken throughout BFA, much like Lillian. Of the Dark Rangers, Velonara is one of a handful I'd expect was genuine in renouncing her loyalties to Sylvanas, especially with years of service thrown aside as nothing within two breaths, confirming the suspicions she held in the Hunter class hall about Sylvanas's leadership, while the Horde welcomed her back with open arms. She says it best herself: while Sylvanas lamented the Forsaken as being slaves to their condition, she refuses to fall to the same nihilistic worldview, seemingly out of sheer spite.
    The haste with which people produce character arcs where there are none solely to makes this nonsense stick will never fail to amaze. Velonara had no arc in BFA. None to speak of. She had no appearances in BFA save to fight in the Darkshore warfront where she had 0 lines, and as a memory in the elf heritage quest where she also had 0 lines. Then she shows up and renounces Sylvanas like everyone and their dog. She went to Draenor to please Sylvanas specifically, helpfully produced by wowpedia:

    "Velonara was one of Sylvanas' low-ranking rangers, but her success in the Scarlet Monastery during the Cataclysm opened up new opportunities for her. When the Dark Lady asked for volunteers to make the trek into Draenor, Velonara answered without hesitation. Any opportunity to please the Dark Lady is worth the risk."
    The sum of her anti-Sylvanas credentials is her salt over being raised by Sylvanas in Legion, but that doesn't constitute an arc, since she's already there and we never see her journey from Point A to Point B. Her affection for the Horde is never before even alluded to. The only thing that can be said about her is that she comes to her conclusion on her own, putting her head and shoulders above the rest of her pathetic race who need Calia to do it for them. If anything, her sentiment should be more widespread across the regular Forsaken, but far rarer among the Dark Rangers, since at least a portion of them were in her confidence.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-11-14 at 11:48 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    I doubt it. She openly questioned Sylvanas's leadership in the Hunter class hall, including whether or not free will really figured into the equation, and seemed to warm up more to the Horde and Forsaken throughout BFA, much like Lillian. Of the Dark Rangers, Velonara is one of a handful I'd expect was genuine in renouncing her loyalties to Sylvanas, especially with years of service thrown aside as nothing within two breaths, confirming the suspicions she held in the Hunter class hall about Sylvanas's leadership, while the Horde welcomed her back with open arms. She says it best herself: while Sylvanas lamented the Forsaken as being slaves to their condition, she refuses to fall to the same nihilistic worldview, seemingly out of sheer spite.
    Exactly. I'm not sur why anyone is surprised by Velonara's sentiment if they're on this forum. The hunter class hall mini story arc showed that she was no sylvanas fanatic. That the cold exterior of the forsaken is also a mask that drops.

    Plus her dealings with the dark ranger obsessive blood elf which made her guard drop showed she was still deep down an elf who was trying to live up to what is expected of her as undead.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Artelia View Post
    Such pity that i am too lazy to save this answer only to show it to you after two years..... i think Shadowlands will be big suprise to you.
    i don't really care what the end goal was.

    the methods were not worth it.

  8. #128
    As early as Edge of Night, no actually even before that, when she was pitching her big "we take Lordaeron"-plan to the Forsaken, Sylvanas was disgusted by them. When she jumped off of Icecrown she did not care that Garrosh was using them as cannon fodder. Proclaiming: "Let them perish, I am finished with them."

    The Forsaken and the Dark Rangers especially have deluded themselves into thinking differently, out of desperation. They had no one else to turn to (because Sylvanas told them there was no hope they would be accepted... while Death Knights were meeting with the King of the Alliance and the Warchief to be welcomed) and Sylvanas thus had some useful arrows for her quiver.

    Now where she has chains, she needs no arrows anymore, hence she discarded the Forsaken and Dark Rangers as she did before.

    It is a shame that it took Velonara and the others so long to catch up, but I am glad she did. Now if only the loyalist faction could realize this as well.

    Since the Horde does not exist anymore (at least this much I gather from the forums), she is welcome to join my Velf Death Knight when we go to send the Banshee to the Maw for good.

  9. #129
    well dark lady needs eyes and ears in orgrimmar

  10. #130
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    While they do say "For the Dark Lady, always...", they're mostly saying this as a sign of respect for her, despite her abandoning them and everything like that. It's not like they're just going to hate her in the span of a couple minutes. They'll feel betrayed, yes. But, they're not just going to ignore the fact that she practically gave them a place to call home within the Horde. They're still for her, despite them being on opposite sides. It's a sick little game of "cops of robbers", where the Cops are just robbers that were able to reform. They still respect their former pals, but they're on a new team now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm sorry, but is that Baine thing on your profile actually real? Or...
    It’s on the PTR, yes. Sadly it isn’t photoshopped.

  11. #131
    For the dark lady, always

  12. #132
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    She's a traitor to our Queen then >.>
    5'11 tranny, proud of it, but NOT an sjw.
    Margot Robbie = GOALS

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    It’s on the PTR, yes. Sadly it isn’t photoshopped.
    ...

    No...

    NO! NO!

    NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by A Princess From Norway View Post
    She's a traitor to our Queen then >.>
    And this is why I'm bringing the Ashbringer back. Gonna slay Sylvanas for this.

  14. #134
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Glad to hear those formidable hunters and huntresses haven't forgotten their kinship with their living brethren, the Sin'dorei, too.

    I always felt like blood elf death knights' allegiance would be similarly shared between the Forsaken and Quel'Thalas.

  15. #135
    Weird pick. Velonara was proving herself to Sylvanas pretty much every time she appeared in game for more than a cameo. Even weirder in light of Dark Rangers dying in Darkshore (with Velonara being a part of that campaign) revealing they were briefed by Sylvanas on what waits for them when they die and even that Sylvanas was trying to save them from that or something).


    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    I don't even get why these kind of people didn't immedialty get back to Silvermoon once they were raised in the first palce.
    "Yea Sylvanas turned me into an undead and cursed me, i'm going to follow her".
    WTF
    She did what now? Sylvanas's own necromantic powers were shite prior to her pact with Val'kyr, resulting only in mindless skeletons. And even after the pact she only increased the amount she can create at once. And her Val'kyr only gained the ability to resurrect Blood Elves somewhere around MoP. At the start of Cata they could only resurrect humans. Just so happens Velonara first appeared in the game at the stat of Cata as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  16. #136
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    I can understand Velonara's heel-face turn. She looked up to Sylvanas as a leader and kind of savior figure, only to have Sylvanas pronounce her and the rest of the Horde as "nothing" and abandon them entirely. That's a pretty significant blow to any pedestal. Hard to say if she's being genuine or simply hiding her true agenda behind false loyalty, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually speaking truly.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by DesoPL View Post
    Sylvie you seriously screwed up your followers.
    C.Golden you seriously screwed up every major char in WoW followers

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I can understand Velonara's heel-face turn. She looked up to Sylvanas as a leader and kind of savior figure, only to have Sylvanas pronounce her and the rest of the Horde as "nothing" and abandon them entirely. That's a pretty significant blow to any pedestal. Hard to say if she's being genuine or simply hiding her true agenda behind false loyalty, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually speaking truly.
    Personally think it's further forcing of hyping up a rather lame turn of events.

    Also makes previous actions of killing loyalist seem over the top since a single revelation was enough to break the loyalty of beings ludicrously devoted to the cause.

    So now we get a further story where the beings forsaken by their peers and families and apparently existence itself.. get the new and original revelation that someone else forsakes them and suddenly their devotion is broken so they can fall in line with the group of people that literally were acting to kill and destroy them just before.

    Overall it feels like someone just trying to keep certain peaces in play while adhering to a narrative they want to push...

    edit:

    At this point it feels more like shifting existing characters into position and being rather forgetful on "minor" details. Sort of like Jaina and her awareness of her abilities in certain storylines, or maybe forgetting some details that might have been planned but never actually made it through editing... or maybe something edited but events pertaining to the edit not entirely caught.
    Last edited by mickybrighteyes; 2019-11-14 at 03:16 PM.

  19. #139
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    Personally think it's further forcing of hyping up a rather lame turn of events.

    Also makes previous actions of killing loyalist seem over the top since a single revelation was enough to break the loyalty of beings ludicrously devoted to the cause.

    So now we get a further story where the beings forsaken by their peers and families and apparently existence itself.. get the new and original revelation that someone else forsakes them and suddenly their devotion is broken so they can fall in line with the group of people that literally were acting to kill and destroy them just before.

    Overall it feels like someone just trying to keep certain peaces in play while adhering to a narrative they want to push...

    edit:

    At this point it feels more like shifting existing characters into position and being rather forgetful on "minor" details. Sort of like Jaina and her awareness of her abilities in certain storylines, or maybe forgetting some details that might have been planned but never actually made it through editing... or maybe something edited but events pertaining to the edit not entirely caught.
    Individuals do different things, and react differently to the same set of stimuli - it's what makes them individual. When a cult leader's oft-professed prophecies or declarations are shown to be lies or errors, there are always those who see the proverbial light and abandon the cult and those who refuse to believe their leader is in error and double-down on their beliefs. Velonara is apparently in the former camp, whereas other loyalists can be found in the latter camp.

    Velonara herself seems to be a minor Dark Ranger with something of a hero complex as concerned Sylvanas, but had Sylvanas knocked abruptly off that pedestal due to Sylvanas' own proclamations and subsequent cruelty. Subjective story concerns aside, her reaction is realistic enough for a former follower of a charismatic leader, especially when said leader burns those bridges in a spectacular fashion.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Individuals do different things, and react differently to the same set of stimuli - it's what makes them individual. When a cult leader's oft-professed prophecies or declarations are shown to be lies or errors, there are always those who see the proverbial light and abandon the cult and those who refuse to believe their leader is in error and double-down on their beliefs. Velonara is apparently in the former camp, whereas other loyalists can be found in the latter camp.

    Velonara herself seems to be a minor Dark Ranger with something of a hero complex as concerned Sylvanas, but had Sylvanas knocked abruptly off that pedestal due to Sylvanas' own proclamations and subsequent cruelty. Subjective story concerns aside, her reaction is realistic enough for a former follower of a charismatic leader, especially when said leader burns those bridges in a spectacular fashion.
    I think this is still just trumping everything up on Sylvanas and railroading this same drivvle about her outburst. The issue here is that the dark rangers were supposedly clued in on the same shit Sylvanas was concerning the post death and it'd then make sense that some awareness of worthless might pervade their group. But then again, they might have just retconned that bit when they revealed Sylvanas has been doing that since before she allegedly cared about saving her forsaken (per Golden's writing concerning Sylvanas interactions with Garrosh over Gilnean Invasion).

    They're railroading this story worse than a DM who falls back on the old "Rocks Fall everyone dies". The nation of people stereotyped into apathetic psychos somehow are suddenly very emotional and care about things very much at every turn. borderline hive mind cultist tropes are not upturned because the leader was caught in a lie... despite said 'cultists' were in on the events more than everyone else.

    If the likes of Velonara are this easily turned, it then begs to question... what was the point of all the killing and the violence before? Sylvanas' loyalists weren't the ones sneaking around killing their peers but we're labeling them as the evil ones and condemning their actions.

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