As someone who has never understood the appeal of Classic....

[Lilly32]

because Vanilla wasnt really that great. people are just caught up in their nostalgia because for a lot of people it was their first MMO or maybe even video game. I had already been playing UO, EQ, and DAoC when WoW came out so it wasnt all that special. Constant server crashes, garbage specs, terrible PvP system where only basement dwelling neck beards got rank 14, 5 mans that took forever, easy-mode raids. Yes raids were easy mode. Just look how fast they were downed once people actually knew what they were doing. The game didnt really become polished until TBC. Honestly the only cool thing about Vanilla was the AQ event stuff. Most of the Classic fanboys I saw streaming or making youtube videos couldnt have been more than like 8 when WoW was released so no idea what they were hyped for considering they proly never even played Vanilla.

[Sencha]

Is it so hard to understand? Retail WoW is going in the wrong direction and a lot of people are interested in new expansions based on previous model (more RPG, relevant professions, no world quests, etc.)

[Adamas102]

That fact that this is even worth mentioning speaks volumes about the current design team huh?

As people are finding out, there is also a hell of a lot less busywork with past xpacs. You can almost acceptably raidlog classic. That is like 2-5 hours per week.

How is that an admonishment of the current design team?

[kenn9530]

but why do you claim wrath was one of the best?btw i have to mention some of the most fun i have had in wow was in the first years,vanila/tbc and even wrath,as in wrath i rly started playing more hardcore in pvp and pve,but i know that was just personal enjoyment and not reflective of actual expansion quality

wrath introduced the option to do harder version of raids, and achievements requiring a certain gear level so you cant just outgear content, there was not really that much to do in previous tbc or vanilla, in tbc you could at least grind for your netherdrakes so that took a while but the rest of content is the same as any other expansion.

[Greengrim]

Just wanted to point out that splitting the player base across separate servers for each iteration of WoW isn’t necessarily win-win. New additions like expansions and Classic bump up sub numbers temporarily, but they invariably decrease. Even now it’s way too soon to see the effect of Classic in the long run.

In 4 years when WoW is on 10.x, Classic will have had about 2 years of Naxx with nothing else on the horizon. Maybe they’ll have released TBC and WotLK servers by then, but not everyone will want to leave Classic for those. Each iteration would just siphon players from the others.

The player base is not absolutely the same. Do you think Blizzard made Classic for the lolz? Of course not, they made it because they never managed to bring down Nostalgia WoW (private server) but wanted to cash in on the players from there.

[Adamas102]

The player base is not absolutely the same. Do you think Blizzard made Classic for the lolz? Of course not, they made it because they never managed to bring down Nostalgia WoW (private server) but wanted to cash in on the players from there.

Sounds like you missed the point.

Not everyone who went to Classic played in vanilla or on PS’s. Some (perhaps a lot) came from BFA. If they make TBC servers, some players who quit a while back might rejoin, others would come from Classic, and some will come from current WoW. The more retro servers you add, the more players you take from the existing servers.

[clevin]

You're seeing different opinions from different people. I'm fine with Classic as it is. Some people would like to see content developed in a new direction (not TBC). Others tried Classic and hated it, quitting. Some people remembered it fondly and forgot how you'd die a lot more in the early levels or other hassles. Some people never played it and have heard about Vanilla for years... and like Classic as it is. Some didn't play, like Classic but want some changes.

People differ. Not sure why this is hard to understand.

[chrisnumbers]

As someone who has never understood the appeal of Classic....

...I really don't understand all the folk asking for a "Classic+".

What I don't understand is why you made this post at all about a game you don't even like or play.

It just boggles my mind

[Kilee25]

...I really don't understand all the folk asking for a "Classic+". Or those asking to add certain, specific features from retail to Classic. Isn't the entire point of Classic to play the game exactly as it once was, blemishes and all?

Despite the fact that I was one of the people who would roll their eyes at the folk who would act like Vanilla WoW was some sort of Holy Grail of Gaming (and still do), I did actually resubscribe briefly to give Classic a honest shot. I didn't have a decent enough computer and/or internet connection when Vanilla first came out, so I was genuinely curious about what the game was like way back then. I created a couple characters, but ultimately never made it out of any of the starting areas; I missed the amenities and QoL additions of more modern MMOs too much. So, you know what I did?

I shrugged. I logged off. I uninstalled the game, unsubscribed, and went on with my life. I certainly didn't take to any forum, demanding that Blizzard change the game in any way to make it more palatable to me. Obviously, Classic just isn't for me.

Likewise, I can't help wondering if all of the people screaming about changing or adding things to Classic need to realize that maybe Classic never was for them, either. I mean, I've seen threads where people list things like better graphics, transmog, new/more races, etc. and I have to wonder: at what point does the game stop being "Classic"? What exactly makes it "Classic" for you, then? Just the original quests and zones, I guess?

And if there are other things about Classic that you like, but still find yourself wishing for most of the modern ammenities of Retail, maybe instead of attempting to get Blizzard to change Classic into something it never was, ask Blizzard to add some of those things from Classic back into Retail?

It just boggles my mind that some people didn't really stop to think about what they were actually asking for when they joined the chant for Classic. I can't help wonder if a lot of them are younger players who never played Vanilla WoW, and only really want to play because all their older friends and the more popular streamers are doing it.

I cannot speak for other people, but for me, the main issue with the transition from classic to TBC was some of the following things:

1) All of the character progress and work that I'd accomplished in Vanilla was more or less destroyed overnight. I'm mainly talking about gear progression, but also the sense of being special in the world because there weren't many others on the server who had what I had or had accomplished what I had. People knew me on the server. I felt like I had earned that much. The act of new expansions "resetting the bar" destroyed most of that, and after a few expansions kept doing this over and over, the work put in felt increasingly meaningless as time wore on.

2) The transition from 40-man raids down to 25-man raids more or less destroyed my guild. Over half of our guild members left the guild. Good friends who I never saw again. The drama that erupted out of people not getting raid spots or being accused of not pulling their weight etc was extremely traumatic, and I don't think I'll ever completely forget about it and just "move on." I know this sounds overly dramatic, but at the time seeing the guild I was in slowly die was very serious and a big deal to me.

3) I didn't get to finish the raids in Vanilla. Our guild was a few bosses into AQ40 and Naxx40 when TBC hit, and we just dropped everything and never went back and finished them. I felt like there was "unfinished busness" left in Vanilla that I never got to do.

That's the main reasons that I'd like to go back to Vanilla and play. I miss the feeling of being "somebody" on a server, due to feeling like the time I put into the game gave me a sense of earning a place rather than everyone getting "welfared" into it via multiple difficulty levels etc... Then, I enjoyed 40-man raiding more than the smaller scale raiding. And finally, I just want to finish something I started and get a sense of completion and finality.

Apart from all of the above, I was never completely happy with the balance of the game or the way the classes worked. I always wanted to see some class balances and overhauls happen, and the poor gear itemization and so forth I felt was always a big issue especially for hybrid classes. So... absolutely there are a few things I'd like to see made better about the game, as long as the core things that I mentioned stay the same - progression path, large scale raids need to maintain the same feel to them. As long as the integrity of that remains the same, I'd be pleased as punch to get some upgrades in other areas.

[ghays]

That’s about the size of it. I was fine with the game until Cata. Cata and beyond was a downhill slide overall.

- - - Updated - - -

people want Classic+ because of the design ethos and a storyline that's coherent. that's it.

I played WoW the most during TBC, but now in retrospect I know that a few things introduced then led to slow declines in the game overall. Flying; heroic dungeons; tokens for tier gear; smaller raids; quest hubs; dailies. None of them are present in classic, and I miss none of them.

We won't get a Classic+, as much as I'd like it.

- nostalgia will result in more people playing a TBC expansion than continuing to play Classic+
- the current designers and Blizzard employees don't have a Classic mindset; even if they wanted to make classic they couldn't.
- Activision is interested in microtransactions, engagement, and unending growth. A Classic+ merely promises continued subscriptions (perhaps modest growth if they did it well).
- finally, the ego of the current leadership. investment in a Classic+ would be an acknowledgement that the story writing and game design leadership have been headed in the wrong direction for years. won't happen.

We got Classic because of the fumble of 'don't you have phones?' and a gap in their release schedule pointing to declining revenues. Classic was a 'in case of emergency, break glass' maeouver, nothing more.

I'm thankful we have it. Its the most fun I've had in a Blizzard game in a decade. I'll likely stay aboard for the ride all the way through to the end of TBC, then pack my bags and move on for once and for all.

I assume ’Classic +’ would essentially reflect a version of the game set in a separate quantum reality where the dark portal never opened, and the events of TBC never occurred. With new content carrying the storyline in a different direction. As this would take considerably greater resources than just adding Classic TBC p, I agree that it would be very unlikely.

[Yunaqt]

Never thought there are people who want Cata servers lol

Cata raiding was dope, yeah DS in particular was avg. Firelands is still one of my all time favourite raids.

[Dergiab]

Another thread where OP states something controversial to cause a fuss and then never responds to the thread again.

So easily baited.

[keldarepewpew]

Im loving classic praying for no changes

[Jurwi]

...I really don't understand all the folk asking for a "Classic+". Or those asking to add certain, specific features from retail to Classic. Isn't the entire point of Classic to play the game exactly as it once was, blemishes and all?

To you that might be the point.

For people who are asking for a "Classic+" that is not the point.

Yey, opinions.

[schwarzkopf]

Remember the first time you had Macca's 20 or 30 years ago and how you loved it so much.

Now you eat Chinese food, Indian Food, exotic African Dishes and have a wide array of choices.


Classic is going back to Macca's for old times sake

[Shadowland]

I haven't stepped into Classic yet, nor did I play during Vanilla. I tried out Vanilla starting areas on private realms however, but outside that, I started a month after TBC's release, so I have a general aspect of old school WoW. And I played right up to the end of Legion. I have seen and know a lot about this game - through each end-game period - but something about Classic is wonderful... your character feels important, as if it has realism. Your resource and tools matter. I love buffing people, too. There is more as well.

[Ange]

because Vanilla wasnt really that great. people are just caught up in their nostalgia because for a lot of people it was their first MMO or maybe even video game. I had already been playing UO, EQ, and DAoC when WoW came out so it wasnt all that special. Constant server crashes, garbage specs, terrible PvP system where only basement dwelling neck beards got rank 14, 5 mans that took forever, easy-mode raids. Yes raids were easy mode. Just look how fast they were downed once people actually knew what they were doing. The game didnt really become polished until TBC. Honestly the only cool thing about Vanilla was the AQ event stuff. Most of the Classic fanboys I saw streaming or making youtube videos couldnt have been more than like 8 when WoW was released so no idea what they were hyped for considering they proly never even played Vanilla.

This is 100% true and most vanilla players would describe it similar.

I think the people wanted the rapid growing community of vanilla, that never stopped and just accelerated. This could not be reproduced with classic at all. There was never the "80%+ decline of playerbase" in vanilla and people blaming the game, thats why we all see the classic+ nonsense.

Classic is not Vanilla 2.0, its just a marketing boost for retail WoW with a few hundred extra subs from private server players. It doesnt really matter if classic players realize their roles, because its working for blizzard either way.

[rohoz]

because Vanilla wasnt really that great. people are just caught up in their nostalgia because for a lot of people it was their first MMO or maybe even video game. I had already been playing UO, EQ, and DAoC when WoW came out so it wasnt all that special. Constant server crashes, garbage specs, terrible PvP system where only basement dwelling neck beards got rank 14, 5 mans that took forever, easy-mode raids. Yes raids were easy mode. Just look how fast they were downed once people actually knew what they were doing. The game didnt really become polished until TBC. Honestly the only cool thing about Vanilla was the AQ event stuff. Most of the Classic fanboys I saw streaming or making youtube videos couldnt have been more than like 8 when WoW was released so no idea what they were hyped for considering they proly never even played Vanilla.

What's better is that they basically conned themselves into thinking 1 button rotations are the pinnacle of gameplay.

Classic is a living breathing example of both cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. If you want something to work, it'll work. If you make up your mind to enjoy it, you will.

[vsb]

I think that Classic have good things and bad things. For example I love that leveling in Classic is so hard and punishing. When you finally did that quest you're feeling like you achieved something. It's slow and that's good. On retail leveling is very fast and easy, so it does not feel like an achievement, more like a boredom. On the other hand, quest themselves in Classic are bland and many quests are missing (which were added in TBC). Redesigning quests with modern tech would improve questing experience a lot. Adding missing quests is even more so.

Dungeon in Classic are too easy as well. For example in retail leveling dungeons are much harder. So that's one aspect that I would like to be addressed as well. Dungeons are supposed to be a little bit harder.

Talents in Classic are complete and utter trash. The mere fact that Fury tree is preferable for Warrior Tank is garbage. TBC talents were way better. And with modern game design and experience they could design even better talent tree.

Visuals in Classic are not stunning. While I'm not suggesting to re-use retail assets, because retail just uses different approach to graphics design, improving Classic textures and models would definitely make game better.

Some mechanics like spell batching is just not needed anymore and does not make game more fun. It's good to have it in Classic, because it should feel authentic. But few people would miss that in Classic+.

Basically what Classic+ might be is some kind of fixes for bad things in Classic and improving upon good things in Classic. Also with additional content.

That said, I don't see Classic+ happening. Demand is not there and costs are prohibitively high.

[Sorrior]

Honestly maybe blizzard should look at licensing out wow to private servers/let folks make servers in classic and classic+ style officially