Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

That would be nice... but I do not think they explained the new skins and tattoos for Wildhammer dwarves customizations being given to the Bronzebeard, nor all the the types of different and even 'wild' trolls skins being assigned to someone who had originally been created as a troll from the Darkspear tribe.

because now we kinda have the confirmation that skin tone alone, is not enough to be allied race,those are just v ariation whitin the race

So if they do not excessively care for those races, they could do the same for High/Night Elves customization, in order to please the fanbase without giving in to a proper allied race.

and they will prob do that putting blue-eyes and tattoos to blood elves.

Kul'tiran human were planed before BFA release.

they were not planed to be playable before bfa release, thats my point.

Kul'tirans are humans,

just like dark iron dwarves are dwarves, never said otherwise, but you can open you eyes and see that both are different.

If BE addiction was cured by light, then why they require so much the sunwell?

define require so much, cause i rly don't see a reason to destroy it.

If recolor aren't an argument, then why mag'har orc are playable? (they are just a recolor in-game)

because obviously, they are not just recolor.

A long-lived species does not grow due to its speed of reproduction, it grows because they are not tied to the mortality standards of races with shorter life span.

long lived species do not have much children and don't have a high speed ratio in reproduction.

One generation is enough to grow a long-lived population

its not in most of cases, especially in elves who are know to not have much children,something stated by veressa itself.

Again, HE and BE are not the same since BE interact with fel magic (that changed BE).

i already quoted you the canon proof that they are the same race, you saying they aren't is simple wrong.

their interaction was not enough to change their race

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You're the one denying reality, honestly.

You have a video interview where they specifically say that Kul'Tiras were planned as an allied race before BfA was even announced, but for some reason you think that they decided to make the race an allied race "at the last minute before releasing patch 8.1.5".

and i simple say i don't believe that, if it was the plan they would have put effort in the kul'tiran race and not dark iron and show that in the announcement, they would have at least more than 2 faces and other things, simple don't make any sense. Sounds just like one of the bs blizzard excuses they always do.

Making children has zero bearings on what I've been saying. As for exercising, it's not non-sense. It's a valid form of dealing with addiction and a valid form of explaining a difference in physical build between HEs and BEs.

and im telling you that exercising alone don't make you a different race, you would still be essentially the same race, and your children will be normal elves, not buffer ones, or with the pre-disposition to being buffer, any "exercising" the HE could have done(and they didn't) would be done by blood elves too, no way they would not also fight against the withdraw.

No, they likely haven't, since all blood elves were more than willing to drain mana from living beings, and they had those fel-tainted crystals scattered all around their city and settlements.

not all of then did, the farstrider didn't rely on mana, a group of elves who generations rely way more on physical strength than magic.

they would also be "buffer", so once again 2 years of "training" is not nearly enough to validate a playable race, this is the wrong route.

[Ielenia]

and i simple say i don't believe that, if it was the plan they would have put effort in the kul'tiran race and not dark iron and show that in the announcement, they would have at least more than 2 faces and other things, simple don't make any sense. Sounds just like one of the bs blizzard excuses they always do.

Watch. The. God. Damn. Video.

And it's funny how when Ion says something you disagree, it's "just like one of BS Blizzard excuses", but when they say something you agree with (like "the Horde is there for you") then their word is indisputable law.

There's a name for that.

and im telling you that exercising alone don't make you a different race, you would still be essentially the same race, and your children will be normal elves, not buffer ones, or with the pre-disposition to being buffer,

Neither are the Kul'Tiras. Their "buffness/fatness" is simply result of their lifestyle, considering we also have "thin humans" and "normal humans" all living together and intermingling together.

any "exercising" the HE could have done(and they didn't) would be done by blood elves too, no way they would not also fight against the withdraw.

And why would the blood elves do it? The high elves would be doing it because it would have helped them deal with the negative effects from their addiction. Why would the blood elves do that if they had a much easier, if morally dubious, way of dealing with the negative effects in the form of draining mana from living beings?

they would also be "buffer", so once again 2 years of "training" is not nearly enough to validate a playable race, this is the wrong route.

It's way more than enough to justify differences in build and posture for a new playable race.

[FlubberPuddy]

and they will prob do that putting blue-eyes and tattoos to blood elves.

I'm not sure how people who are making a request for an Alliance side thing and getting it on Horde is somehow "pleasing the Alliance fanbase". That just sounds stupid.

It would be like how you want to have Ogres on Horde and then Blizzard puts them on Alliance. "There you go Horde fanbase, be happy that we put this on the Alliance."

[Syegfryed]

I'm not sure how people who are making a request for an Alliance side thing and getting it on Horde is somehow "pleasing the Alliance fanbase". That just sounds stupid.

im never said it would "please" the alliance fanbase, but will shut down something who was dead since TBC;

It would be like how you want to have Ogres on Horde and then Blizzard puts them on Alliance. "There you go Horde fanbase, be happy that we put this on the Alliance."

at this point, after so much years, yeah i take ogres on alliance and would play one, if they eventually give horde void ogres.

Watch. The. God. Damn. Video.

And it's funny how when Ion says something you disagree, it's "just like one of BS Blizzard excuses", but when they say something you agree with (like "the Horde is there for you") then their word is indisputable law.

There's a name for that.

did you read the interview that i also posted saying kul'tirans didn't intend to be a new race?

Its simple make no sense, if kul'tirans was going to be available on launch, why they didn't work on then with the other 2? instead they work on other 3? imple beuse they would not be new race and only became because people asked for.

Neither are the Kul'Tiras. Their "buffness/fatness" is simply result of their lifestyle, considering we also have "thin humans" and "normal humans" all living together and intermingling together.

we don't even know for sure why they are like that,but there is no way a human archive that just by training, you can increase to 8ft just by your lifestyle, that shit is genetic and has been passed through generation of kul'tirans

And why would the blood elves do it? The high elves would be doing it because it would have helped them deal with the negative effects from their addiction. Why would the blood elves do that if they had a much easier, if morally dubious, way of dealing with the negative effects in the form of draining mana from living beings?

because also not all of then had the mana wyrms, obviously that resource went to people with more need, the farsriders would not need that they relly little on mana, and would endure, they by their own lifestyle endure the withdraw

It's way more than enough to justify differences in build and posture for a new playable race.

clearly is not, thats why is not a route blizzard went, they went about magical change, who make actual sense

[FlubberPuddy]

im never said it would "please" the alliance fanbase, but will shut down something who was dead since TBC;

Then you missed the point of that original person you were replying to.

at this point, after so much years, yeah i take ogres on alliance and would play one, if they eventually give horde void ogres.

It's one thing to "say it" another to actually "do it".

[Astranea]

Then you missed the point of that original person you were replying.

Thank you Pennem.

because now we kinda have the confirmation that skin tone alone, is not enough to be allied race, those are just variation whitin the race and they will prob do that putting blue-eyes and tattoos to blood.

Or, they could give them to both night and blood elves, in different forms?

Maybe I am missing something, but the more I analyze this, the more I feel Blizzard could very easily give the Night Elves some extra customization features which would make them role-playable as make-up High Elves without having to break the lore or explain a thing, exactly like they already showed to be doing with troll and dwarf appearances.

It would just require:

* A few more fleshy skin tones
* Some additional natural hair colors
* Blue face paints/tattoos
* Blue eyes beneath the new fainter glow

As a matter of fact, one could easily point that the Night Elves already have a couple of fleshy colored skin tones, so adding a few more will not shatter their lore, nor require any explanation, leading down to plain and simple genetic variation as you also acknowledged they are adding.

Next, the extra/new hair colors can be easily dismissed as dye being used following exposure to other cultures. They Night Elves have been living in the same towns with several races sporting these colors anyway, and barber shops are available in all major cities. I may be wrong of course, admittedly not very strong on lore, but I believe I read about Tyrande's change of hair color being explained like that.

Further, /face paints are already a typical if still optional Night Elf feature, available in different colors, and blue as a color undeniably belongs to the current color palette of the Night Elves. So all it would take would be adding more shapes and making the color independent from the hair, which I am seriously hoping is already in the plans seen the preview for the trolls and dwarves in Shadowlands.

Trickiest bit may be the blue eyes, but in this case Blizzard could easily get around that by just tweaking the intensity of the eye glow, which is already being worked on as from the announcement and PTR demo. So all it would take would be a simple statement or even silent assumption that 'the glow covered it all up, now the eye color can be seen and chosen, too.'

Because honestly, look at the current palette for Night Elf skin and hair customizations: they are mostly shades of blue plus green, ice and purple. So even without straying from the Classic/canon palette, it could be very easily argued that their eyes always were of these same colors, which were however being hidden by the intensity of the glow.

I mean seriously, what other eye colors could the Night Elves possibly have?

So there you go: Blizzard could very easily give the Alliance fanbase a choice to pick some options from a perfectly feasible Night Elf palette in order to roleplay as an Alliance High Elf, in a manner matching the Wildhammer options becoming available for the regular mountain dwarves, even if they will sport the same usual mountain dwarf racials.

If it works for the (Wildhammer) Dwarves and (Dark/Blood) Trolls, then Blizzard can easily make it work for the (High) Night Elves as well.

And they could still ALSO give similar options to the Blood Elves, if they deemed it appropriate.

Win win, everybody happy.

[Nosgoth]

I honestly highly doubt that at this point, High elves wont ever happen, just bite the bullet and roll Horde like Ion told us too.

What would it harm you if Alliance got High Elves as an Allied Race? What interest would you have in that not happening? What do you gain from that?

[Nosgoth]

It would highly infringe on Horde identity

Explain to me how. And explain to me how Void Elves don't already do that. Did the introduction of Nightborne to the Horde not also infringe on Alliance identity then, cause they use the same model as Night Elves? How about the fact that lorewise the High Elves are a part of the Alliance anyway, and are present in the form of characters like Vereesa?

and Ions already pretty much said no if you want High elf roll Horde because the High elves are the Blood elves, people just need to accept that.

If that is so, then why does Blizzard keep distinguishing between High Elves and Blood Elves?

[Manariel]

It would highly infringe on Horde identity and Ions already pretty much said no if you want High elf roll Horde because the High elves are the Blood elves, people just need to accept that.

Actually, you're describing Void Elves, not High Elves :
-Both BE and VE identify as Blood Elves (until a random event changed the Void Elves) not High Elves
-Both BE and VE dabble with dangerous and volatile energies (the Fel/the Void)
-Both BE and VE deem it necessary for the survival and protection of Quel'thalas
-Both BE and VE are seen acting in very dubious ways but handwave it away because it's for some sort of greater good

[Ignaz]

they were not planed to be playable before bfa release, thats my point.

what do you mean by '' before ''? during BC? because if so, you are absolutely right

just like dark iron dwarves are dwarves, never said otherwise, but you can open you eyes and see that both are different.

Darkiron literally has flames on the beard and if unnaturally gray / black skin, I mean ... beard ... with fire. Playable Kul'tirans are just fat, What is the biological difference between a fat kul'tirano and a non-fat one?.

define require so much, cause i rly don't see a reason to destroy it.

They need the sunwell to satiate their addiction. if they were not addicted, that would not happen

because obviously, they are not just recolor.

yes, they are

long lived species do not have much children and don't have a high speed ratio in reproduction.

uh ... yeah. That's what I said. My point is that their numbers do not grow because of their reproduction speed, their population grows because they are not tied to the mortality standards of non-long-lived races
for example: humans; they1 reproduce, their children2 they grow up and have children3 (you have 3 generations there), but grandparents1 die reducing the number of live generations to 2. In a long-lived population, grandparents would still be alive and would surely see their great grandchildren quietly… alive

its not in most of cases, especially in elves who are know to not have much children,something stated by veressa itself.

vereesa windrunner ... the same one with two children ...

their interaction was not enough to change their race.

But is it enough for regular orcs? which is almost the same example (change of color and attitude)

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There's a name for that.

opportunist?

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It would highly infringe on Horde identity and Ions already pretty much said no if you want High elf roll Horde because the High elves are the Blood elves, people just need to accept that.

''horde identity'' was already violated with allied races.
Void elves (blood elves) for the Alliance.
Nigthborn (night elves) for the Horde.

What would be the difference with high elves being a playable race for the alliance if they are already part of the alliance?

[Obelisk Kai]

Afrasiabi himself said to others that High Elf skins on VE are possible, he also encouraged people to not give up hope during answering of that question. A question you often like to remind that is centered on Void Elves getting High Elf skins. But you're still not understanding what I'm saying.

I believe you have a track record of interpreting what the developers say incorrectly, and often in a way wildly at odds with what they were actually saying and at odds with the context of the response. For example, after the Jessie Cox 2017 Blizzcon interview were Ion first ruled out High Elves as a distinct Allied race, you put forward (in all seriousness) the idea that he was lying. That High Elves were still likely coming, and that he said what he said so as not to take the spotlight off of the Void Elves who had just been announced.

Your response to the Afrasiabi comment, which is now over a year old, is in the same vein. Once again, I have to point out that this was not a possibility he himself volunteered, it was a question directly put to him by the Lost Codex interviewer. That his response was 'it's possible', which is as far from a promise as you can get without ruling it out. After all, Ion has the standard response 'anything is possible' when asked about something they aren't doing or considering at the moment which he used on all three occasions he was asked about playable High Elves and mostly recently to Preach when asked about the possibility of a return to master loot. You have always seemingly taken 'anything is possible' to mean it is genuinely under consideration, rather than how it is actually meant, which is 'we aren't even thinking about this right now'.

As for 'not giving up hope', that is again you taking the wrong angle on what he was saying. The vast majority of his response was taken up by a commentary on being respectful on online forums. The developers may peruse the forums, but they are heavily reliant on the community managers and forum moderators to digest that feedback and present it back to them in a cogent form. 'Not giving up hope' is not the promise you think it was. 'Not giving up hope' was really a call for people to moderate their language and attitudes on a question the developers surely know of as a dumpster fire of toxicity.

Of course having said that, skins are possible. But if you think Afrasiabi was giving you a covert 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink' with his comment I think you are going to find yourself as disappointed as you were when you found out Ion wasn't lying to ensure Void Elves had their big day.

All of what you're saying here does not matter. There are going to be people who legit play a Wildhammer Dwarf as if they're not having Mountain King Heritage Armor, Mtn Dwarf racials/mounts. You won't ruin their parade. There are people who RP their Mag'har as from Outland right now, you're not ruining their parade. I bet if Blue Eyes come to Blood Elves some will RP them as never having done the things that Blood Elves have done, you won't ruin their parade. There are going to be people RPing Desert Trolls and Dark Trolls as either not from the Echo Isles or the last few of their kind (Dark Trolls) and you're not going to ruin their parade.

Because I am not the one who can ruin their parade in regards to the Trolls and the Dwarves. The set up for both groups are different, in that the customizations are being implemented on the core dwarf race and thus have a less restrictive lore to draw on.
Those who are RPing their Mag'har as from Outland rather than Draenor are lying to themselves. The origin of playable Mag'har Orcs in WoW was defined by their scenario. They are refugees from alternate Draenor.
The Mag'har Orc jokes give the game away

"Hey... aren't you the one who left that abandoned garrison littering up Frostfire?"
"Enough of this wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... BLAH! Just let me smash stuff!"
"I dyed my hair green once. Warchief Hellscream was NOT amused."
"Drahnor. Draynor? Draanur. Draenor. <Sigh>. I'm just gonna say I'm from Outland."
"Azeroth goes through warchiefs like Draenor goes through alternate timeline"
"Try spending a few decades trapped on a planet with fanatical draenei and see how YOU like it!"

No Dwarf joke or flirt explicitly identifies the Dwarf as Bronzebeard, they are all generic. The only Dwarf racial that might be considered limiting is Might of the mountain, until you remember every tribe of Dwarf has a connection to mountains of some description. Even the Wildhammer had the city of Grim Batol and have the city of Aerie Peak.
No Troll joke or flirt explicitly identified the Troll as Darkspear, they are all generic. All Troll racials are also generic, representative of themes that can be perceived as universal amongst all Troll tribes.

In other words, because of their circumstances, all those other roleplayers are going to be able to get away with it.

Yet the Mag'har Allied races jokes, flirts define them and their origins. The Mag'har Orc from Outlands roleplayer is perpetrating a con. Sure, we all understand what they are doing and why they are doing it, but the illusion is brittle. At leas the Mag'har racials are generic and don't betray the player as a result.

And Void Elves don't even have that. Their jokes give them away. Their flirts give them away. Hell, anything vocal emote they have gives them away due to the weird reverb effect that is the by-product of their void transformation.
Even their racials give them away. No other race has a random proc that is going to turn them pure purple after all.

I can't 'rain on the parade' of Void Elf players who wish to pretend to be High Elves because they can never start their parade. Their entire race is set up in such a way that the illusion is unsustainable. A Void Elf will always be a Void Elf, an Elf who has gone through the process of being transformed into a Void Elf and thus meaningfully differentiated from the traditional high elf archetype as represented as a Blood Elf.

If you want the TLDR; Some races are better able than others of being able to carry the fantasy of being a different sub-group of that race. Void Elves have been introduced in such a way as to render that impossible. So citing Dwarves and Trolls is meaningless as a comparison, that's Dwarves and Trolls. Void Elves can only ever be Void Elves.

Again, no argument needs to be made. Nobody has to "make arguments" to justify why they'd like a certain option to become playable. Mechagnomes show this. Other than scant few people here and there saying "yes I'd love to play a mechagnome like in Ulduar" there was never anything close to 'ok here are the reasons this race should be added'.

The debate on this topic proves you wrong. Like it or not, you are asking for a duplicate of a core Horde race. Denying there is an issue doesn't make that issue go away, particularly given this is the reason you haven't gotten and likely will never get what you are asking for as a distinct Allied race.

But anyone has to be blind if they think arguing against anyone here is either raising or lowering the likelihood of High Elves getting added. All people need to do is have that discourse with Blizzard until they have a finality to it (which they have not) like how they've been final with Pathfinder. Even with their finality towards Pathfinder, people still ask for it and get the reinforced answer. It's been like the 3rd time since people have asked for Pathfinder to go away, Blizzard at least still responds.

Being told twice by a senior developer that Blood Elves are the High Elf option within the game, being told multiple times faction diversity matters across the past seven years (from Ghostcrawler onwards), the creation of a variant of the group you are asking for as a clear attempt at a compromise AND the absence of that race being added as an Allied race during the period Blizzard was adding allied races at the greatest speed seems pretty final to me and I would argue most other people. Just because your community hasn't accepted it's over doesn't mean it isn't over. In truth this debate died the day revealed Void Elves, because why would they ever add Void Elves if they ever had any intention of adding High Elves? I've asked that question for two years and nobody has ever given a proper response from the pro High Elf community, because they don't want to give the only response that works.

They wouldn't.

The High Elf request isn't new, but Ion's response of "go play the Horde if you want to be a High Elf" is relatively new, and even then, he has only responded to it 2x. Afrasiabi afterwards had a different take, a question contextually about Void Elves but thematically on High Elf fantasy within the Alliance. And Afrasiabi's take is "it's possible, don't give up hope" which is encouraging those who want it to keep requesting it.

As discussed above, Afrasiabi's response was far likelier a request for you all to calm down and go away. We also don't know what new Void Elf customizations are likely. The constraints that led them to create Void Elves in the first place are still, not infringing on the aesthetic and theme of a core Horde race.

I wonder how many pro High Elfers would embrace this solution you are now enthusiastically pushing. After all, I have explained above why it won't work in practice. Every time they emote, or entropic embrace procs, or they feel compelled to use one of their racials, or someone in game refers to them as 'Void Elf', it will take a supreme mental effort to compartmentalise that away and say to yourself 'I am not a Void Elf, I am a High Elf'. Can you imagine trying to keep up the pretence with every little aspect of the game driving home your innate Void Elf nature. I can't imagine it would be very many who could keep that up. I can't imagine many other players would be willing to indulge them in denying the blindingly obvious either. Perhaps the way to approach it would be to work the void induced insanity into that player's backstory, that they insist they are an unchanged thalassian elf even though it's blindingly obvious they've been changed by the void to everyone else. Call it the 'mad elf' path. Still, I think your solution won't appeal to many on your side of the debate.

And Ion's response of 'Go Horde' has always been implied. Given that they placed High Elves on the Horde coming up on thirteen years ago.

This is a big difference from Pathfinder where 1) They never encourage people to keep asking against it and 2) They continually reinforce it's the way to go. Just as Blizzard still responds to Pathfinder questions, I hope they will respond to High Elf ones too. The High Elf Request only truly dies once Blizzard has made a final decision or never ever bring it up again after like a decade or something. Kind of like the dance studio. It's just an old tired meme and pretty much everyone realizes that's never happening and it never gets brought up by Blizzard in any serious manner either.

They never encouraged anyone to keep asking about it, that is your highly selective interpretation of what was said and why it was said. As demonstrated, you have form in drawing the wrong conclusion from what is said by the developers if it contradicts what you want e.g. Ion is lying to ensure Void Elves aren't overshadowed on their big day.

I'm sure that Stormwind only exists to house a few hundred NPCs too then? Literal numbers of an NPC =/= how many there are in the universe. Or is the sprawling city of Boralus only home to a couple hundred or so people?

Stop using such a silly depiction as an argument. They've also stated that every NPC (including Void Elves) involved in the Alliance Nazmir assault has died. Yet that doesn't mean anything in regards to actual troop numbers.


If anything, only named NPCs have actual limited lives until Blizzard decides their time is up. If an NPC is just a generic troop then one can consider there being an infinite amount of them. Because that's how Blizzard utilizes them. They're meant to represent a % and not literal number. Otherwise how can one explain the constant use of the Silver Covenant? I guess they must just be really elite soldiers. But I digress, the use of Cities in the game is enough to debunk any argument where someone tries to use the literal number of a generic NPC as if that's all that is left of them.

They've also stated on numerous occasions that the High Elf exile population is vanishingly low. So, to clarify, in game representation doesn't matter...out of game sources don't matter...developer commentary on their population doesn't matter...so long as that commentary or in game representation says the High Elf exile population is vanishingly low.

Face it, you just don't want to accept that there are barely any of them left and barely any in the Alliance. You argue against everything that concurs with the expressed position of the developers and the lore on this point but accept without question anything that implies they are a force within the Alliance. This is confirmation bias.

[QUOTE=Pennem;51876923Yeah go say that in a thread asking for Ogres and see the types of answers you will get. <-- this is my point. Not particularly that Ogres are justified or not, that I don't care. But just showing you will get similar push back against others who wanted something added into the game if you (general you) come in to that particular threadpiece and oppose it.[/QUOTE]

Ogres are not currently a part of the Horde. Anyone who says Ogres are a core part of the identity of the Horde is wrong. There is no Ogre leadership within the Horde, there are no Ogre forces. All there is is a single village in dustwallow marsh and all they ever did outside of that zone was show up once in Feralas.
On the other hand, Ogres aren't part of any faction so if players wish to keep asking for them they are more than welcome to do so, but Ogres are NOT Horde. They used to be a part of the Horde, but they left and the few who remain do not constitute a major or visible part of the Horde faction.

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From the moment that blood elves began to interact with fel magic they distinguished themselves as a different race from the high elves (Under the blizzard standards, of course).

I won't tell you anything else, since your comment is stained in bad faith...

HIGH ELVES FOR THE ALLIANCE! HAHA

No, developer commentary and lore exposition has revealed thalassian eye colour is highly mutable depending on magical ambience. Besides, all thalassian elves (with the likely exception of the Void Elves) are now bound to the Sunwell and exposed to the same mixture of light and arcane energy.

If you regard my previous comment as bad faith, that is on you. But they already did what you suggested in differentiating a group of high elves for the Alliance to use, that is the Void Elves.

As usual, the call for 'differentiation' is really a call for Blizzard to reinvent the wheel in such a way that the resulting wheel is not round.

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I know you're trolling but I can't help but smile at that post.

Because it displays for all to see the sheer hypocrisy of the anti-High Elves crowd. They accuse us of caring only about the aesthetic of the High Elves - the current one - and that we use the lore as a gig leaf, when they, proud and noble, oppose it because of such pillars of WoW as Factions Uniquenes (because Pandaren and VE who looks exactly the same as BE in a lot of set aren't a thing) and the Thalassian lore which solely belong to the Horde now oppose it, and High Elves would be stealing from it.

However, they conveniently brush any problem with the VE when it is they who are stealing the BE thunder, not the HE who, over 15+ years have become distinct enough from the BE that they have no qualms molesting or killing the others, as seen in Dalaran or Suramar. Perhaps I shouldn't be telling this to a North Irlander, but it's almost as if now, HE and BE were Republicans and Unionists, don't you think ?

Meanwhile, the VE are allowed to go away with the BE lore of playing with dangerous energies for flimsy reasons but in the name of the greater good of Quel'thalas. kind of like the BE in TBC and even their Light users were like that back then. And BE players have bemoaned the loss of their edge and unscrupulous actions ever since the Sunwell Plateau's ending.

But since VE looks nothing like BE, and thus are aesthetically distinct - because they have an ugly purple tint on their skin - they are well accepted and used to try and silence us. Well, that's too bad. Because they may superfically look like HE, but they are Blood Elves at heart and lorewise, they have nothing in common with the elves we have been requesting since a very long time and will keep requesting until they are brought into the game. The High Elves. the fair-skinned elves of the Alliance. Distinct from the fair-skinned elves of the Horde.

And, obviously, the pathetic glee of the anti-HE crowd when they saw the new Dk's eyes on BE also reinforce the fact that they only care for the appearance of the game, not its lore, at least when it comes to High Elves.

What defines a race is aesthetic, theme, model and lore. Void Elves and Blood Elves share a model. Void Elves (far from having no lore) and Blood Elves share the majority of their lore. Where they differentiate is on aesthetic and theme and some lore.

I was never a fan of the Void Elf compromise. I would have given the Alliance Nightborne and the Horde Undead Elves i.e no compromise at all as I don't think one was required.

Blizzard disagreed and introduced a compromise for the Alliance, giving the model and much of the lore but ensuring the Horde kept a monopoly on the High Elf theme and aesthetic as a method of keeping the factions differentiated. So as you can see, as a compromise it's probably a good one in that nobody got everything they wanted.

Void Elves may have taken over the old Blood Elf theme of messing with dangerous magics, but the reason they could do that was that theme was erased in TBC with the restoration of the Sunwell. That was when Blood Elves lost any edge they may have had and reverted in every aspect, rather than every aspect bar one, to being traditional, standard high elves. The traditional, standard high elf option any self respecting high fantasy game seems obligated to offer.

So, having gotten the model and much of the lore, you wish to erase the compromise by getting more of what you want at the expense of the unique place of the Blood Elves. So I don't believe it is a hypocrisy to defend the remaining unique features of the Blood Elves from the greed of the pro High Elf community who got a thalassian elf of their very own and then had the temerity to reject it because 'because they have an ugly purple tint on their skin'.

If you want to play a standard High Elf, the Horde is waiting for you. If you cannot stomach the Horde, the Alliance has a thalassian elf variant of it's own.

And I make no apologies for being hyped for the future blood elf customizations which are coming, which I very much hope includes blue eyes for Blood Elves and warcraft 2 tattoo options. Blood Elves are the High Elves that are playable and Blizzard should not stay their hand or restrain their creativity to placate the vocal adherents of a group that will almost certainly never be added. Blood Elf players deserve more consideration, as we have actual characters and we would like those options.

You'd be as well to argue that giving me a gift and not my twin brother would be unfair to my twin brother. I do not have a twin brother. Can't be unfair to what does not exist, so you can't be unfair to Alliance High Elf players.

P.S No, you shouldn't bring up the issues in the north of ireland in a thread about fantasy elves. It's in bad taste.

[Frenchvince]

The horde / alliance factions are the pillar of wow and they will always be there
Blizzard made it clear at the last blizzon.

It's good for the high elves' request because they are in the alliance ... and the blood elves are in the horde.

- Blue eyes = High elves = alliance

- Green / Golden Eyes = Blood Elves = Horde

Even though blood elves might have a 1% chance of getting the blue eyes option with future customization, there will still be high elves in the alliance, so the demand will still be there and will not end anytime soon.

[Ielenia]

did you read the interview that i also posted saying kul'tirans didn't intend to be a new race?

You mean the interview in that the guy says that the thin humans weren't planned to be an allied race, as per the question asked?

Its simple make no sense, if kul'tirans was going to be available on launch, why they didn't work on then with the other 2? instead they work on other 3? imple beuse they would not be new race and only became because people asked for.

If you watched the video Ion explained they thought they wouldn't have the race available to be playable in time. You can't really compare the effort of making an allied race like Void Elves or Nightborne to making what basically amounts to a whole new race in the form of Kul'Tiras humans.

we don't even know for sure why they are like that,but there is no way a human archive that just by training, you can increase to 8ft just by your lifestyle, that shit is genetic and has been passed through generation of kul'tirans

Dude, a race is not uniformly all the same height. Playable kul'tirans being taller is not this big 'gotcha' you think it is.

because also not all of then had the mana wyrms, obviously that resource went to people with more need, the farsriders would not need that they relly little on mana, and would endure, they by their own lifestyle endure the withdraw

All of them had mana wyrms to consume, since mana wyrms are so common that one of your first tasks as a blood elf is to cut down their numbers since there's too many of them. And, again, those fel-tainted crystals that permeate the city and exist in almost every BE settlement. Even the Farstrider's Lodge, if I'm not mistaken.

clearly is not, thats why is not a route blizzard went, they went about magical change, who make actual sense

Oh? So now you're claiming the Kul'Tiras are what they are because of "magical change"? God damn you love to throw nonsensical, absurd claims, and then complain about me...

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It would highly infringe on Horde identity

How would it "infringe on Horde identity" any more than void elves did?

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Blood elves have not dabbled in fel since tbc and even that was retconned toa radiation of sorts and since when have they been acting dubious since the events of tbc hmmmmmm?

I can name you one even, off the top of my head: Lady Liadrin openly, blatantly lying to Thelyssra about their role and the night elves' role in the fight against the Legion's first invasion.

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opportunist?

That's the friendly way of calling it, but I was thinking less... amicable names.

[Manariel]

@Obelisk Kai

Void Elves are not a compromise. They are a bad joke and a failure at first, and needed to be used more than any other Allied Race to even start to be remotely well developed and useful. They don't make sense, they don't bring anything to the Alliance of worth right now (and the devs don't seem to want to use them even) and are indeed used to pretend that High Elves shouldn't be playable, when they deserve to be. Especially when they peddle the lie that Blood Elves are High Elves, when they are blatantly not anymore and that those are now two distinct peoples who hate and loath each other deeply.

And of course BE can get more customization options. Even those Farstriders tatoos and all. It doesn't change the fact that high Elves are distinct enough to be made playable without infringing on BE lore while the VE needed to pilfer it to even be made remotely possible. WHich is such a bullshit excuse of a race that it was never a compromise, just one more example of Blizzard shiting on the Alliance, really.

[Obelisk Kai]

@Obelisk Kai

Void Elevs are not a compromise. They are a failure. They don't make sense, they don't bring anything to the Alliance of worth and are indeed used to pretend that High Elves shouldn't be playable, when they deserve to be. Especially when they peddle the lie that Blood Elves are High Elves, when they are blatantly not anymore and that those are now two distinct peoples who hate and loath each other deeply.

And of course BE can get more customization options. Even those Farstriders tatoos and all. It doesn't change the fact that high Elves are distinct enough to be made playable without infringing on BE lore while the VE needed to pilfer it to even be made remotely possible. WHich is such a bullshit excuse of a race that it was never a compromise, just one more example of Blizzard shiting on the Alliance, really.

Void Elves are a compromise. This idea that they aren't a compromise is patently ridiculous, it's only not a compromise in the sense you didn't get everything you asked for (which also is not a compromise). You got the model, you got a group of Alliance loyal Thalassian elves. That is a compromise and your own personal sense of grievance that you didn't get what you wanted doesn't change that.

And no, high elves are not distinct enough to be made playable without infringing on the Blood Elves. Firstly because the reason they weren't added is because they infringe on the Blood Elves (and the game director is probably right, whereas someone who REALLY wants High Elves on the Alliance might have an agenda to state their opinion without evidence as if it were a fact).

So High Elves are almost certainly not happening as a playable race. You've got Void Elves. Who knows what they will do with Void Elf customization but as I keep explaining to Pennem, that is still going to be a Void Elf.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

What if...


Just what if...


Blizzard did decide to add High Elves as a playable race...


...BUT


...they had a brand new and unique model? Not the same Blood/Void Elf model? A brand new skeleton/rig with brand new attack and casting animations and EVERYTHING. Would people still want to play them?


Like what if they looked like this?

Void Elves are not a compromise..

They are a compromise. Just because you don't accept it as one doesn't change Blizzard's reasoning to add them in the first place and the intention behind that reason.

You certainly have the right to not accept it as a compromise though.

[Manariel]

Void Elves are a compromise. This idea that they aren't a compromise is patently ridiculous, it's only not a compromise in the sense you didn't get everything you asked for (which also is not a compromise). You got the model, you got a group of Alliance loyal Thalassian elves. That is a compromise and your own personal sense of grievance that you didn't get what you wanted doesn't change that.

And no, high elves are not distinct enough to be made playable without infringing on the Blood Elves. Firstly because the reason they weren't added is because they infringe on the Blood Elves (and the game director is probably right, whereas someone who REALLY wants High Elves on the Alliance might have an agenda to state their opinion without evidence as if it were a fact).

So High Elves are almost certainly not happening as a playable race. You've got Void Elves. Who knows what they will do with Void Elf customization but as I keep explaining to Pennem, that is still going to be a Void Elf.

Please; Ion is so biased he makes Kosak look like an Alliance fan. And Kosak was the original Danuser.

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What if...


Just what if...


Blizzard did decide to add High Elves as a playable race...


...BUT


...they had a brand new and unique model? Not the same Blood/Void Elf model? A brand new skeleton/rig with brand new attack and casting animations and EVERYTHING. Would people still want to play them?


Like what if they looked like this?











They are a compromise. Just because you don't accept it as one doesn't change Blizzard's reasoning to add them in the first place and the intention behind that reason.

You certainly have the right to not accept it as a compromise though.

If that's Blizzard and the Horde Player's idea of a compromise, I better understand why they think that Anduin's peace is beneficial for the Alliance somehow when it is blatantly not.

But, personally, I'd use the Nightfallen model, but tweaked, for High Elves. They should look gaunter than the Blood Elves who gorged on stolen mana and then the Sunwell.



Remove the clawed hand, add a little fat on the torso and face so they don't look so famished but still distinctly malnourished/not as radiant as Blood Elves, and you'd get a rather great start for a new High Elf model.

[Ignaz]

What if...


Just what if...


Blizzard did decide to add High Elves as a playable race...


...BUT


...they had a brand new and unique model? Not the same Blood/Void Elf model? A brand new skeleton/rig with brand new attack and casting animations and EVERYTHING. Would people still want to play them?


Like what if they looked like this?

Would be ideal. HE having his own playable race with a completely new model / rig and new movements, etc.
The only worrying thing is that they could give us another VE, knowing Blizzard.

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Please; Ion is so biased he makes Kosak look like an Alliance fan. And Kosak was the original Danuser.

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If that's Blizzard and the Horde Player's idea of a compromise, I better understand why they think that Anduin's peace is beneficial for the Alliance somehow when it is blatantly not.

But, personally, I'd use the Nightfallen model, but tweaked, for High Elves. They should look gaunter than the Blood Elves who gorged on stolen mana and then the Sunwell.



Remove the clawed hand, add a little fat on the torso and face so they don't look so famished but still distinctly malnourished/not as radiant as Blood Elves, and you'd get a rather great start for a new High Elf model.

I would prefer the nozdormu model, but it could work.

[Uthan]

I really don't get the whole infringing on horde identity argument, I mean, the High Elves are ALREADY in the Alliance. The identity has been infringed upon since before the Belves joined the horde, making them actually playable wouldn't really change that. And as others have said, having actual Blood Elves defect and join the alliance like the Void Elves did infringed way more than High Elves ever could on said identity. If anything changing the High Elves slightly with whatever new story there'd be, new voice lines and possibly minor customization etc would help fix the infringement that's already there by bringing the Belves and Helves further apart.

[delus]

Void Elves are a compromise. This idea that they aren't a compromise is patently ridiculous, it's only not a compromise in the sense you didn't get everything you asked for (which also is not a compromise). You got the model, you got a group of Alliance loyal Thalassian elves. That is a compromise and your own personal sense of grievance that you didn't get what you wanted doesn't change that.

And no, high elves are not distinct enough to be made playable without infringing on the Blood Elves. Firstly because the reason they weren't added is because they infringe on the Blood Elves (and the game director is probably right, whereas someone who REALLY wants High Elves on the Alliance might have an agenda to state their opinion without evidence as if it were a fact).

So High Elves are almost certainly not happening as a playable race. You've got Void Elves. Who knows what they will do with Void Elf customization but as I keep explaining to Pennem, that is still going to be a Void Elf.

Void elves have blue eyes. Tentacle hair is optional and black hair is optional. So are beards. The only things that truly seperate them are skin color and eye color. You would be infringing on your precious faction identity even more by giving blood elves void elf eye color. Surely even you can see the hypocracy.