Shadowlands paladin changes

[FlubberPuddy]

Doesn't say it's baseline for all Paladins btw, just says it's no longer a talent (implies it's possible that it's Ret only, but baseline for Ret).

It's baseline originally so I imagine it'll be back to that as well. Especially being listed under "iconic class abilities returning"

[Segus1992]

It's baseline originally so I imagine it'll be back to that as well. Especially being listed under "iconic class abilities returning"

Is that a blue post though? I've only seen it being paraphrased by wowhead. It was baseline originally yes, that doesn't mean that's the state we're getting back, seeing as there's a lot of shit that isn't coming back.

I wouldn't assume it's going to be classwide until we've gotten confirmation on it. It does make most sense for Ret, after all.

[cuafpr]

I comply disagree. holy power makes the spec a boring build 3-5 spend 3-5 which paladins should have never been. if you want a combo point class you should play a leather class.

^ this!! I've hated HP since it was first put in the game.. even called them holy combo points.

[Kellorion]

Bring back exorcism
AoE Judgements
Seal and Judgement Twisting
Blessing
Give us the updated Concentration graphic

[FlubberPuddy]

Is that a blue post though? I've only seen it being paraphrased by wowhead. It was baseline originally yes, that doesn't mean that's the state we're getting back, seeing as there's a lot of shit that isn't coming back.

I wouldn't assume it's going to be classwide until we've gotten confirmation on it. It does make most sense for Ret, after all.

I think you are looking at things in a vacuum. The entire article is about returning class abilities.

That’s the whole point. Something being spec specific means it’s not part of the class but the spec.

Also it says things like Hunter’s Mark and Demonic Circle are no longer talents too and I played a warlock in Wrath and remember all specs having access to Demonic Circle since it was a baseline ability.

Can’t speak for Hunter’s Mark though.

[Segus1992]

I think you are looking at things in a vacuum. The entire article is about returning class abilities.

That’s the whole point. Something being spec specific means it’s not part of the class but the spec.

Also it says things like Hunter’s Mark and Demonic Circle are no longer talents too and I played a warlock in Wrath and remember all specs having access to Demonic Circle since it was a baseline ability.

Can’t speak for Hunter’s Mark though.

I know it is, but since Blizzard's exact wording was "HoW is no longer a talent", assuming that means "baseline for all specs" is extrapolating naively. It COULD mean that, but it definitely might not.

[FlubberPuddy]

I know it is, but since Blizzard's exact wording was "HoW is no longer a talent", assuming that means "baseline for all specs" is extrapolating naively. It COULD mean that, but it definitely might not.

I don't think you watched the presentation where Holinka was saying that these talents were abilities that were given before and when they decided to do a clean up they thought it would be cool to put those core abilities as talents, but that turned out shitty.

So then he said the feedback was "people's feedback was this is so core and iconic to me I want to have it all the time" and they're giving it back. They exampled things like Anti-Magic Zone, Cyclone, and Summon Gargoyle too.

I'm not sure why you're trying to go off so hard on how Wowhead tried to categorize what was said just for efficiency. If you hear it from the horse's mouth you'd know the entire presentation focused on Class abilities.

Your thought process turns the conversation back into a Spec one, which wasn't the point of the presentation at all.

[Elkas]

Is that a blue post though? I've only seen it being paraphrased by wowhead. It was baseline originally yes, that doesn't mean that's the state we're getting back, seeing as there's a lot of shit that isn't coming back.

I wouldn't assume it's going to be classwide until we've gotten confirmation on it. It does make most sense for Ret, after all.

Watch the entire Blizzcon presentation.

[Aliven]

Just give me back Sense Undead, and I'll be happy as a clam at high tide.

But why? TO have useless dots on minimap?

[Sigxy]

But why? TO have useless dots on minimap?

Aside from that it helps with the whole Class Fantasy business, in WotlK you could glyph so that as long as you had Sense Undead up: You deal 1% extra damage towards undead. So maybe they could add in the effect on the latter? And who knows, maybe they could improve it so if there's some special undead around they get marked a bit differently.

[Segus1992]

I don't think you watched the presentation where Holinka was saying that these talents were abilities that were given before and when they decided to do a clean up they thought it would be cool to put those core abilities as talents, but that turned out shitty.

So then he said the feedback was "people's feedback was this is so core and iconic to me I want to have it all the time" and they're giving it back. They exampled things like Anti-Magic Zone, Cyclone, and Summon Gargoyle too.

I'm not sure why you're trying to go off so hard on how Wowhead tried to categorize what was said just for efficiency. If you hear it from the horse's mouth you'd know the entire presentation focused on Class abilities.

Your thought process turns the conversation back into a Spec one, which wasn't the point of the presentation at all.

Good point, bringing up Summon Gargoyle. That is not going to be baseline for the class, it'll be baseline for Unholy. Same could definitely happen to Hammer of Wrath.

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Watch the entire Blizzcon presentation.

I did. Don't be naive. Other skills were presented that won't become classwide, as that was never the case and makes no sense (Summon Gargoyle, for instance).

Again, I'm not saying HoW WILL be Ret only, I'm saying it CAN be since you're just trying to extrapolate from context and assumptions. You're being naive if you think this is 100% confirmation Holy is getting HoW again.

[iosdeveloper]

When it came out i quit my pally, this would bring me back to one for sure

same!
WotLK FCFS rotation was the shit!
facerolling was ok for pvp, but in pve you couldn't go to the top with faceroll attitude.

Cataclysm turned ret into a plate rogue, Holy Power looked cool on paper, but felt bad. what a shame

[FlubberPuddy]

Good point, bringing up Summon Gargoyle. That is not going to be baseline for the class, it'll be baseline for Unholy. Same could definitely happen to Hammer of Wrath.

Ah ok, so you don't actually care for what was said but have an agenda you're pushing/hoping for. Makes sense now.

[Ulthane]

Well when I see the auras returning im thinking on how currently Devotion Aura is handled and I am wondering if that is going to be a thing. Not just something passive but something that has a lot more weight. Like what would a Retribution Aura look like with the Devo Aura model?

[Theoris]

But why? TO have useless dots on minimap?

Why not? It just adds a little more flavor to the class.

[Segus1992]

Ah ok, so you don't actually care for what was said but have an agenda you're pushing/hoping for. Makes sense now.

No, that's exactly the reverse of what's going on. YOU're the one hoping HoW becomes baseline for all specs, and you don't want to consider reason as a possibility for it not becoming baseline.

My main has always been Paladin, I want HoW to become baseline again. But just like abilities like Summon Gargoyle WILL become Unholy only, Hammer of Wrath MIGHT. I'm not naive enough to assume the best case scenario before I have confirmation of that being the case.

[StrawberryZebra]

Like what would a Retribution Aura look like with the Devo Aura model?

I suppose if they wanted to make it almost the inverse, then Retribution Aura could deal damage to targets that are close to you, diminishing with each additional target in the area.

Though I think such a design highlights the primary flaw with auras in general. You'd be getting extra damage for simply being there. And that's not in any way, shape, or form an interesting design or ability.

[Aliven]

Why not? It just adds a little more flavor to the class.

So you need only a little more flavor to be happy with a class?

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Aside from that it helps with the whole Class Fantasy business, in WotlK you could glyph so that as long as you had Sense Undead up: You deal 1% extra damage towards undead. So maybe they could add in the effect on the latter? And who knows, maybe they could improve it so if there's some special undead around they get marked a bit differently.

Sure but this is like dots on minimap. I would understand if somebody say exorcism or something but dots on minimap? :P

[Theoris]

So you need only a little more flavor to be happy with a class?

Not what I was getting at. I've just missed the ability.

[Ulthane]

I suppose if they wanted to make it almost the inverse, then Retribution Aura could deal damage to targets that are close to you, diminishing with each additional target in the area.

Though I think such a design highlights the primary flaw with auras in general. You'd be getting extra damage for simply being there. And that's not in any way, shape, or form an interesting design or ability.

But the thing is that Auras are important because they are supposed to signify the battlefield presence of a Paladin.

Auras need to: Signify our weight in a group, so as such they need to have an impact and you will notice when its there. Devotion Aura, Aura of Sacrifice and what not in the Holy Tree are very strong. So I would imagine that if Ret aura had a function it would act as a "conduit pylon" effect or somehow grant additional damage maybe. Either way, im glad Auras are coming back.