Silvanas didnt go to the maw when she died

[Armakus]

It makes no sense that she went to the Maw. She wasn't an irredeemable person in WotLK (As far as I remember) . I find that part to be a bit of an ass pull.

I'm pretty sure in the book they noted that she was due for eternal torment just because of her undeath.

[Jaggler]

We neither know when death broke and/or if it broke multiple times. Sylvanas' statement could just mean in her eyes death is broken because it dared to condem a cunt like her to hell, that the maw keeps growing might be an unrelated issue from her PoV, after all she gains power from the Jailer because of the current situation, despite this being the real broken part for most of us.

I mean, Blizz stated it, it's not some in universe statement. Considering some regions of the shadowlands like Ardenweald are experiencing damages because of death not working how it should,it stands to reason, that it's not supposed to be this way.

[huth]

I mean, Blizz stated it, it's not some in universe statement. Considering some regions of the shadowlands like Ardenweald are experiencing damages because of death not working how it should,it stands to reason, that it's not supposed to be this way.

Which Haidaes did touch on. Point is, what Sylvanas considers broken and the actual, visible issues the Shadowlands have currently aren't necessarily the same or even related.

[matrix123mko]

It makes no sense that she went to the Maw. She wasn't an irredeemable person in WotLK (As far as I remember) . I find that part to be a bit of an ass pull.

I think in WotLK they went for story that undead are all irredeemable in Shadowlands.

[babalou1]

Ok, sure, but it was surely related to the lich king's creation.

And what makes you think that? Because absolutely nothing blizzard has said, to this point has made that even a suggestion. Also that has absolutely nothing to do with what you just said. You said death broke WHEN they "stole" the helm of domination. Which we know for a FACT is not true.

Is it possible that The LKs creation could have set in a chain of events that lead to death being broken, sure. Maybe. But with the info that BLIZZARD has given us, that is not the case.

Uther is a member of one of the covenants. Kael'Thas is ALSO a member of one of the covenants. So death worked in BC and also worked for atleast most of WotLK. Uther was trapped in Frostmourne until we killed Arthas. So according to this, what we know as *fact*, Death worked some time up the death of LK Arthas and Sylvanus killing herself.

[TickTickTick]

When she died, she went to Bastion and saw the world infested with human-like creatures. This was when she decided she won't endure the eternity in their companion, let alone becoming one of them. She stole a few of them, came back to Azeroth and decided to feed the Maw so that the Bastion is vanquished, breaking the endless cycle of Human Potential TM.

[RedFenix]

I have a theory that Lich King's power is actually original Jailer's power that was "borrowed" from the Shadowlands due to a deal made by Legion. In this way, whenever Lich King pulls someone back from the Shadowlands (by making him undead) this person is automatically put in Jailer's domain. Thus, when that person dies again, he/she goes straight to the Maw. This would be consistent with Sylvanas' belief that all undead are damned after death automatically. Mind you, it isn't how Death was SUPPOSED to work in cosmic scale. I suspect our goal in Shadowlands will be to fix it and cause undead to be able to reach salvation.

Good theory! However, even if the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne (that were stolen from the Forge of Domination https://www.wowhead.com/news=295988/...-of-domination) borrowed powers from the Jailer, the Lich King still built his Scourge from the powers of Maldraxxus (Liches and Abominations) and Revendreth (San'layne and Gargoyles). The Shades, Wraiths, and Revenants might have come from the Maw, but Sylvanas was a "mortal" when she died. Her soul was there, she wasn't some echo/ghost. Also, the Arbiter doesn't consider the residents of those realms to be irredeemable, so it wouldn't make sense to damn someone for something they had no control over. The Arbiter can see all past deeds, thoughts, emotions, and potential when a soul comes across her path, and the Machine of Death wasn't broken back then.

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It makes no sense that she went to the Maw. She wasn't an irredeemable person in WotLK (As far as I remember) . I find that part to be a bit of an ass pull.

Sylvanas had the intent of releasing a plague of undeath on the world since Vanilla, and she saved face by feigning ignorance with the Wrathgate event, even though she was definitely involved. She was doing evil things for selfish reasons. At least Kael'thas actually CARED about his people, but lost sight of his original path to save them. Kael'thas didn't want to wipe everyone out with a plague and raise them as forsaken, but he did pave the path for others on Azeroth to be harmed through his actions.

[gcsmith]

It makes no sense that she went to the Maw. She wasn't an irredeemable person in WotLK (As far as I remember) . I find that part to be a bit of an ass pull.

I dunno, by that point she'd already ordered the Apocthary society to develop a plague to extinguish all life on azeroth as well as undead.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Good theory! However, even if the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne (that were stolen from the Forge of Domination https://www.wowhead.com/news=295988/...-of-domination) borrowed powers from the Jailer, the Lich King still built his Scourge from the powers of Maldraxxus (Liches and Abominations) and Revendreth (San'layne and Gargoyles). The Shades, Wraiths, and Revenants might have come from the Maw, but Sylvanas was a "mortal" when she died. Her soul was there, she wasn't some echo/ghost. Also, the Arbiter doesn't consider the residents of those realms to be irredeemable, so it wouldn't make sense to damn someone for something they had no control over. The Arbiter can see all past deeds, thoughts, emotions, and potential when a soul comes across her path, and the Machine of Death wasn't broken back then.

There are a million and one ways to spin this in any direction you want.

A possible explanation as to why undeads might always go to the maw: Imagine you have a machine that makes apple juice from appels, then it's not exactly a stretch to think that the machine might reject you throwing in an apple juice bottle in the apple chute, because it can't process it properly. Maybe sending souls that already have shadowlands properties through the sorting process poses a danger to those shadowland realms because they are already at a tier where they shouldn't be and it's a purely self-protective measurement to keep the system running.

We simply don't know enough about it yet and even if we did from previous sources it might get recontextualized to fit the new lore they are currently spinning.

[shade3891]

Maybe the Valkyr told her about the shadowlands and the maw.

[Dellis0991]

MMO champion posters....MMO....posters

So you think the massive retcon of wow is a sound choice?

[Piamonte]

Yeah we do, blizzard said so... They said that before death "broke" Arbiter specifically sent all the worst, irredeemable souls directly to The Maw... And since death was not broken at that time... How do we know it wasn't? Well, Uther, who was trapped in Frostmourne, got sent to Bastion at nearly the same time Sylvie suicided herself off Icecrown... The only way she ended up in the Maw is because the Arbiter sent her there, and the Maw IS where she went, there's no other way she could have cut a deal with the Jailor, or seen Arthas for that matter if she weren't in The Maw.

Many people speculate it was the void because of the way it was described.

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I have a theory that Lich King's power is actually original Jailer's power that was "borrowed" from the Shadowlands due to a deal made by Legion. In this way, whenever Lich King pulls someone back from the Shadowlands (by making him undead) this person is automatically put in Jailer's domain. Thus, when that person dies again, he/she goes straight to the Maw. This would be consistent with Sylvanas' belief that all undead are damned after death automatically. Mind you, it isn't how Death was SUPPOSED to work in cosmic scale. I suspect our goal in Shadowlands will be to fix it and cause undead to be able to reach salvation.

I like this theory

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And what makes you think that? Because absolutely nothing blizzard has said, to this point has made that even a suggestion. Also that has absolutely nothing to do with the post i quoted. The OP said death broke WHEN they "stole" the helm of domination. Which we know for a FACT is not true.

Is it possible that The LKs creation could have set in a chain of events that lead to death being broken, sure. Maybe. But with the info that BLIZZARD has given us, that is not the case.

Uther is a member of one of the covenants. Kael'Thas is ALSO a member of one of the covenants. So death worked in BC and also worked for atleast most of WotLK. Uther was trapped in Frostmourne until we killed Arthas. So according to this, what we know as *fact*, Death worked some time up the death of LK Arthas and Sylvanus killing herself.

I didnt say that, i said death broke in Legion.

[shadowmatrix]

Isn't it more like a couple thousand years? That's plenty of time to forget things

According to Lucas the universe forgot about the Jedi in less then 20 years so it is possible.

[Yoshingo]

That indicates a clarification on the previous line, not a seperate qualifier.

Yes, that means it's one descriptor, not 2 separate ones.

Did you two just totally not understand that I was pointing this out because people just kept saying, "evil people go there" when the qualifier is evil people who represent a threat to the Shadowlands go there? The threat part is important because of how crucial the balance of anima is to the Shadowlands.

[Schattenlied]

Many people speculate it was the void because of the way it was described.

Which would be wholly incorrect, as Blizzard told us that she struck her deal with the Jailor when she suicided off Icecrown, she couldn't have done that from The Void, she was in The Maw, that's the only place she could have done it.

[Alteiry]

If according to blizzard, Death broke in Legion, doesnt that mean that the place where silvanas went when she commited suicide at the end of Wotlk isnt the Maw??

Undead are cursed, their souls always goes to the Maw regardless of whether death is broken or not.

[Piamonte]

Undead are cursed, their souls always goes to the Maw regardless of whether death is broken or not.

Source? Or just speculation?

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Which would be wholly incorrect, as Blizzard told us that she struck her deal with the Jailor when she suicided off Icecrown, she couldn't have done that from The Void, she was in The Maw, that's the only place she could have done it.

We dont know what the jailer can or cant do for certain.

[Schattenlied]

We dont know what the jailer can or cant do for certain.

Assuming anything else is absurd.

[Piamonte]

Assuming anything else is absurd.

Exactly /10char

[Schattenlied]

Exactly /10char

I think you misunderstood me because I wasn't saying that in agreement with you. I was saying, "Assuming anything other than she was in The Maw is absurd", because we have no evidence to suggest she was anywhere but The Maw.