"The Machine of Death" and what event(s) likely broke it [SPECULATION]

[huth]

They said that it has been broken for the last several years and Argus is maybe a year ago, even in Azeroth time. It would have been too recent.

Where did they say that? I don't remember them ever giving a timeframe, no matter how vague.

[Rumred]

I am not 100% sure the exact moment the machine of death broke but I have a bit of a fan theory on the key events leading to it. Granted I am not 100% up on all lore and info but here goes. We know the jailer can share his power and communicate to some extent from the maw even though he is trapped there. It would stand to reason his plan to disrupt the shadowlands and break the machine of death were not one that would be done in a short amount of time. The first part of his plan that I would be confident in would be making some sort of pact with Helya after her banishment. How soon after is unclear but it is very likely the two have some sort of pact.

The next that I would suspect would be involving the legion coming into possession of the helm of domination and frostmourn. I believe it has been stated both were created in maldraxxus yet the legion came into their possession. My guess would be the jailer played a part in the legion gaining an interest in said items and making their way Azeroth in the creation of the Lich King. The helm being broke of course was the final key but more steps would need to be taken. I suspect the jailer knew that the LK would attempt to break free and in the end sabotage the legions invasion which he did. Another key part of all of this would be the mass amounts of deaths during the third war and in following wars. This could have a build-up and slowly overwell the arbitrators sorting of the souls entering the shadowlands

The next part would be the war with the lich king. It is stated the scourge draws its power from maldraxxus which is the military might of the shadowlands. It is likely as the scourge grew in power it might have drained maldraxxus weakening it and disrupting the balance. Another key would be to have a more suitable LK in place one that would be weaker than Arthas for when the time came. I am unsure how the jailer might have influenced the war with the scourge in wrath but I would not be shocked to find out in books or the expansion story itself he did. At the end of the war with the lich king, he gained a vital ally in Sylvanas.

More large scale death leading up a connection to the alternate timeline. This could have broken the machine of death when souls entered the shadowlands that already existed in the shadowlands. Even if alternate Draenor deaths wouldn’t travel which I am not sure if it has been stated one way or another I have to imagine some of the orcs killed during their invasion in the pre-launch event did already have souls in the shadowlands. That said I find it hard to see the jailers plan to have a part where WoD happens. The point to me where it most likely happens is during Legion as the jailers' plans seem to speed up. If not already confirmed it is highly likely the jailer is behind the voice that had sylvanas made leader of the horde. The four likely events in legion that could have broken the machine of death would be

1. The events in the emerald nightmare
2. The felstorm/portal including the one to argus.
3. Something to do with the Titan Argus
4. The sword impact into Azeroth

Of those, I would lean more towards 2,3 or 4. Unless stated otherwise which It might have been I would think the emerald dream has some sort of connection even passive to the shadowlands but if it does I am not sure how strong it is. Of the remaining three I lean more towards 4 as it leads to the discovery of azurite which lead to the war of thorns/4th war. We know that at least during these conflicts the souls of the fallen were falling directly into the maw. This would mean the machine of death likely broke at the tail end of legion. Of course his final part bringing it full circle was the breaking of the helm when he was powerful enough to grant Sylvanas the power to do so.
Anyway, that is my likely totally wrong theory but it is all I got atm.

[Blayze]

I wonder where Vol'jin ended up. Him being touched by Valour--or however Eyir put it--implies he either went to Bastion or was rescued from wherever he went by a kyrian. This could be true, given he speculates that whoever orchestrated his death wasn't the same force that saved him.

It's possible he was rescued from the Maw and Blizzard just forgot about it.
Or they might not consider it him escaping from the Maw, if he goes right back there after Horde players summon his spirit.

[Combatbutler]

I mean would it surprise anyone if she was doomed to the Maw as soon as Wrath Gate happened?

Kael'thas did worse and did not end up in the maw.

[Nosgoth]

Where did they say that? I don't remember them ever giving a timeframe, no matter how vague.

On one of the Blizzcon panels.

[huth]

On one of the Blizzcon panels.

Which one? When?

[Nosgoth]

Which one? When?

https://youtu.be/-CNyR_F1LTM?t=1234

"In recent years"

[micwini]

They said that it has been broken for the last several years and Argus is maybe a year ago, even in Azeroth time. It would have been too recent.

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I wouldn't call it an event, not in the same way that Sargeras penetrating Azeroth with his sword is.

Honestly if it was any one event, I'd bet on something Sylvanas did that we didn't know about.

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I noticed recently that the lamp that we get in Helheim in order to escape was said to guide the souls to the afterlife or something. So I guess in that way, it would make sense. But then why didn't Sylvanas break it herself? It was clearly not what she wanted.

Because she wanted it for herself. It could have been part of her plan to double cross the jailer. So while breaking it was beneficial for the jailer, it wasn't for sylvanas. Now she needs to play along with the jailer for longer. Possibly.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I don't think there was an actual event that caused this "machine" to break.


I think it was the Jailer and Sylvanas working together - in whatever form or fashion they could - to just simply start funneling souls into the Maw. In the beginning it was no big deal but over time as the Maw swelled with more and more souls... that caused the "machine" to break.


Or at least that is my interpretation: the "death machine" is broken because the Maw has continuously funneled souls into it over the course of years and years with the rest of the realms in the Shadowlands being "starved" so-to-speak. This causes the machine to break.


Now if we are to believe that Sylvanas has been working behind the scenes this whole time to orchestrate events that would cause mass death (Broken Shore, War of Thorns, Burning of Teldrassil, Blood War) then these events directly correlated to the death machine breaking since the Maw would have already been altered to receive 100% of all souls at some point in the past.


"From this point forward, every mortal that dies will have their soul sent to me and me only."
--The Jailer, probably, around WotLK/Cataclysm

[huth]

Or at least that is my interpretation: the "death machine" is broken because the Maw has continuously funneled souls into it over the course of years and years with the rest of the realms in the Shadowlands being "starved" so-to-speak. This causes the machine to break.

Er, no, they were pretty clear on that. The souls all going to the Maw is the part that's broken.

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https://youtu.be/-CNyR_F1LTM?t=1234

"In recent years"

That could be as close as Legion still, though. Sylvanas' deal with Helya happened early in Legion.

[guardian_titan]

A lot probably factors into it since Sylvanas has been allies with the Jailer for a while.

Since we know things started when Sylvanas threw herself off of Icecrown, you can speculate things started when Bolvar took the crown.

The corruption of Ysera and Cenarius followed by their deaths probably play a role.

The Legion and Sargeras likely did some damage.

The lantern Sylvanas tried to get was likely related. Helya's likely also part of it.

Traveling back in time and bringing back some of those people likely affected things the most, though. Gul'dan already died in the main time line. Then he came back from the alternate and died in our time line again rather than in his own. This is likely one of the bigger factors. How does the Shadowlands deal with the death of affectively the same person twice?

Begs the question if the Shadowlands only is relevant to Azeroth or to all worlds, too. Theoretically, if it's only Azeroth, then aliens dying on Azeroth would throw a wench into it, too. Do they go back to their own world's "Shadowlands" or go to the world's their on? Doesn't seem much to suggest Shadowlands is universal unlike the Twisting Nether.

[Destinas]

There could be quite a few events, from huge to small. Could be any of the things listed in the OP, for sure. Excuse the incoming wall of text.

Could be that Sylvanas apparently went to the Maw, then was taken out of it after the events in ICC - despite the fact that we're explicitly told that no one escapes the Maw. She made a deal with the Jailer, which has to do with her connection with the Val'kyr, her deal with Helya, her actions with Eyir, even up to the Vol'jin shenanigans. There's also Teldrassil. Sylvanas apparently did this to, basically, fill up the Maw with souls. A giant influx of souls from Teldrassil, Kul Tiras, Zandalar, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Nazjatar, Arathi, and other areas of Azeroth would likely contribute to the "machine breaking" in the Shadowlands. Which, in the end, could be what her deal with the Jailer really is, for some purpose.

It also could have been all the Vol'jin shenanigans. He was "touched by the hand of Valor" and brought back as some light-spirit-loa, but that was not the same being as the one that told him to appoint Sylvanas as the Warchief. Bwonsamdi seems heavily involved in all of this as well, and is likely not telling the entire story to us. He seemed awfully giddy to get Vol'jin's soul, and seemed terrified when the soul was not in the urn ("the boss ain't gonna like this!"). Bwonsamdi's deal with Rastakhan could have also broken some things, for all we know - though it's unlikely.

All of the happenings in the Shadowlands seem very central to Vol'jin's story anyway, with even spirits trying to keep the truth from us. We're hearing more about this in Shadowlands. Things like spirits being chosen as some sort of "higher being" aren't really random in WoW lore - two beings (or more) affected Vol'jin, for mysterious purposes. One we can guess is the Jailer, working with Sylvanas, which is around the time of Legion. The other? No idea yet.

Hell, this could have even gone back as far as the creation of the Lich King and the Helm - at least, it could have gotten the ball rolling. Considering the fact that Azeroth was irreversibly connected to the Shadowlands like never before all of a sudden, it seems like a pretty big deal. Azeroth went thousands of years connected to the Shadowlands in plenty of other ways (more naturally, I guess?), but that all changed when the Lich King was created. Now, suddenly, the souls of the Shadowlands are being summoned back to Azeroth much more than before (since necromancy was much more rare before the Scourge), and the Helm needs to be maintained at all times, because if it breaks a giant hole rips open in the sky.

It's also interesting that Torghast is somewhat of a dark mirror to the top of Icecrown Citadel - a structure created by the Lich King after the Third War. That could easily be written off that he somehow saw into the Shadowlands and based the citadel after the architecture of Torghast, but it seems deeper than that. Torghast is also directly above Icecrown, thus being a mirror. Once again, that could be written off a number of ways - perhaps the hole/Torghast would appear wherever the Helm was broken, and it just happened to be right above a place that looks like Icecrown Citadel. However, Blizzard tends to make things more painfully obvious than that, so I'm guessing there's a connection there.

However, that all said, that's not around the time of Legion. However, the Ebon Blade's reconciliation with the Scourge/Lich King was around the time of Legion. Frostmourne was remade into two blades - a blade directly connected to souls, made for the Lich King. We have no idea how connected that is to the Shadowlands, like the Helm. Bolvar started to raise more undead again, including red dragons - the dragons with the power of life. It could be that by doing that, it tipped the scales too far, perhaps.

Or, honestly, it could be all of this and more. Any number of things could be a contribution of these events, for all we know. A bunch of Loa dying at once in Zul'Drak and Zandalar? Rastakhan's deal with Bwonsamdi? All the wars all over Azeroth since the Elemental Lords first popped into existence?

[Nosgoth]

That could be as close as Legion still, though. Sylvanas' deal with Helya happened early in Legion.

We weren't talking about the beginning of Legion, we were talking about Argus.

[Dystemper]

Well since our characters can never die I say its been broken long before, But whos to say that Sylvanas is really Sylvanas. When she was turnmed into the Banshee she may have died and something else took over her body and knew her memories. Her soul could be in the SL. Thats just the kind of bad writing I expect from Blizz

[Kyphael]

Power siphoned from Argus would be the best choice to further cement the damage the Legion's legacy has on everything.

The alternate universe fuckery would be the best choice from a narrative point of view to exemplify what an awful idea WoD was, its ramifications on existence itself, and a further mean to close the chapter indefinitely and stake claim it will never happen again. Blizzard already said the AU is collapsing into itself, what better way to say it also broke death so it'll never be done again?

[Alaenore]

Could be that Sylvanas apparently went to the Maw, then was taken out of it after the events in ICC - despite the fact that we're explicitly told that no one escapes the Maw. She made a deal with the Jailer, which has to do with her connection with the Val'kyr, her deal with Helya, her actions with Eyir, even up to the Vol'jin shenanigans. There's also Teldrassil. Sylvanas apparently did this to, basically, fill up the Maw with souls. A giant influx of souls from Teldrassil, Kul Tiras, Zandalar, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Nazjatar, Arathi, and other areas of Azeroth would likely contribute to the "machine breaking" in the Shadowlands. Which, in the end, could be what her deal with the Jailer really is, for some purpose.

Considering the Legion and Sargeras destroyed entire planets, I highly doubt burning a tree and its inhabitants or triggering a few wars on a single planet would break death.

[Felrane]

The Light has made a pact with the Enemy of all. I am wondering if some force of light perhaps a Light lord has been secretly trying to take over the shadowlands. Perhaps the Jailor isn't even the bad guy and has been chained to maw to keep him out of the picture. The Arbiter could be the real villian and is actually sending souls to the Maw to unravel reality freeing the Lords of Light from their realm to do battle with the void again. Which would most likely cause another big bang reseting the universe. Considering that nothing is really left after the Legion....

Side effect is the Jailor is gaining crazy amounts of power but planned ahead with the Lich King to open the doorway for The champions of Azeroth. He might be pulling the whole act like a villian so we can prove ourselves that we have the power to save the Shadowlands and free him from his chains. After we stop the Light from taking over they act on a more physical level leading into the next expansion Light vs Void.

[Foolicious]

Where did they say that? I don't remember them ever giving a timeframe, no matter how vague.

I really don't get it. Everyone is talking about how blizzard said exactly when it happened, but no one is able to bring the receipts.
I watched blizzcon and read the majority of interviews and i don't remember anything about a timeframe being given. Would be really nice if someone could enlighten us.

[Jamie081]

I really don't get it. Everyone is talking about how blizzard said exactly when it happened, but no one is able to bring the receipts.
I watched blizzcon and read the majority of interviews and i don't remember anything about a timeframe being given. Would be really nice if someone could enlighten us.

IIRC they literally said the machine of death broke a few years ago. It was definitely said during the reveal/what's next.

[huth]

IIRC they literally said the machine of death broke a few years ago. It was definitely said during the reveal/what's next.

Apparently it was "recent years". Which really doesn't help us all that much, since it was pretty obvious it had to have happened at some point prior to BfA, or Sylvanas actions would have been pointless.