New raid: PolyU

[Bismarck]

I'm posting this before things escalate further.

Hong Kong universities have turned into fortresses and weapon factories for rioters, if you do some research you'll see that they're creating a post apocalyptic lifestyle and barricading their bases and the police are having difficulties clearing them out, particularly the polytechnic university.
The latest event was the mass arrest of the press and other people around it, and the police have last been spotted loading their rifles and preparing to invade it, either they arrest the people inside or kill them, that's something we will find out, but if it was you, how would you handle the situation as a cop confronting a group of relentless people that are armed with petrol bombs, bows and arrows and other medieval weapons and don't show restraint putting down whoever is not siding with them?
Right now it's 3 AM in Hong Kong.
I'll be posting some updates.

[Hekazi]

I don't know how it got from an extradition bill to this. The violence has grown exponentially and rioters have forgotten their limits.

I would possibly arrest them and avoid casualty even if it will be difficult, even if the country doesn't have the prison capacity to handle this sudden demand because killing them would be taking it a little too far, they're still kids. It's never too late to pass another extradition bill with another country just as courtesy since the future prisoners dislike China, but building the prisons will be costly and will take time.. Hopefully the mainland will help financially, or even give up some territory to build these facilities within newly acquired Hong Kong territory.

[Collegeguy]

The only chance HK's have is to study the Tiananmen Square incident very carefully. Not by barricading themselves in some college.

The people in Tiananmen had the perfect opportunity to overpower the army when the military couldn't get threw the streets because they were so crowded. The chinese army was surrounded and worthless, but people then foolishly let them through, and the military started shooting people afterwards.

They probably should secretly stockpile weapons, keep it on the down-low, and then wait until Beijing comes in years later.

[Monster Hunter]

I don't know how it got from an extradition bill to this. The violence has grown exponentially and rioters have forgotten their limits.

I would possibly arrest them and avoid casualty even if it will be difficult, even if the country doesn't have the prison capacity to handle this sudden demand because killing them would be taking it a little too far, they're still kids. It's never too late to pass another extradition bill with another country just as courtesy since the future prisoners dislike China, but building the prisons will be costly and will take time.. Hopefully the mainland will help financially, or even give up some territory to build these facilities within newly acquired Hong Kong territory.

you don't know ?

the american revolution was over a tax that was repealed but they carried on anyway after all.

the french revolution was caused simply by the deregulation of the grain industry

and the english civil war really started over the king marrying the catholic French princess: Henrietta Maria.

tbh if you look at most revolutions and rebellions its pretty common that the final spark is in hindsight pretty minor, the reason protests become revolutions is because the people grievance is greater than what there actually protesting specifically at the start.

[Bismarck]

you don't know ?

the american revolution was over a tax that was repealed but they carried on anyway after all.

the french revolution was caused simply by the deregulation of the grain industry

and the english civil war really started over the king marrying the catholic French princess: Henrietta Maria.

tbh if you look at most revolutions and rebellions its pretty common that the final spark is in hindsight pretty minor, the reason protests become revolutions is because the people grievance is greater than what there actually protesting specifically at the start.

That's true, but times had changed, we had seen several revolutions this last decade and none of them were legitimate. It was never about people striving for a better future, it turns out everything was nothing other than a political game. Instigators were often foreigners who abused a country's minor flaws, allowing the situation to escalate and then justify their involvement. A true patriot would never weaken his country and make it vulnerable to any forms of external abuse even if the situation was dire.
The rioters have been losing the support of local residents anyways and the population is not entirely against its government but the typical Hong Konger is silenced by the growing violence.

[Elegiac]

That's true, but times had changed, we had seen several revolutions this last decade and none of them were legitimate. It was never about people striving for a better future, it turns out everything was nothing other than a political game. Instigators were often foreigners who abused a country's minor flaws, allowing the situation to escalate and then justify their involvement. A true patriot would never weaken his country and make it vulnerable to any forms of external abuse even if the situation was dire.
The rioters have been losing the support of local residents anyways and the population is not entirely against its government but the typical Hong Konger is silenced by the growing violence.

I hope y'all realise that this is nothing but apologia for the People's Republic of China being an authoritarian police state, if the use of the term "rioters" wasn't a clue-in.

They're protesters, not rioters.

[PosPosPos]

That's true, but times had changed, we had seen several revolutions this last decade and none of them were legitimate. It was never about people striving for a better future, it turns out everything was nothing other than a political game.

Too bad, you don't actually buy into the bullshit you spew here, because you are literally playing the very political game you mention here instead shutting up and letting actual HKers decide whether the revolution should continue.

If you truly believe in something, don't criticize others for perceived failures while doing them yourself.

A true patriot would never weaken his country and make it vulnerable to any forms of external abuse even if the situation was dire.

So you basically assert any civil violence or war to overthrow a tyrannical government is "unpatriotic", of which subsequently reveals your actual agenda - your support of authoritarian regimes, and that "peace" is just emotional blackmail to that end.

- - - Updated - - -

I hope y'all realise that this is nothing but apologia for the People's Republic of China being an authoritarian police state, if the use of the term "rioters" wasn't a clue-in.

They're protesters, not rioters.

Eh, these authoritarian apologists have already gone so far to call dissidents and protestors as terrorists, "rioters" is pretty tame by comparison.

[Hekazi]

you don't know ?

the american revolution was over a tax that was repealed but they carried on anyway after all.

the french revolution was caused simply by the deregulation of the grain industry

and the english civil war really started over the king marrying the catholic French princess: Henrietta Maria.

tbh if you look at most revolutions and rebellions its pretty common that the final spark is in hindsight pretty minor, the reason protests become revolutions is because the people grievance is greater than what there actually protesting specifically at the start.

This drifted into something I haven't wished for. If the rioters win, the newly appointed government will ask for Western support and the US will legally deploy troops in another country which aligns with their efforts to become an imperial nation and Hong Kong is a strategic spot overlooking the entire South China sea, a place that the US regards as a future battlefield.
If the government stays, then that will be better for the wider and more peaceful population, and for the world since it will delay a 3rd world war by at least a couple years, until the US finds a new initiative. They secured Bolivia's Lithium, Venezuela's oil and recently captured Syria's oil fields. You can tell they're wanting to go to war, and I'm standing with China just for that.

[Elegiac]

This drifted into something I haven't wished for. If the rioters win, the newly appointed government will ask for Western support

Protesters.

Why do you think that is, exactly?

[Hekazi]

Protesters.

Why do you think that is, exactly?

I can't really call them protesters, they burned an old man and killed another. They're not protesters because they took it upon themselves to beat up and potentially cleanse the city of people that weren't sharing their views, actual civilians and not the government, as if they were feeling superior. That's a red flag for me and I can't hope to see good things from this mentality anytime in the future.
Why ask the West for support you mean? I'm a bit confused, since when was the West the global police?
Would you tolerate Chinese presence in Venezuela, Bolivia or Cuba? Or, imagine this, Mexico? If it doesn't go both ways then I'm not even gonna consider it.

[PosPosPos]

I can't really call them protesters, they burned an old man and killed another.

Hilarious when you unironically hold protestors, who are basically common citizens, to a far higher moral and ethical standard to the government.

And even then, assuming what your account is true, and they only gone so far to burn an old man and kill one "another", they are already heaps better than a government that has oppressed the general citizenry for decades and more.

That's a red flag for me and I can't hope to see good things from this mentality anytime in the future.

Nice bit of psychological projection from you. A chinese idiom comes to mind that perfectly describes you and your ilk:恶人先告状

[Hekazi]

Hilarious when you unironically hold protestors, who are basically common citizens, to a far higher moral and ethical standard to the government.

And even then, assuming what your account is true, and they only gone so far to burn an old man and kill one "another", they are already heaps better than a government that has oppressed the general citizenry for decades and more.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same country here. You could be misinformed about Hong Kong, or we just define oppression differently. You probably can't hope to light up a petrol bomb before getting shot in your not so oppressive nation.

Nice bit of psychological projection from you.

No need to get all wacky now. Just tell me what you hope to benefit from this, or is your life just too boring you appreciate some live action?

[PosPosPos]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same country here.

Oh, I am sure you know we are talking about the same country here. I would say being intentionally obtuse is bad, but it's not like good faith is high up on your agenda anyway.

You could be misinformed about Hong Kong, or we just define oppression differently.

Well, you are at least right about the second, you probably think China is the bastion of personal freedom and autonomy, but aside from authoritarian zealots like you nobody in the right mind really thinks that way.

You probably can't hope to light up a petrol bomb before getting shot in your not so oppressive nation.

Hmm, I wonder why that is....maybe it's because I am not actually being oppressed by my government unlike Hong Kongers, that I don't see a reason to strike back against the leadership? I know, cause-and-effect is a shocking concept to you.

No need to get all wacky now. Just tell me what you hope to benefit from this, or is your life just too boring you appreciate some live action?

Oh, another quaint bit of psychological projection from you. How about you ask yourself the same question as to what you hope to benefit by kissing the ring of China's tyranny and pushing for the modern day reenactment of Tienanmen Square?

[Elegiac]

I can't really call them protesters, they burned an old man and killed another. They're not protesters because they took it upon themselves to beat up and potentially cleanse the city of people that weren't sharing their views, actual civilians and not the government, as if they were feeling superior. That's a red flag for me and I can't hope to see good things from this mentality anytime in the future.
Why ask the West for support you mean? I'm a bit confused, since when was the West the global police?
Would you tolerate Chinese presence in Venezuela, Bolivia or Cuba? Or, imagine this, Mexico? If it doesn't go both ways then I'm not even gonna consider it.

No, why would Hong Kong feel the need to ask for intervention from the West if they got self-government?

[Xarkan]

No, why would Hong Kong feel the need to ask for intervention from the West if they got self-government?

Flip side of that is

Since such would endanger the security of China how could China allow it?

In fact once the idea is spoken how can the end that China accepts be anything other than decreased self government for Hong Kong?

[HugsForFree]

In the immortal words of the late, great Bob Marley " Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights. Get up, stand up, dont give up the fight".

Fuck the chinese authoritarian dictatorship.

[Elegiac]

Flip side of that is

Since such would endanger the security of China how could China allow it?

In fact once the idea is spoken how can the end that China accepts be anything other than decreased self government for Hong Kong?

That's entirely the point. It's against the PRC's self-interests to allow Hong Kong democratic self-government because the PRC is a totalitarian state.

The question is fundamentally one of liberal democracy versus authoritarian oligarchy; i.e. is the survival of the People's Republic of China as it current exists is worth the humanitarian costs?

And the answer for anyone who believes in human dignity should be a clear and resounding "fuck that noise". Not every call for democratic government is an American imperialist plot.

[Xarkan]

That's entirely the point. It's against the PRC's self-interests to allow Hong Kong democratic self-government because the PRC is a totalitarian state.

The question is fundamentally one of liberal democracy versus authoritarian oligarchy; i.e. is the survival of the People's Republic of China as it current exists is worth the humanitarian costs?

And the answer for anyone who believes in human dignity should be a clear and resounding "fuck that noise". Not every call for democratic government is an American imperialist plot.

I am not saying i would not wish for a different outcome in case that sounded like it

I merely question wether China can/will allow it

[Biochem92]

I'm posting this before things escalate further.

Hong Kong universities have turned into fortresses and weapon factories for rioters, if you do some research you'll see that they're creating a post apocalyptic lifestyle and barricading their bases and the police are having difficulties clearing them out, particularly the polytechnic university.
The latest event was the mass arrest of the press and other people around it, and the police have last been spotted loading their rifles and preparing to invade it, either they arrest the people inside or kill them, that's something we will find out, but if it was you, how would you handle the situation as a cop confronting a group of relentless people that are armed with petrol bombs, bows and arrows and other medieval weapons and don't show restraint putting down whoever is not siding with them?
Right now it's 3 AM in Hong Kong.
I'll be posting some updates.

This is hell, 4chan posted a vid of an interview where the guy on camera suddenly got immolated. You gotta know that fighting these communist regimes always lead to this. The media will tell you its because of one form a shallow detail of democracy or another. The actual answer will scare you though, the very quality of life in Hong Kong is in jeopardy. The countless death toll of communism through human rights abuse is usurped by the wasted potential, the wasted lives that go through the system. These people fight because the history books tell them the only truth to tell here. God Bless the Hong Kong rebels, but im afraid even God cant save them now ><

[Yadryonych]

I'm posting this before things escalate further.

Hong Kong universities have turned into fortresses and weapon factories for rioters, if you do some research you'll see that they're creating a post apocalyptic lifestyle and barricading their bases and the police are having difficulties clearing them out, particularly the polytechnic university.
The latest event was the mass arrest of the press and other people around it, and the police have last been spotted loading their rifles and preparing to invade it, either they arrest the people inside or kill them, that's something we will find out, but if it was you, how would you handle the situation as a cop confronting a group of relentless people that are armed with petrol bombs, bows and arrows and other medieval weapons and don't show restraint putting down whoever is not siding with them?
Right now it's 3 AM in Hong Kong.
I'll be posting some updates.

How would you handle the situation?

As a Hong Kong police? Arrest at the very least.

As Mainland China? Keep doing nothing and watch this amusing shitshow of hong kong problem solving itself by rapid collapsing of this quasi-state, then move in the troops after it becomes total humanitarian disaster.