Kick + deserter debuff, why ?

[Raetary]

That's disrespectful when you could just by a simple click, switch to your actual DPS spec and help out to complete the run faster

I haven't touched shadow since the end of wod.
I have no idea how to play the goddamn spec nor do i have any gear for it.

I quite literally do more dps and am 15 times more tanky playing discipline than i would ever do and be in my dps spec.


Tell me, how exactly am i being disrespectful?

[TwoMana]

So because I sometimes enjoy various parts of the game you don't enjoy, that makes me a "casual". It doesn't change the fact that tanks, most of the time, bring less to the table than healers in IEs.

Lol. Well ok then. Enjoy getting kicked.

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I quite literally do more dps and am 15 times more tanky playing discipline than i would ever do and be in my dps spec.

As a disc you're basically a dps anyway. You're naturally excused. But for every good disc player there's 15 holy priests, insisting they bring something fantastic to IE's by just standing there and healing and all they end up doing is wasting everyone time.

[FecundDecay]

I haven't touched shadow since the end of wod.
I have no idea how to play the goddamn spec nor do i have any gear for it.

I quite literally do more dps and am 15 times more tanky playing discipline than i would ever do and be in my dps spec.


Tell me, how exactly am i being disrespectful?

Your justifications are largely irrelevant.

If you have no idea how to play the single DPS spec your class provides, then do not que for groups as the DPS role.
If you have no idea how to play a spec you want to role que for - spend the quite literally 15-20 minutes it takes to read a guide.
If you have been playing since at least as far back as WoD and neglected to inform yourself about how Shadow works, that is on you.

You may "quite literally" do more dps as disp than YOU would do on Shadow - but Shadow as a spec is quite literally capable of putting out several times the amount of damage when played properly as a HEALING SPEC. In the time it takes you to finish a single run as Disp, you could have read a quick guide or watched a quick YouTube video and learned how to play your DPS spec to a higher damage capacity than you are dishing out on Disp.

Consider, also, that Shadow doesn't REQUIRE its own set of gear unless you are running top-tier content, simply switching your spec will suffice. If you ARE doing this in top-tier content where your stats and azerite traits will make a big difference, then you are screwing over your group even more by trying to DPS in a healer spec.

Your behavior is disrespectful because this is an MMO with other people, and you behave as if you are entitled to do whatever you want at their expense simply because you can't be bothered to take 20m out of your day to ensure you know how to play the role you want to que up for. You're knowingly gimping yourself - and by extension gimping the whole group run - seemingly without consideration for the other HUMAN BEINGS you are playing with.

So yes. I'd agree that sounds pretty disrespectful to them.
Perhaps you should consider switching to single player games where your actions don't negatively impact anyone but yourself?

[Raetary]

If you have no idea how to play the single DPS spec your class provides, then do not que for groups as the DPS role.

?????????????????


I think you might want to read to whom and what i replied to.

Islands don't have role queue.

[Ebalina]

I went on a WotLK private server and that behaviour was quite common. The tank would be like "kick me" and I would be like "leave. We are not going to kick you. Do the dungeon or get deserter" and I would say to the dps "do U want to spend another 20 mins waiting while a tank queued?" Tank always stayed then.

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It's a group decision. If you want to queue as the wrong spec that is on you, not other people. You deserve deserter for trying to get an unsolicited carry.

There is no such thing as wrong spec.
If the spec is available to be qued with there is nothing wrong with it.

[FecundDecay]

?????????????????


I think you might want to read to whom and what i replied to.

Islands don't have role queue.

Islands are even more of a poor argument for that behavior - they do not follow the typical group makeup or role requirements, and thus having a healer at all in 90% of those runs is nothing short of a handicap. You would still, without a fraction of a doubt, be serving your group better by switching to shadow - doing some actual dps - and using shadow mend to throw out a heal or two if and when your group actually needs that. Running as holy or disp is just reducing your group's ability to get through the island as fast as they should be able to - so expecting them not to care is absurd.

The only healing spec that could arguably get away with going into islands is Resto druid because they have access to Balance and Feral affinities - however that would still be putting the group at a slight disadvantage they are not obligated to accept simply because you don't want to take the time to learn your DPS spec.

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There is no such thing as wrong spec.
If the spec is available to be qued with there is nothing wrong with it.

Actually - whatever the group decides is the wrong spec is, in fact, the wrong spec.
As it is in the group's hands to make that choice, and vote someone out if they agree on that choice, clearly there is something "wrong with it" in their eyes.

If I can get kicked out of a 5-man dungeon run on my TANK for trying to TANK and asking the dps who qued as dps not to TANK, simply because they group voted on it... Then you can rest assured a group is justified in kicking someone out who queued as one role and insists on playing a spec designed for another role.

Whether you or I like it or not, Blizz has made their stance on this pretty clear many times - if the group decides to kick someone out, they require no justification or approval for it. That's how the system is designed, and it's working as intended. The spec may be "available to que" on simply to allow people the option to run with that group comp - that does not OBLIGATE other people to accept or agree with your spec choice, and they have the vote-to-kick function there when they do not like or agree with it.

Dems the breaks. Either accept it, or take the time to learn the spec people want you playing. Simple fix.

[Raetary]

Running as holy or disp is just reducing your group's ability to get through the island as fast as they should be able to

The only healing spec that could arguably get away with going into islands is Resto druid because they have access to Balance and Feral affinities

You never played a disc priest in the last 2 expansions, did you?

[Ebalina]

Islands are even more of a poor argument for that behavior - they do not follow the typical group makeup or role requirements, and thus having a healer at all in 90% of those runs is nothing short of a handicap. You would still, without a fraction of a doubt, be serving your group better by switching to shadow - doing some actual dps - and using shadow mend to throw out a heal or two if and when your group actually needs that. Running as holy or disp is just reducing your group's ability to get through the island as fast as they should be able to - so expecting them not to care is absurd.

The only healing spec that could arguably get away with going into islands is Resto druid because they have access to Balance and Feral affinities - however that would still be putting the group at a slight disadvantage they are not obligated to accept simply because you don't want to take the time to learn your DPS spec.

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Actually - whatever the group decides is the wrong spec is, in fact, the wrong spec.
As it is in the group's hands to make that choice, and vote someone out if they agree on that choice, clearly there is something "wrong with it" in their eyes.

If I can get kicked out of a 5-man dungeon run on my TANK for trying to TANK and asking the dps who qued as dps not to TANK, simply because they group voted on it... Then you can rest assured a group is justified in kicking someone out who queued as one role and insists on playing a spec designed for another role.

Whether you or I like it or not, Blizz has made their stance on this pretty clear many times - if the group decides to kick someone out, they require no justification or approval for it. That's how the system is designed, and it's working as intended. The spec may be "available to que" on simply to allow people the option to run with that group comp - that does not OBLIGATE other people to accept or agree with your spec choice, and they have the vote-to-kick function there when they do not like or agree with it.

Dems the breaks. Either accept it, or take the time to learn the spec people want you playing. Simple fix.

What ever you like it or not its not how it works.
You have a right to kick a player if you do not like him/her or the spec they play but the spec is no way wrong if you can que with it.
Otherwise you would not be able to use that spec to join the LFG tool at all.
Therefor the spec is not banned/ignored and allows you to join the group, what ever happens after that has nothing to do with the spec but the spastics you are put in grp with who ultimately decide your faith.

Because you can be kicked as healer dps and tank therefor what you are saying is invalid and you are wrong.

[Marrilaife]

Except more often than not, I see people abusing it to troll or grief. It happens A LOT in island expeditions. You're a healing spec in islands? Time to kick you just because I think you're worthless and give you a debuff.

Please if you're healing spec in islands at least loot the damned chests / bags and mine the azerite. Kthx.

So many healers just go "on follow", throw some rejuvs and don't do anything else while forcing tanks / dps to go around and loot stuff causing unnecessary downtime while they could be pulling more and killing stuff while the healer is cleaning up the loot.

No, I don't kick them, only kick people who train too many mobs (especially ones that fear / stunlock) they can't handle and cause the whole group to wipe and lose time. Or blatant afk.

But it's goddamn annoying, if you're a healer or lowest geared dps, you should be looting everything and make yourself useful that way. Also do the quests, usually the item is 5 meters from the guy and it's more azerite than a chest.

[bullseyed]

It doesn't change the fact that tanks, most of the time, bring less to the table than healers in IEs.

I'm sure all the people who are good at the game are secretly wrong and you've found the island secret.

[Nnyco]

Except more often than not, I see people abusing it to troll or grief. It happens A LOT in island expeditions. You're a healing spec in islands? Time to kick you just because I think you're worthless and give you a debuff.

To be fair, you are pretty useless except to click on azerite for me as healer.

[arkanon]

So because I sometimes enjoy various parts of the game you don't enjoy, that makes me a "casual". It doesn't change the fact that tanks, most of the time, bring less to the table than healers in IEs. Every time I've been in an island with a tank, they pull massive groups, die, blame everyone else, and get the other two people killed. As soon as a tank starts pulling massive groups in islands, I immediately vote kick them.

I couldn't disagree with this more. I have no issue with tanks or healers in an IE group, but to suggest that a healer, outside of using / abusing the item, is even remotely comparable to a tank is just silly. No one in their right mind believes this, and no even half decent player believes this, let alone top tier players. Healers in an IE are fine, its not a problem, but a tank brings so, so much more to the group than a healer - namely substantial AOE dps, often higher than the dps themselves. They also alow dps free reign to aoe dps without fear of aggro and collect Az.

The problem with your argument is it relies on an extreme example that you ONLY apply to the tank - pulling "the entire island". Why do you not apply that same extreme to the healer? What if the tank plays well, and the healer is afk? what if the tank pulls large, manageable groups, in a sensible order and at a good pace, while the healer runs around healing themselves and doing nothing?

[BloodSense]

But tanks can pull the whole island in one go. Healers can't. Stop this. It's just idiotic.

I main a vengeance DH. I immediately kick any DPS in my island expeditions, because while I'm capable of sustaining 50k aoe dps, and killing 20+ mobs at once, dps at max can kill 10 at a time, less if there are elites, and I'm tired of carrying them. /s

[quez]

That's incredibly stupid. It's impossible for me to gather enough mobs to die in guardian spec (and I don't do heroic anymore, just mythic and pvp).

Yeah that's BS. It doesn't matter how geared your tank is, you won't survive an island worth of mobs unless you're in a group with a healer or you kill the pack within 10sec. My alt guardian druid has done up to court on mythic and I can easily die in mythic islands if i pull too much or combinations of certain packs.

I main a vengeance DH. I immediately kick any DPS in my island expeditions, because while I'm capable of sustaining 50k aoe dps, and killing 20+ mobs at once, dps at max can kill 10 at a time, less if there are elites, and I'm tired of carrying them. /s

I kick everyone in my group and just use rabbit's foot instead.

[TheRevenantHero]

That's on you then for not taking advantage of having a healer by pulling more. Sure it's not as smooth as with a tank, but a healer can keep you up through larger pulls while collecting everything around the area for you (Something a tank can't do due to being constantly hit).



That isn't any better than voting to kick healers though. It's just as silly, some tanks are cocky and overpull yes.
Some are decked out though and just want to get their islands done with. Give them a chance.

I kick any tank that overpulls and dies. Literally immediately vote kick.

[crazyman2]

If you're kicking people off of islands for spec, you're an asshole, the end.

I prefer having a tank to a healer, but a healer allows the group to make the same large pulls as a tank would. As long as they're doing some looting and literally not just following you around like a bot, there's nothing wrong with it. And if they are, you should be done in a few minutes anyway.
Sticking somebody with a 30 minute debuff because your island took 30 seconds longer than it should have is just being an awful person.

[Amaterasu65]

It's veeeery abusable. 2 days ago I was in Ankahet on my warlock and on the way to the 3d boss (the one that sacrifices followers), while clearing the mobs, I wrote " 3d boss can be skipped", insta kicked. It was my first and last words.

Today 2 of my friends told me that they waited for 18mins to enter a tw very late the night before, they enter the dungeon and are lucky enough to join during the trash before the last boss. They were playing priest and rogue respectively. A shaman asks the tank what's his favorite color, he says yellow. The rogue is kicked. Then they tell the priest that they are lucky they weren't kicked because they have kicked 8 people so far. The priest doesn't say anything, then gets kicked mid-fight. The rogue got 30mins queue cooldown and the priest got less.

All in all, 2 different experiences that weren't even provoked by the afflicted parties. Sad.

[Trend]

Yeah that's BS. It doesn't matter how geared your tank is, you won't survive an island worth of mobs unless you're in a group with a healer or you kill the pack within 10sec. My alt guardian druid has done up to court on mythic and I can easily die in mythic islands if i pull too much or combinations of certain packs.

Guess you're bad then and you should thank your raid for the carry. Maybe use your abilities and don't stand in stuff? LOL, I never come anywhere close to dying.

[TheRevenantHero]

That's incredibly stupid. It's impossible for me to gather enough mobs to die in guardian spec (and I don't do heroic anymore, just mythic and pvp). But you would vote to kick me because you don't understand how the game works? You sound like the most toxic player around.

I've been in so many groups where someone in tank spec pulls like 20 adds, dies(which gets everyone else killed), then blames everyone else for not doing enough dps. So as soon as a tank dies to overpulling, I just vote kick them.

[Protean]

Except more often than not, I see people abusing it to troll or grief. It happens A LOT in island expeditions. You're a healing spec in islands? Time to kick you just because I think you're worthless and give you a debuff.

Healers in island expeditions are the worst. Multiple times I've managed to be grouped with two of them. Yeah great fun doing all the work.