Only 4 new zones, no new races, no new class

[Byucknah The Red]

6 new zones*

The 4 covenant zones, The Maw, and then the hub city zone which we are not sure if will ONLY be a city or if it will have its own zone as well.

[TheRevenantHero]

That's absolutely not what I'm doing though. I'm not talking about quality. At all. I'm only talking about the mechanic(s) used to tell the story. How good or bad those stories were is a matter of subjective opinion.

As I said, just because there is a lot of something doesn't make it good. I'd rather only a few zones and such that are well done than just a smattering of garbage.

[jellmoo]

As I said, just because there is a lot of something doesn't make it good. I'd rather only a few zones and such that are well done than just a smattering of garbage.

Which is a 100% fine opinion to have. What we may have in Shadowlands is Blizzard's attempt to "split the difference" between quantity and quality. We'll see. I'm certainly not advocating that Legion storytelling was amazing.

[TheRevenantHero]

Which is a 100% fine opinion to have. What we may have in Shadowlands is Blizzard's attempt to "split the difference" between quantity and quality. We'll see. I'm certainly not advocating that Legion storytelling was amazing.

Oh Shadowlands is going to be complete trash from a story perspective due to the sheer amount of lore they're retconning for the expansion.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Timeless Isle had no content. It was just a small zone full of mobs and no story and no quests. It was their first attempt at giving players a zone in a patch that had minimal effort put into it with no quests and no storyline. They continued that into the expansions that followed and haven't had a proper patch zone since.

Tanaan Jungle was supposed to be a max level zone in for launch and look what happened to it in that patch. A handful of "quests" that they stretched out over 4 weeks to hide the fact it had nothing going for it.

Broken Shore campaign was laughable. Just quests like "find 3 treasures" and "do 8 world quests". It was content designed to waste your time, not to tell a story.

Argus barely had any story and quests, but was definitely better than the previous patch zones.

And Mechagon has only repetitive dailies, and Nazjatar barely had any story at all.

Visions of N'zoth won't even have a new zone. Instead they are reusing old zones to waste people's time with cockblock scenarios, that tell you to fuck off after a certain time.

so the timeless isle didn't have a catch up for alts two world bosses rares to kill for varying rewards a new pvp system where you could kill your own faction a pet battle dungeon and little mini games?

the broken shore also didn't have world quest and wasn't added in a patch with 12 class story lines apparently.

argus also didn't have a full story line and three mini zones full of quest rares and other things.

Nazjatar also have no events rares world bosses ect apparently.

but sure if you close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears no content has been added to the game ever

[arkanon]

Heres my opinion, for what its worth. I am comfortable with the perceived lack of new features, but only if they follow through on some changes that i personally think would benefit the game greatly. I would like to see extensive changes to the classes, and a return to classes specializing in certain scenarios. This means "balance" will be objectively worse compared to now, but that is something i personally WANT to see. I have been very vocal in my opinion that the pursuit of 'perfect balance', driven in large part by the communities demands for it, have led to the dull and lifeless feeling many specs/classes have.

Secondly, i would love to see some pretty major changes to loot distribution and acquisition, to something closer to earlier expansions.

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Wait.. You're actually still playing 8.2?


WoW has never had good balance. Ever. They are quite literally known in the MMO industry as some of the worst at handling balance.

There is a difference between you claiming that "bad players" just blame Blizzard when they play bad and the WoW raiding statistic sites like Warcraft logs consistently showing the same fucking specs over performing raid tier after raid tier.

Generally when discussing balance, and in particular class representation in raids / m+, i find many people make the mistake of only looking at VERY high end statistics (mythic raiding and high keys). Once you start looking at the meat and potatoes of the wow player base, class distribution becomes much broader and more inclusive.

Is there an issue? Certainly in some content, yes. Currently there is very little content for a pure ST dps spec, and mobility and utility are very highly valued in healers, and all classes.

I also think the "bad balance" thing is not really fair, because no other MMO has content even remotely as intensive as what wow offers. Nothing is tuned as tight, certainly not in a raid format. Other games have FAR superior pvp, but i wouldnt class them as an mmo. The issue with comparing wow to other mmo-s is that it really is in its own league as an overall, complete offering.

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Oh Shadowlands is going to be complete trash from a story perspective due to the sheer amount of lore they're retconning for the expansion.

Im not a 'lore' guy, so forgive me for not knowing, but what are the major things being retconned that concern you the most?

[Echeyakee]

Heres my opinion, for what its worth. I am comfortable with the perceived lack of new features, but only if they follow through on some changes that i personally think would benefit the game greatly. I would like to see extensive changes to the classes, and a return to classes specializing in certain scenarios. This means "balance" will be objectively worse compared to now, but that is something i personally WANT to see. I have been very vocal in my opinion that the pursuit of 'perfect balance', driven in large part by the communities demands for it, have led to the dull and lifeless feeling many specs/classes have.

Dunno, I would rather settle for mediocre class than roll the dice on being one of the classes/specs that does not get to have fun this time around. Especially when there are classes like rogues and mages that get a lifetime pass for fun, one way or another.

[Eapoe]

I have a feeling that they had another idea after BFA, started work on it until it became clear it would not be done in time and pivoted to shadowlands. It was probably a world revamp or something. That’s why shadowlands is behind in development and has the bare minimum of features.

So your theory is they didn’t have time to finish one project so they announced another project that’s not finished instead?

[Revamp Man]

I think people are totally missing how different the game is going to be once they change the level cap to 60. I think that in itself, quantifies as a whole new game, and enough of a feature in and of itself to learn and get used to.

The changes that this will do to each class and spec will be the most dramatic we have ever seen. I think that alone is enough to work on, let alone adding a new class to the mix to make this transition even more confusing.

I'm by no means a Blizzard apologist, but I'm glad they are not introducing a new class. Because if they did, it would be utter trash, due to Blizzard not being able to juggle that many large things at once.

They aren't adding any talent Rows and as far as I can tell we are just getting old stuff back

The leveling aspect is neat.... unless you have every class capped

[Nephys]

I think people are totally missing how different the game is going to be once they change the level cap to 60. I think that in itself, quantifies as a whole new game, and enough of a feature in and of itself to learn and get used to.

The changes that this will do to each class and spec will be the most dramatic we have ever seen. I think that alone is enough to work on, let alone adding a new class to the mix to make this transition even more confusing.

I'm by no means a Blizzard apologist, but I'm glad they are not introducing a new class. Because if they did, it would be utter trash, due to Blizzard not being able to juggle that many large things at once.

You mean that changing the number that appears near your character profile is gonna profoundly change the way you play the game? You realize that the other numbers will remain the same right?

[FurryRedVixen]

I believe FF14s Savage raids are abit more tuned then wows raids are.

They put the Grand Philharmonica to shame with how tuned those Savages are o.o

[Neuroticaine]

This is honestly the first expansion in the past 3 that FEELS like its at least going to respect my time. I don't need a bunch of bullshit, I just want a solid leveling experience and a good raid experience. That's all. Like a solid 5/10 leveling and 7/10 raid experience that doesn't require me investing ungodly amounts of time in content I have no interest in to stay on par with everyone else.

[arkanon]

I believe FF14s Savage raids are abit more tuned then wows raids are.

They put the Grand Philharmonica to shame with how tuned those Savages are o.o

When you say tuned, you are suggesting FF14 raids are HARDER than mythic raids?

[The Butt Witch]

Hopefully that's Blizzard being beaten over the head trying to learn that Classic and making their game more of an RPG with character building is the way to go.

Unless you're implying that these boards are somehow stupid for criticizing retail, when classic outnumbers it currently.

Classic doesn't outnumber it. Where did you get that idea? Classic is just a fad and lots of people already left.

[Nosgoth]

so the timeless isle didn't have a catch up for alts two world bosses rares to kill for varying rewards a new pvp system where you could kill your own faction a pet battle dungeon and little mini games?

the broken shore also didn't have world quest and wasn't added in a patch with 12 class story lines apparently.

argus also didn't have a full story line and three mini zones full of quest rares and other things.

Nazjatar also have no events rares world bosses ect apparently.

but sure if you close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears no content has been added to the game ever

Catch up, pet battles, rare spawns and world quests have no story.

[Merin]

I don't mind the content spread, I just cast severe doubt on Blizzard's talent to polish and mold it into a respectable package.

Most of the games focuses are rarely a problem, it's just execution. The class design has rarely impressed in this game but it's absolutely fallen to shambles in recent years. There's next to nothing on the market that isn't drastically better in this regard.

I thought for years it had to be some conspiracy, some measure to keep people rerolling and keep subs going but now I just think the talent to even make something as basic and rote as trinity MMO class is completely beyond the current development team.

[unbound]

Plenty for the "casual" crowd. The tower is for solo or group play. Anyone can make progress and get legendaries. Nothing "hardcore" about it.

Rebuilding/strengthening covenants and finding soulbinds is perfect "casual" content that will last.

Mog hunting, pet battles, LFR, dungeons, questing, WQs, and all the existing stuff that "casuals" do will still be in the game.

But go on and explain to us how there is nothing for "casuals."

As a casual, let me provide you with a dose of reality.

I have zero interest in xmogs or mini-games inside of the main game (aka pet battles). I also abhor LFR...even as a casual, I've led raids (yes, successfully) in the past (I know for people like you, casuals are incompete morons; sorry to burst your bubble).

Questing and WQs are simple parts of any game...that isn't something special to point to.

That leaves dungeons and raids. Blizz has announced 4 leveling dungeons and 4 top level dungeons. That (and everything else about Shadowlands) is staggering laziness, and, as a result, I will not be giving them $40, $60, or $80 on top of a monthly subscription to support that level of non-effort.

[Beefhammer]

As a casual, let me provide you with a dose of reality.

I have zero interest in xmogs or mini-games inside of the main game (aka pet battles). I also abhor LFR...even as a casual, I've led raids (yes, successfully) in the past (I know for people like you, casuals are incompete morons; sorry to burst your bubble).

Questing and WQs are simple parts of any game...that isn't something special to point to.

That leaves dungeons and raids. Blizz has announced 4 leveling dungeons and 4 top level dungeons. That (and everything else about Shadowlands) is staggering laziness, and, as a result, I will not be giving them $40, $60, or $80 on top of a monthly subscription to support that level of non-effort.

One, you are completely wrong on how I perceive what a casual is, hen why I put it in quotations. So sorry to ruin your assumption. Two, I consider myself a casual. I view the casual player as someone who picks up the game and just plays.

They can raid but may not take it as serious as the progression raider, they can run mythic+ but may not be serious about being the best or reaching the highest keystone. They may not participate in any group activity and just enjoy being in the world. The only thing I find that differentiates someone who considers themselves a casual player vs one who considers themselves a hardcore player is how serious they take their in game activities.

I used to be a serious raider, pushed server firsts, spent way too much time prepping and reading on strats, or watching vids when thise became the norm in addition to spending, sometimes 5 hours a night 4-5 nights a week working on raids. After ICC I stopped, raided in our alt raid nights until we just left, made our own guild and just raided with no pressures until HoF when I stopped playing.

So yeah, there is plenty for casual players to do. I have to ask, what actually separates SL from any other expansion for you? What did you do before that you were content with doing that is not available to you in SL? You seem to not like anything other than dungeons and raiding. SL will have 8 dungeons to start and plenty of raids.

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They aren't adding any talent Rows and as far as I can tell we are just getting old stuff back

The leveling aspect is neat.... unless you have every class capped

Correct. The level squish is more for new and returning players. This is not going to change anything for current level capped characters other than getting some more abilities. For new players or returning, each level will have a reward of some sort, a new talent, spell, or whatnot. Pluse the ability to only have to do one area of content to hit current content is huge.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Catch up, pet battles, rare spawns and world quests have no story.

It’s almost like the story isn’t the only content in the game.

[FurryRedVixen]

When you say tuned, you are suggesting FF14 raids are HARDER than mythic raids?

Yes and no at the same time.

What i mean is they are really difficult, as in extremely as you get very little telegraph time, and no telegraph at all in most cases. The tuning is also very very tight as ive seen savage more often then not, come down to seconds before enrage timer, consistently. Even seen a few where we killed the savage boss as the enrage went off, both boss and raid died at same time.

(Keep in mind, ff14 savage enrages are not OH BIG BOSS HIT HARD IT ONE SHOTS, no its big boss had enough of your crap and hits the kill all button.)