Chinese Army deployment in Hong Kong

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

I feel that list is flawed in that it only counts a number of "guns". Not type. I've got a feeling that the US would have a far higher ranking on non-hunting weaponry than the others.
And a stupidly higher amount of "for self defense" ownership.

You'd be surprised at the amount of fine military hardware that seeped from the former Yugoslavia into the whole of Europe (and continues doing so).

On the legal side, a number of countries in Europe have/are seeing growing registrations in shooting practices, in part because in some it is a prerequisite for gun ownership.

One key aspect, is that for several centuries most of continental Europe shared a distinctive cultural phenomenon : mass conscription, which for most was a byproduct of the Revolutionary Era and the rise of Nationalism. Until WW2 it was perfectly normal to own any kind of firearm in most if not all countries, the first restricting it being the dictatorial ones, with some exceptions (guess which subgroup was first forbidden the private ownership of firearm in interwar Germany?). The rise of massive guerrilla and resistance movements in occupied Europe was only possible due to a good number of available weapons and non inept users. Only after the conclusion of WW2, did some major countries restrict firearms ownership, where there was significant communist representation, for the left feared that reactionaries would be able to rise up against them if they were to be able to seize power democratically, and the right in turn feared that revolutionaries would be able to insurrect if the communists were to be able to seize power undemocratically. Other countries, which had less of an interior communist problem, but much more of an exterior one, developed huge militia-based armies and military-industrial complex during the Cold War respective of their sizes.

In my country, which is a rather extreme example of militia based army in the middle of Europe (dating back 700 year), in theory every 19y old youth is handed down a full auto assault rifle that become his personal weapon for about 10 years : after boot camp, he will take it home with the rest of his gear, be asked to go to shooting practice at least once as a civilian, and he will be called back for a month of service every year. Some years ago we were even handed down a can of ammo to store at home, the idea being to use it in case of war. After ending their service, those interested enough in shooting as a sport will be allowed to keep their gun, modified for semi-auto.

In the 90s they were clearing here the 500k inventory of WW2 era rifles, you just had to be a citizen and you could buy up to 2 for 100$ a piece with the bayonet (my dad got me one, wish we had gotten more). Roughly at the same time, there was an add in some magazine aimed at diplomats for crates of AK47 at 30$ apiece. Then later Yugoslavia broke up, and despite being a Communist dictatorship, they had some kind of a decentralized militia based military, which allowed for all the infighting, but also resulted, decades later, in vast amounts of fine weapons (AKs, RPGs, grenades, etc...), being available under the mantle all around Europe (in France legal ownership is such a hassle and expensive, more and more people simply don't bother anymore and get illegal AKs).

(the Brits are another story, for the longest time even their army was professional and their cops had no firearms).

Significant is a very relative term. In US its significant, 4-6 times higher than others, the rest aren't. Vast majority of them in those countries are hunting rifles anyway, not something you'll see in densely populated area.

Back to original point, there are plenty of democracies that have fewer guns per person than China. Then if you look at Asian countries in particular, they have very small gun ownership rates, yet most of them are democracies. So whole point of post I quoted is invalid.

Same as above.

There are many more democracies that have more guns per person than China. Now indeed if you look at Asian countries, and ignore Thailand which has the peculiarity of being the only one not having undergone colonization/unequal treaties, a good number will indeed have very small gun ownership rates, but notice that many are either former British or French colonies, and/or part of the Sinosphere, where it has nothing to do with democracy but with the long, very long history of power and the monopoly of violence in those lands : swords to plowshare/buddhas policies have been an instrument of power in both China and Japan since their very unifications, millenias/centuries before the advent of local civic liberties, and characteristic of the very pronounced top-down of their power structures, opposite to historical bottom-up aspirations in the West.

BTW, its in Hong-Kong that my asian-side forefathers sought and found refuge and arms for their fight against their colonial masters.

[Remilia]

Incorrect in both these cases they were never called nor was the basic law enforced. They did community service in both occasions.

The only ones having a fit over it are a bunch of white guys sitting in the US and EU and a few activists. The fact they cleaned up had no affect on anybody and yet everybody got their virtual panties in a twist over it. Yeesh....talk about over reaction.

Yeah misread that, and that is still in violating of what the PLA is allowed to do.

And seriously, over reaction and some weird reason to bring race into it (I'm not even white)? This entire thing has been china pushing what they can / can't do. Of course people are going to scrutinize it and rightfully so.

[Hif]

Yeah misread that, and that is still in violating of what the PLA is allowed to do.

And seriously, over reaction and some weird reason to bring race into it (I'm not even white)? This entire thing has been china pushing what they can / can't do. Of course people are going to scrutinize it and rightfully so.

And a lot of times it is literally nothing. The way china is being treated is the way Russia was treated in the eighties, serbia in the 90s and muslims after 9/11. There is a lot of bad that they do but not everything is bad. But it is merely a way to devise the masses.

As an example in the country I am currently working, China has brought in development at an outstanding rate, with people getting jobs, having money to send their kids to school and they pro-actively hire women. Of course all you hear about is bad Chinese loans. Ignoring the fact that a majority of the loans owed are to the US and the West.

The point being not everything China does is bad, and more importantly in this case, they did nothing bad. No views were changed. But a bunch of westerners and specifically white authors (better?_ had a heart attack for no reason.

Also nothing illegal in community service. You don't need permission to clean up after infrastructure is destroyed. Like how the Japanese clean up their stadiums after football matches.

[Remilia]

And a lot of times it is literally nothing. The way china is being treated is the way Russia was treated in the eighties, serbia in the 90s and muslims after 9/11. There is a lot of bad that they do but not everything is bad. But it is merely a way to devise the masses.

As an example in the country I am currently working, China has brought in development at an outstanding rate, with people getting jobs, having money to send their kids to school and they pro-actively hire women. Of course all you hear about is bad Chinese loans. Ignoring the fact that a majority of the loans owed are to the US and the West.

The point being not everything China does is bad, and more importantly in this case, they did nothing bad. No views were changed. But a bunch of westerners and specifically white authors (better?_ had a heart attack for no reason.

Literally has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Also nothing illegal in community service. You don't need permission to clean up after infrastructure is destroyed. Like how the Japanese clean up their stadiums after football matches.

They are the army, they are not allowed to do such things unless called upon. Whether you think it is right or wrong is one thing, however breaking the law implemented deserves scrutiny, especially given the situation.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Looks like china got enogh of protestors. I wonder if citizens will pull the weapons out on china police tho.

No use. Can't resist the inevitable. It'll only give the CCP an excuse to hasten their escalation.

Unless Hong Kong receives military aid from another country, there will be no stopping the CCP.

So why are we upset now?

Just because you can't take action to stop evil doesn't mean you can't still be upset about it. Spreading awareness can certainly help. It plants seeds in the minds of anyone who learns about it in a negative light.

https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/co...n_potentially/

This seems a bit too familiar...

Everyone crying wolf about China forgets that west did as much if not more bad stuff. West has no moral high ground to stand on. While China dealt with its own territories, west committed genocide on multiple continents. South America is in ruins because of US interference. Millions died in Middle East because of US interference. How many died in Vietnam?

Whataboutism indeed.

[szechuan]

No, its hypocrisy. Saying that other nation is bad because they did something, while also doing same thing.

It isn't especially when the people are asking for help.

[szechuan]

This event was orchestrated by US, so it got special attention and massive media coverage.

Yet Joshua Wong a notable person representing the Protesters says otherwise.

Doesn't mean they represent majority.

Joshua Wong represents the majority of Protesters asking for the 5 demands to be met.

[szechuan]

Yes, he does. But do those protestors represent majority of HK population? Doesn't look like it.

Yes it does

Meanwhile, 75 per cent, 74 per cent and 81 per cent of the respondents in the three surveys supported political reform in order to ensure that the whole of Hong Kong’s legislature and its chief executive be democratically elected.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a9158061.html

Of course he does. Its not good for his image. Yet there are photo evidence to say otherwise

Yet the people in power won't let Joshua Wong run for office which looks even worse for them.

[szechuan]

You must have linked wrong article because it doesn't say what you quoted.

What you quoted addresses only 1 demand out of 5, its not about protests and doesn't mention number of people surveyed and doesn't show actual surveys.

And you're Naive to think this is not what the majority of Hong Kong people want especially when this is the biggest Protest Crowd Hong Kong has ever seen.

[szechuan]

Shiny pictures. Yet how big of HK population? Its over 7 million. Those pictures are not even 1% of it.

And you're naive to think the majority of Hong Kong people don't care about their Democracy, Civil Liberty, and their National Identity as a Hong Konger.

Do you have any Evidence that Hong Kong people don't care about their Democracy?

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Its very similar to how media shows immigrants here in Europe. They show only women and children, yet they are small minority.

This was not a Small Minority, again ignoring that this was the biggest protest Hong Kong has ever seen with an Alleged Million Protesters?

[szechuan]

Riot leaders have changed their goals for sake of continuing riots. First goal was about extradition law, which was solved. Then they changed it to more demands, including unreasonable demands to deal with housing that they know cannot be solved.

LMAO "unreasonable demands"

Yeah Those Protestors are such a Minority that China keeps freaking out and arresting Pro Democracy Lawmakers and Barred Joshua Wong from running office.

TLDR, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

They have achieved initial goals long time ago.

And they acted to slow.

Supporting that and supporting riots are two different things.

Who said Joshua Wong supported the rioters he was supporting the Pro Democracy Camp which is what Hong Kongers want and you're Naive enough to believe they don't want Democracy.

Joshua Wong a notable member of the Protesters asked for help, there is no hypocrisy in that matter, you're grasping Straws.

Recent riots are not for democracy or independence

The Rioters are for Autonomous Democracy, You're contradicting yourself.

[szechuan]

What else do you think about demands for new housing? On island that has been overpopulated. Where do you think such housing would be built?

So ignoring the Fifth Demand?

One has nothing to do with another. They are arrested for riots, just like they would be in any other country. In what country would riots, acts of violence and destruction of property have any different outcome?

The Pro Democracy Lawmakers were not arrested because of Rioting. Nor was Joshua Wong arrested for Rioting, you should stop listening to Commie News Daily.

Just think about what you posted. How does speed of response change anything? It doesn't. Demands were met. "Acted too slow" is not an excuse.

Yes it is.

They continued riots because they wanted riots for sake of rioting in first place. If government met latest demands, they'd also claim that government acted too slow and would add even more demands.

And you're wrong, the protesters realized that Beijing would not stop infringing on their rights as this is not the first time this has happened and it will not be the last until they Give Hate Kongers Democratic Autonomy.

[szechuan]

D Why are you ignoring the rest of demands?

I'm not, the just pointing out that Democracy is the main reason they are protesting which you're clearly ignoring.

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they continued riots because they wanted riots for sake of rioting in first place.

Again their doing it because they want Democracy.

How does that justify their demands? I mean all of them, not selectively one demand.

Again they're doing it because they want Democracy, why do you keep ignoring the most important aspect of the five demands?

This is a Pro Democracy Protest.

[szechuan]

- Other demands, which seem to be added for sake of adding demands and continuing riots.

Wrong, the five demands were made in the middle of the Extradition Protests.

- "Too late" excuse for continuing riots.

The Demands were not met, The Five Demand Protests didn't start out as Riots.

- Meeting with CIA, which shows who really is behind it all.

LMAO.

It shows that they are not people to be reasoned with and will continue their riots no matter what.

It shows you're completely ignorant about Hong Kongers and the issues between Hong Kong and Beijing.

[szechuan]

Too much western propaganda and too little critical thinking is bad for mental health.

Says the person listening to Pro Commie Beijing News.

No, it shows that you are gullible and think if anything has word "democracy" plastered all over it, it must be a good cause by good people.

You're the one listening to Commies.

And you're being completely ignorant by suggesting Hong Kong won't be able to handle democracy.

[szechuan]

If you think China is communist, it really shows your lack knowledge and that you are brainwashed by western propaganda. China has one party system, but it is not communist. Just because they didn't do a suicide system collapse like USSR did to move to capitalism, doesn't mean they are commies. One party system that is similar to dictatorship - yes, commies - no, capitalism - yes.

They're not Commies, they're Authoritarian Capitalists that have an Emperor for Life, that's better how?

Did you already forget all the Draconian Anti-Freedom legislation Xi Jinping enacted among it's populace especially when they Silence any Journalistic Criticism of Xi's Administration by purposely lowering their Credit Score?

[Corvus]

They're not Commies, they're Authoritarian Capitalists that have an Emperor for Life, that's better how?

Did you already forget all the Draconian Anti-Freedom legislation Xi Jinping enacted among it's populace especially when they Silence any Journalistic Criticism of Xi's Administration by purposely lowering their Credit Score?

They are probably closer to full on fascists now.

Authoritarian? Check.

Ultranationalist? Check.

State controlled economy that accepts a mix of public and private ownership? Check.

Scapegoating and repression of ethnic and religious minorities? Check.

The emphasis of national rebirth and modernisation? Check.

Reclamation of what it sees as historical borders? Check.

[Mormolyce]

If you think China is communist, it really shows your lack knowledge and that you are brainwashed by western propaganda. China has one party system, but it is not communist. Just because they didn't do a suicide system collapse like USSR did to move to capitalism, doesn't mean they are commies. One party system that is similar to dictatorship - yes, commies - no, capitalism - yes.

Hong Kong on the other hand is capitalist to the bone. One of the major conflicts here really.

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No, it shows that you are gullible and think if anything has word "democracy" plastered all over it, it must be a good cause by good people. Too much western propaganda and too little critical thinking is bad for mental health.

It isn't of course, but in this case I can't see how anyone could sympathise with Emperor For Life Xi Jingping.

[szechuan]

US elected Trump and don't have democracy either - just 2 parties taking turns in shilling for different corporate interests.

Is that why Americans can vote for whoever they want?

That's why some of their demands don't make sense - they want government assistance for housing and don't want capitalism.

Government Assistance is not Anti-Capitalism.

Which is another red flag for riot organisers, showing that they have no interest in ever stopping riots and were just waiting until government had enough of their bullshit.

You would be completely wrong.

[Mormolyce]

Indeed they are. That's why some of their demands don't make sense - they want government assistance for housing and don't want capitalism. Which is another red flag for riot organisers, showing that they have no interest in ever stopping riots and were just waiting until government had enough of their bullshit. If you think those demands are reasonable, make some riots in Bay Area or Seattle that have same issues and see how it ends.

You realise all capitalist countries have government assistance for housing right?