Sylvanas = The Titan inside Azeroth?

[Destinas]

Wasn't Argus the Titan of Death or supposed to be? Wouldn't that explain his face more? Though your idea of the damage to him makes sense as well I just thought the face would match his role.

That's a possibility. He's only called the "death titan" in the files (and one of his moves was renamed from "Grasp of the Death Titan" to "Grasp of the Unmaker" from the PTR to live), meaning that that may not be his actual role among all the other Titans. Though, he absolutely uses death-related abilities, which the visuals were reused for Bwonsamdi, Gorak Tul, Drust, and Necromancers in BfA. So, not out of the question.

There's another theory as well, which is that he wasn't fully "formed" yet when we encounter his world-soul in the Seat of the Pantheon. Which would also make sense. There's no official word on why he looks the way he does. Alex Afrasiabi called Argus and Outland both "death titans" at Blizzcon 2017, but Outland isn't a Titan at all, so that's iffy information as well.

For transparency, I always figured the damage to Argus' world-soul was from the damage to the planet. It's just speculation on my part, since it matches well. But other theories involving his abilities and formation are also valid at the moment.

[Sagenod]

Her reaction to holding Azerite for the first time and our glimpse into her mind while that was happening, I think is fair proof that Sylvanas is not Azeroth. She wouldn't be phased in such a way by her own congealed blood.

[qwerty123456]

Her reaction to holding Azerite for the first time and our glimpse into her mind while that was happening, I think is fair proof that Sylvanas is not Azeroth. She wouldn't be phased in such a way by her own congealed blood.

But what if it isn't her blood? What if its Sargeras's spunk? It did say he fell in love with Azeroth.

[Topornic]

There have been many hints pointing towards Sylvanas being Azeroth. And by Azeroth I mean the Titan Soul that rests inside the planet.


1. Sylvanas said that This world is a prison. Literally. Since Sylvanas' titan body and probably fragments of her soul still reside inside the planet.


2. Sylvanas predicted that Sargeras would thrust his sword in Azeroth when she said In the end, death claims us all. She was talking about herself. She knew she was dying.


3. Magni the Speaker never lift a finger against Sylvanas. Doesn't make sense... until you realize Sylvanas is Azeroth and she has been ordering Magni around.

4. The developers have said that Sylvanas isn't Garrosh 2.0. That means she's not evil. She still kills a lot of people. Why? Because those people are her burden to bear. Literally. Teldrassil might've been consuming the planet's life energy. That is why Sylvanas burned it.

5. The Jailor might know how to save Azeroth. He made a deal with Sylvanas. If Sylvanas brings enough people to the Maw The Jailor will cure her.

6. Verimathras and Gul'dan were talking about Sylvanas. They knew she's the world soul and tried to kill her. But we protected Sylvanas without knowing the truth.

7. None of the titan keepers ever mentioned that there's a titan living inside the planet. Why? Cause they saw Sylvanas and thought that everyone knew she is a titan.

Have you guys found any other hints?

1. This could make sense, but it doesn't actually prove anything. It might as well mean that Sylvanas knows that Azeroth is imprisoned, whatever the reasons might be. Knowing something wouldn't mean she is somehow Azeroth.

2. That quote is old af and also is quite universal for all mortal beings. We are born with a death sentence.

3. I think that is because of gameplay and other writing reasons. He would have to actively engage players to oppose their own factions as both factions started mining. In 8.0. we should have both dethroned Anduin and Sylvanas following that logic. Also both the Alliance and traitors turned against Sylvanas when the Azerite business has been pretty much done.

4. That is also a stretch. Not being Garrosh 2.0. doesn't mean she's not evil at all. Hell, for me Garrosh until merging with Y'shaarj wasn't evil either. They also said Sylvanas is "morally grey". Lot of bs on their part.

5,6 and 7. That is just following your asumptions without any proof whatsoever.

My theory for long time has been that Azeroth is either imprisoned or asleep and Shadowlands is kind of her engine. Blizzard also speaks hinting at this. Souls and stuff are fuel. When enough fuel is fed Azeroth could be freed or awakened. I actually also speculated that Old Gods might be emanations of Azeroth, not void lords. Creating curse of flesh to make beings on Azeroth mortal to keep the engine rolling. I imagine Azeroth might not be so benevolent as we think it is.

- - - Updated - - -

Her reaction to holding Azerite for the first time and our glimpse into her mind while that was happening, I think is fair proof that Sylvanas is not Azeroth. She wouldn't be phased in such a way by her own congealed blood.

Also that. Unless they would've gone with Venom like plot where if you touch Azerite it might infect you and take control.

[Icoblablubb]

1.) somewhat makes sense if that theorie would be true .. but thats it the rest is just big fat NOPE

[Houle]

You can't fool us with a side account, Christie Golden.

lol'd hard

[TheRevenantHero]

If this theory was true, I would legitimately unsub, uninstall, and never look at the game again. It reeks of Christie Golden's shitty writing and I hate it.

[huth]

Jaina the 3rd? Or does it only count when we die and have to be brought back?

Losing != Not winning. Besides, forcing Jaina to retreat would be considered a win for the Horde, given that their primary objective was to end the Siege of Dazar'alor, not killing her.

[Raisei]

If this theory was true, I would legitimately unsub, uninstall, and never look at the game again. It reeks of Christie Golden's shitty writing and I hate it.

I have no idea where that came from, Golden never wrote anything as absurd as this, in fact her stories rarely even touch on supernatural subjects more then is necessary in a fantasy setting, she is clearly writing character stories not world-defining revelation stories. But alas, many people just jump the hate train because of boredom.

All this reeks of is another apologistic attempt to give Sylvanas' evil genocidal and now omnicidal deeds and goals a paint of righteousness that they do not have and do not deserve.

1. Sylvanas said that This world is a prison. Literally. Since Sylvanas' titan body and probably fragments of her soul still reside inside the planet.

No titan has ever claimed that their status as a planet was a prison. It is more like a cocoon or and eggshell protecting them until they matured. The reason she says this is because she feels contempt for every mortal being and their hope, when she herself can feel nothing but despair. She wants to break the cycle of life and death (probably) so she is no longer threatened by the Maw that terrifies her so.

2. Sylvanas predicted that Sargeras would thrust his sword in Azeroth when she said In the end, death claims us all. She was talking about herself. She knew she was dying.

A completely general statement. Of course death claims us all at some point. She predicted nothing that is not obvious to any mortal being there. Azeroth on the other hand DID actually predict the sword stab, during a quest in Legion with Magni in Scholazar Basin, she talked about bloody sand and a sword.

3. Magni the Speaker never lift a finger against Sylvanas. Doesn't make sense... until you realize Sylvanas is Azeroth and she has been ordering Magni around.

Magni is neutral after his ressurection. All he cares about now is the survival of Azeroth, Sylavanas' war is very much secondary to that. At least during BFA his focus was on world-ending threats: Azerite, G'huun (even here only very marginally, Brann did most of the stuff), maybe N'zoth now. He very much sees where his priorities should be, namely on preventing the very planet under our feet from dying. Sylvanas' war on hope and life only hinders that.
Her complete indifference to that issue kinda breaks your entire theory. She conciously decides to not save "herself" by only sending some Tauren so they are out of her hair? She is confronted with her own blood (Azerite) and instead of being worried about bleeding to death, she tells Goblins to mine more and use it to make weapons? Like... what?

4. The developers have said that Sylvanas isn't Garrosh 2.0. That means she's not evil. She still kills a lot of people. Why? Because those people are her burden to bear. Literally. Teldrassil might've been consuming the planet's life energy. That is why Sylvanas burned it.

1) You do not have to be Garrosh to be evil. Weird I know. There have been many many more evil people besides Garrosh. Maybe you heard about the Lich King guy, has a bit of history with Sylvanas IIRC? Or that dude, what was the name, Sargera...something, did something with demons and fire, so hard to remember.

2) Let's say that your theory is not completely absurd for a moment, that still does not give Azeroth/Sylvanas the right to just murder a tree full of innocent elves. If it was the tree, she could have forcefully evicted the elves after taking Darkshore and THEN burned it. Instead she had a mental meltdown after hearing the word "hope" and just went full on genocide mode.
Argus the Unmaker wanted to kill us, we ended him for that. Sargeras wanted to end all life, did we just roll over and allowed him to, because he was a titan? Noooope.
If this ridiculous idea is true then it does not make Sylvanas any less evil and we will kill her for it.

5. The Jailor might know how to save Azeroth. He made a deal with Sylvanas. If Sylvanas brings enough people to the Maw The Jailor will cure her.

She is actively weaponizing and profiting of the wound Sargears inflicted to Azeroth while only sending a few Tauren to solve the issue. Everything indicates that she either does not care or actively wants Azeroth to die. Considering her hatred of the living the last one is more likely.

6. Verimathras and Gul'dan were talking about Sylvanas. They knew she's the world soul and tried to kill her. But we protected Sylvanas without knowing the truth.

1) How in all the world would Gul'dan know this? How? He is not even from Azeroth let alone our timeline. He probably saw Sylvanas for the first time on the Broken Shore. And If you are saying Sargears knew it and told him then it makes even less sense. He could have very easily converged all his forces on her position on the Broken Shore and killed this "Azeroth" or capture her. His war against the forces of Azeroth makes no sense if he knew this "fact", he could have send all his ships to Orgrimmar and nuked the city till only Sylvanas is left standing...

2) Varimathras is only gloating about how evil Sylvanas is, nothing more. He after all worked with her and got betrayed by her during the Wrathgate incident (or he betrayed her), nothing he says allures to anything more then her being a patient evil monster waiting for the right moment to cause maximum damage. His own experiences in other words.

7. None of the titan keepers ever mentioned that there's a titan living inside the planet. Why? Cause they saw Sylvanas and thought that everyone knew she is a titan.

Oh yes, obviously. And when Eyir called her specifically a "traitrous Banshee" that was to keep her cover intact because of Genn in the shadows, yes? And Helya threatening her becomes so funny. Helya threatening a Titan. Of course. And why would Eyir even resist? As a servant to a Titan Watcher specifically tasked with protecting Azeroth she should be eagerly doing what ever Sylvanas wants.

Let's add a few reasons why this is nonesense:

1) Sylvanas died. She died and went to the Maw. Titans do not die completely as Legion showed, their essence remains. And it is ludicrous to assume that Arthas had the power of corrupting a Titan World Soul and turn it into a Banshee in the first place. Sargeras needed MILLENIA to corrupt Aggramar and did not even manage to do the same to the the others.
2) Sylvanas commands the Forsaken, that spread blight wherever they can. They are poisoning Azeroth every chance they get. One would think that Sylvanas would disagree with that practice if she were Azeroth. Much like she would disagree to using her very blood as a weapon and dealing even more damage by mining more Azerite.


There is more but I am so tired reading these threads that deny that Sylvanas is nothing more then a evil psychopathic villain and instead attribute god-like powers to her along with the right to decide who lifes and who dies by her whim. Everything so that the fanboys can believe that their Dark Lady is something more then what is obvious...

[Zulkhan]

Behold, the newest troll account has once again graced the Lore section with its invaluable contribution.

[Aucald]

Is it ever explicitly stated that the being she met after jumping off Icecrown, screaming in agony was Arthas?

I was thinking it might be Argus, the potential Titan of death she saw in there, since he was probably being tortures by the Legion around that time too

There were others in the darkness. Things she didn't recognize, because nothing so terrible could exist in the world of the living. Claws tore at her, but she had no mouth with which to scream. Eyes looked at her, but she couldn't look back.

Regret.

She sensed a familiar presence. Recognized it. The taunting voice that had once held her in its grasp. Arthas? Arthas Menethil? Here? His essence rushed to her, desperate, then shrank away in horrified recognition. The boy who would be Lich King. Just a scared little blond child, reaping the aftermath of a lifetime of mistakes. If any part of Sylvanas's soul were not at that moment torn and tormented, she might have even felt—for the first time—the slightest glimmer of pity for him.

In the grand landscape of all the world's suffering and all the evils of the infinite, the Lich King was… insignificant. (Source)

[naeblis495]

Silly you , all of those info were from the Titans's perspective. In reality , Sylvanas was Elune the whole time .

[Sneaksies]

There have been many hints pointing towards Sylvanas being Azeroth. And by Azeroth I mean the Titan Soul that rests inside the planet.


1. Sylvanas said that This world is a prison. Literally. Since Sylvanas' titan body and probably fragments of her soul still reside inside the planet.


2. Sylvanas predicted that Sargeras would thrust his sword in Azeroth when she said In the end, death claims us all. She was talking about herself. She knew she was dying.


3. Magni the Speaker never lift a finger against Sylvanas. Doesn't make sense... until you realize Sylvanas is Azeroth and she has been ordering Magni around.

4. The developers have said that Sylvanas isn't Garrosh 2.0. That means she's not evil. She still kills a lot of people. Why? Because those people are her burden to bear. Literally. Teldrassil might've been consuming the planet's life energy. That is why Sylvanas burned it.

5. The Jailor might know how to save Azeroth. He made a deal with Sylvanas. If Sylvanas brings enough people to the Maw The Jailor will cure her.

6. Verimathras and Gul'dan were talking about Sylvanas. They knew she's the world soul and tried to kill her. But we protected Sylvanas without knowing the truth.

7. None of the titan keepers ever mentioned that there's a titan living inside the planet. Why? Cause they saw Sylvanas and thought that everyone knew she is a titan.

Have you guys found any other hints?

This is reaching for me, thats saying something