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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Sygmar View Post
    Ahem, Tauren paladins?!

    That ship has sailed a long time ago.
    They. Are. NOT. Paladins. They are druids using light magic and in game that is represented through paladin and priest. In lore they are not paladins but dedicated enough to their craft that they were invited to either the priest or paladin order halls. Heck, both Tauren Paladins and Priests are called Sunwalkers.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Something, something, tripping the light fantastic.
    Honestly, there was always something about the Light and Void element potential that grated me. And I believe it has to do with how Blizzard handled the Legion having some form of dimensional power over time. If anything should have had that it would be the immediate proprietors of Light and Void. And honestly... I do not think the Naaru are the most primal of Light, either. Voidlords we don't know much about, but I think there is more beyond Naaru. Blizzard making the Legion able to do the same feels very... Lowest common denominator for such a transcendent power.

    Rant aside, as much a the community as a whole likes the idea of the AU timeline becoming collapsed, I think Blizzard may be keeping it around to revisit for another stupid reason or another. And honestly, I think Yrel may be the catalyst to it. And I think once we hit the Void/Light expansion we may see a shift in the guard (at least fr the expansion) of how players can re-choose their allegiance to a different faction within the Light and Void.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    All right, I conceded I was wrong regarding Nazis not reciting religious passages (Christian particularly)
    I appreciate your concession on this. Having said that,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    but the fact that Nazism was predominantly rebuked by pretty much every Catholic/Christian country in the world (that made up the Allied Powers) and only supported by the Axis (Italy, Romania, Bulgaria) is evidence that it wasn't a religious crusade as much as an Aryan political agenda.
    Whether or not Western Christianity rebuked Nazism is irrelevant to the fact that the Nazis evoked Christianity to start a holy war.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    I appreciate your concession on this. Having said that,



    Whether or not Western Christianity rebuked Nazism is irrelevant to the fact that the Nazis evoked Christianity to start a holy war.
    They cited passages to support their message and rally their base, but not just Western, but most Eastern European countries and Brazil, Christian/Catholic countries completely rejected their ideals. To say it was a Holy Crusade and Holy War is like saying the South's reluctance to accept abolishing slavery was some holy war, because Southerners also erroneously cited religion to suppress African Americans by saying they aren't equal in the eyes of God, but that was just a front to the real reason, that being slavery was the cornerstone of the Southern economy. Likewise, the Nazi movement started with the National Socialist German Workers' Party feeling their pockets getting shallower from foreign businesses moving in. They just started using God's name and citing religion to make their cause noble. "God says so" can garner much more moral support than "They took our jerb!"

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    They cited passages to support their message and rally their base, but not just Western, but most Eastern European countries and Brazil, Christian/Catholic countries completely rejected their ideals.
    All of this is irrelevant. Nazis used Christianity as a basis for their war against Jews. Literally end of discussion.

    My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. ...
    - Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922
    Last edited by Daymanmb; 2019-11-20 at 02:22 AM.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    All of this is irrelevant. Nazis used Christianity as a basis for their war against Jews. Literally end of discussion.
    Not really, no, when it's well documented Nazism was a far-right political party in Germany that supported the ideology of National Socialism. Hitler didn't have some official position in the Christian or Catholic church that represented them. He was a politician at best by layman's terms. He just recited religion, no different than a politician today reciting religion to garner support, it doesn't make it religious-driven. The Nazi Party emerged from the German nationalist, racist and populist Freikorps paramilitary culture, which fought against the communist uprisings in post-World War I Germany. The party was created to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.

    Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric, although this was later downplayed to gain the support of business leaders, and in the 1930s the party's main focus shifted to anti-Semitic and anti-Marxist themes. The party aimed to unite "racially desirable" Germans as national comrades, while excluding those deemed either to be political dissidents, physically or intellectually inferior, or of a foreign race (Fremdvölkische).

    Religion was recited but neither the originator, nor the central point. He relied as much on pseudo-scientific racist theories to support his message than religion. Like I said, Hitler using God to support his argument is not unlike Southern Generals saying African Americans were not made in the eyes of God. It does not come from an official position of power in the Catholic or Christian faith.

    Yrel's crusade was purely Light-driven. The Nazi party was political and racist in nature.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Not really, no, when it's well documented Nazism was a far-right political party in Germany that supported the ideology of National Socialism. Hitler didn't have some official position in the Christian or Catholic church that represented them. He was a politician at best by layman's terms. He just recited religion, no different than a politician today reciting religion to garner support, it doesn't make it religious-driven. The Nazi Party emerged from the German nationalist, racist and populist Freikorps paramilitary culture, which fought against the communist uprisings in post-World War I Germany. The party was created to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.

    Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric, although this was later downplayed to gain the support of business leaders, and in the 1930s the party's main focus shifted to anti-Semitic and anti-Marxist themes. The party aimed to unite "racially desirable" Germans as national comrades, while excluding those deemed either to be political dissidents, physically or intellectually inferior, or of a foreign race (Fremdvölkische).

    Religion was recited but neither the originator, nor the central point. He relied as much on pseudo-scientific racist theories to support his message than religion. Like I said, Hitler using God to support his argument is not unlike Southern Generals saying African Americans were not made in the eyes of God. It does not come from an official position of power in the Catholic or Christian faith.

    Yrel's crusade was purely Light-driven. The Nazi party was political and racist in nature.
    Southern Generals wernt using their professed superiority to exterminate black people. Its apples and oranges. The ultimate goal of the Nazi party was to exterminate Jews in the name of the Christian god, not the working class..
    Last edited by Daymanmb; 2019-11-20 at 02:50 AM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Southern Generals wernt using their professed superiority to exterminate black people. Its apples and oranges. The ultimate goal of the Nazi party was to exterminate Jews.
    Apples and oranges? It's all racism in disguise. They hated them because they cost them money, and were pushing political beliefs that didn't jive with a nationalist agenda. The parallels are uncanny.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Apples and oranges? It's all racism in disguise. They hated them because they cost them money, and were pushing political beliefs that didn't jive with a nationalist agenda. The parallels are uncanny.
    How exactly did Hitler and the Nazi's "disguise their racism"(bigotry more accurately)? You understand those quotes from Mein Kampf predate the Nazi party and were fundamental to it, right?

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    How exactly did Hitler and the Nazi's "disguise their racism"(bigotry more accurately)? You understand those quotes from Mein Kampf predate the Nazi party and were fundamental to it, right?
    Bigotry and racism are synonyms.

    Yes, but reciting religious messages does not make Nazism anything but a political party in definition. If those quotes predate the Nazi party as you so aptly described it, how is it integral to Nazi identity if it predates the rise of the party, which as evidenced, was created for political reasons above all? I'm not saying Nazis aren't Christian or Catholic, but they don't represent the faith in any official capacity, and their party was politically-driven. Hitler was a politician invoking religious beliefs along with his pseudo-scientific theories, as well as nationalist ideals to push the party's political agenda. Again, not unlike any present day political party that uses God or recites religious passages to garner support and rally a base, it doesn't mean they're trying to start a holy war.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Bigotry and racism are synonyms.

    Yes, but reciting religious messages does not make Nazism anything but a political party in definition. If those quotes predate the Nazi party as you so aptly described it, how is it integral to Nazi identity if it predates the rise of the party, which as evidenced, was created for political reasons above all?
    Because it was said by the fascist dictator, Hitler who lead the party with an iron fist. Mein Kampf was Hitlers manifesto and the party was a reflection of him. Hitlers politcal aim was a means to an end, in order to implement his "final solution", which was the total extermination of Jews. Do you not know these things? I dont understand...
    Last edited by Daymanmb; 2019-11-20 at 03:11 AM.

  12. #112
    Nazi's are a terrible example for Yrel. Taliban, Iran, maybe a crusader state or two, Alabama... all better options.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Because it was said by the fascist dictator, Hitler who lead the party with an iron fist. Mein Kampf was Hitlers manifesto and the party was a reflection of him. Hitlers politcal aim was a means to an end, in order to implement his "final solution", which was the total extermination of Jews. Do you not know these things? I dont understand...
    Yes, extermination of Jews for a political agenda, he wasn't appeasing any religious power or doing it for his own faith, at least not above his own bigoted ideologies. If you break it down to its barest components, he was a racist that garnered too much political power by playing on people's own fears and equally racist views. Citing God's name or religious beliefs sugar coated it. It was still a political agenda.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Yes, extermination of Jews for a political agenda, he wasn't appeasing any religious power or doing it for his own faith, at least not above his own bigoted ideologies. If you break it down to its barest components, he was a racist that garnered too much political power by playing on people's own fears and equally racist views. Citing God's name or religious beliefs sugar coated it. It was still a political agenda.
    To think some people believes the Nazis are some kind of crusaders must be really bad. Also Yrel is the last hope of the alliance ironically
    Last edited by Zandalariprelate; 2019-11-22 at 02:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    I bet the ragnarok is going to be the six forces against each other. Though I hope to see their heralds still lurking. It's not thebsame to face all the chaos without the demonic primarches
    I hope we will get to pick a side in final battle. It would be stupid if we got role of "maintaining balance".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    To think some people think Nazis are some kind of crusaders must be really bad.
    Yes, people don't learn history and Hitler is the only word they know.
    Also Yrel is the last hope of the alliance ironically
    For what? Horde is a puppet state.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Yes, extermination of Jews for a political agenda, he wasn't appeasing any religious power or doing it for his own faith, at least not above his own bigoted ideologies. If you break it down to its barest components, he was a racist that garnered too much political power by playing on people's own fears and equally racist views. Citing God's name or religious beliefs sugar coated it. It was still a political agenda.
    We're debating semantics. One could argue that Christendom was a geopolitical power, with a political agenda at the time of the first Crusades, using the guise of Christianity to achieve those political goals.
    Last edited by Daymanmb; 2019-11-20 at 10:50 AM.

  17. #117
    Since I did the Mag'har recruitment scenario I'm eagerly waiting for a light portal tear open the sky of Azeroth, swarming it with crazed, fanatic lightbound Draenei, Orcs and whatsoever, who are trying to turn us all into lightbound to to "save us".

    I'm sure it will happen soon.

    *stares into the sky*

    any minute ... now


    now

    ...


    now

    ...
    MMO-Champion Forum
    noun

    1. a place where people who stopped playing World of Warcraft 10 years ago gather to tell those who still enjoy the game, how bad it is right now.

  18. #118
    Friendly reminder that the ones who enslaved another race (Ogres) and nearly exterminated two others (Botani and Saberon) were not the Lightbound...
    Last edited by Manariel; 2019-11-20 at 02:17 PM.

  19. #119
    Warchief Nero Duskwind's Avatar
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    They've built up to this point. There better be some damn payoff, especially if it means we get to explore more of the "alternate" Draenor planetoid's continents. Still pissed that, for all the hype around Yrel's introduction and buildup, she ended up unceremoniously shelved with the conclusion of WoD. Militant fascist paladin Yrel is a tease I really hope to see unfold firsthand with the players.
    Last edited by Nero Duskwind; 2019-11-20 at 02:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
    WoW Toons: Duskwind (retired)/Duskrime (retired)
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  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    We're debating semantics. One could argue that Christendom was a geopolitical power, with a political agenda at the time of the first Crusades, using the guise of Christianity to achieve those political goals.
    That's quite a reach but at this point we might as well agree to disagree.

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