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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Sure, but he did nothing wrong there. These people were allready dead they turned to undead and nothing could prevent that.

    But by slaying them before they turn undead, Arthas denied Mal'Ganis his army THIS was made very clear in the game as well, did you miss this?

    This was further clearly shown in the murder of the King and his father, he came to Lordaeron to celebrate the victory in the north, but as a death knight, not beeing himself anymore, his mind twisted by frostmourne and the LK Ner'zhul whispers, all he did was to murder his own father and bring ruin to this own kingdom.

    he did some questionable things before he got turned by frostmourne, but he still did it for the greater good, in a "
    the end justifies the means" way. And while it looks like madness for the sensitive, its still not strictly evil.

    In a worst case scenario Arthas is a grey antihero fighting for the survival of his people.

    Not really someone who deserves the maw, but rather someone who got cursed and damned by an obscure underworld sword and dragged into the maw.
    He knew what he was getting himself into. He was driven my vengeance and nothing more. Whether you think he did nothing wrong or not doesn't matter, his actions are are condoned by everyone around him. Uther, Jaina, Muradin etc all abandon him, did you miss this? He kills his own men with hired mercenaries to prevent a retreat from Northrend, all in the quest for vengeance.

  2. #102
    Leave it to fanboys to act like a guy who made a deal with the devil and killed his best friends and family is a good guy

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Leave it to fanboys to act like a guy who made a deal with the devil and killed his best friends and family is a good guy
    How did Arthas make a deal with the devil? I don't think you've really paid attention to his story.

  4. #104
    I'm kind of expecting Arthas to play a major role as the story goes on. I could see him play the role of Illidan where he knows how to defeat the new bad guys, and at the end he gets redeemed for helping out. It would be interesting to see him interact with Jaina and Sylvanas again.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Piamonte View Post
    Culling of stratholme says hi, he was damned way before he even took the sword, also he was kind of an asshole and you have to remember that he was warned against picking up frostmourne yet he did it anyway only because he wanted power.
    Yeah, the PC also picks stuff every day even though everyone warns us not to, but I'm pretty sure we canonically wouldn't end up in the Maw if we died

  6. #106
    I can't there are people who think that Arthas is going to be anything but a major character in an expansion where the Lich King is at the forefront.

  7. #107
    Arthas' character has definitely had some ups and downs post-WC3, but I think it's abundantly clear, is *IS* the most popular character. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot to *NOT* include him. And honestly, I would take the opportunity to do something important with him (and/or Ner'zhul).

    Part of me wonders if his death is what "broke death". Perhaps he and Ner'zhul's bond was stronger than we realized, that Ner'zhul was able to feed Arthas' soul some of his necromantic powers? I'd have guessed "The Jailor" actually was Ner'zhul, if the devs hadn't been so adamant about him being a brand-new character.

    Either way, they definitely *HAVE* to do something with Arthas. Part of me worries they're going to have Sylvanas "kill" his spirit, just as another "look how cool Sylvanas is!" moment. I'd personally be more interested in seeing Arthas, after years of constant torment in the Maw, actually have grown as a character. Now completely powerless, his spirit essentially coming to terms with his actions, providing some kind of closure with some other characters.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosgoth View Post
    How did Arthas make a deal with the devil?
    I don't think you've really paid attention to his story.

    You know, the part where he took up that evil sword?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    He also picked up Frostmourne willingly despite knowing that it was dangerous.
    he literally say i'll pay any price to save my ppl when he picks the sword, he lost faith in light that it can help ppl in his impossible desperate war
    Arthas was corrupted, if anything changed in his path, he may been the greatest champion of Azeroth, but since everything f8cked him even Uther and Jaina and honestly everyone, he became the greatest villain ever
    And btw nothing says if Sylvannas vision is true or not

    But one of things that will make me 100% play shadowlands is Arthas fate, if they don't treat him like Orgrim in WoD and give him the actual proper respect he deserves, i'll buy shadowlands with zero regrets

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Old and new LK first meeting coming up!! *So Bolvar..how's it feel to be the LK? Sadly you suck compared to what i used to be..but hey. That's how it is.* new/old LK bromance?
    i REALLY hope not
    If Arthas show up again, he should get the leading role, be it a hero or villain, not be used to show how 'uber amazing' ipwngnomes the random furry warrior is
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    The only one in game who believes it was justified was Arthas himself. The game, and lore, is quite specific in letting you know that this is a pivotal turning point in his character arc which sets him on a path of irredeemable vengeance
    no, everyone believe it was the right decision, check the entire Culling of Stratholme dungeon we got in wrath
    heck i even made a thread myself (or was it someone else?) about if Culling of Stratholme was right and it was overwhelming agreed that Arthas did the right thing
    Both Uther and Jaina were a88holes for refuse to help him, they weren't there to see how the scourge rise, of course they opposed him because how low they think of him and that 'there must be a way'
    Sadly it only delayed the inevitable

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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    He knew what he was getting himself into. He was driven my vengeance and nothing more. Whether you think he did nothing wrong or not doesn't matter, his actions are are condoned by everyone around him. Uther, Jaina, Muradin etc all abandon him, did you miss this? He kills his own men with hired mercenaries to prevent a retreat from Northrend, all in the quest for vengeance.
    Since u forgot wc3, let me remind u with its events
    the scourge is literally unstoppable, unless u cut its head there is no end, Arthas had wrong info that Mal'ganis was its head
    Uther in his arrogance tried to stop the attack on the scourge, everyone except Arthas grossly underestimated the threat of the scourge (which is canon-wise considered the biggest threat azeroth faced), and was trying to force Arthas back from Northrend giving the scourge the time it needed to win
    Arthas was betrayed by everyone around him, he was shoved in corruption pass, if even 1 of those 'heroes' did help him, his fate may been different, but it isn't
    And they got what they deserve, he became the greatest villain ever until his end
    We players specially should relate to him the most, he amount of 'Greater Good' sh8t we did dwarf even Arthas work, just check the most recent remove the barrier between Azeroth and Argus to invade it event, also it was Illidan who did that, and unlike Arthas, Illidan had support (last time he didn't have support, he ended as boss of a raid)
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  10. #110
    They created a new Arthas model in BfA and now we're going to the realm of death.

    Knowing Blizzard, I have zero doubt that Arthas will be in Shadowlands somewhere. They're too fanservicey to not include him.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by The Betrayer View Post
    It would be nice to see a redeemed Arthas there as a king of the Kyrians or something. They have a cool aesthetic that reminds me of the Paladin look.

    https://media.mmo-champion.com/image..._KelvinTan.jpg

    https://media.mmo-champion.com/image...ChrisChang.jpg
    And why do you think he can be redeemed ? sure after stratholme there probably was a change but after taking up Frostmourne and the armor i pretty much doubt it.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Not before the people turned into undead, but before Mal'Ganis could command them as an undead army.

    He wasn't evil at all, maybe an arrogant bastard, though.

    He got played and corrupted.

    He probably does not really deserve the maw as he was hardly himself, when he became finally a DK and killed his own father and king. There is no way he would do this uncorrupted.
    Then Sylvanas isn't evil either. Arthas is as responsible for Sylvanas as Sargeras is for the Burning Legion.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I don't think you've really paid attention to his story.

    You know, the part where he took up that evil sword?
    That's not a deal with the devil. That's a cursed blade he took up to save his people.

    Oh it's you again. Never mind then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    And why do you think he can be redeemed ? sure after stratholme there probably was a change but after taking up Frostmourne and the armor i pretty much doubt it.
    Arthas did the right thing in Stratholme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Then Sylvanas isn't evil either. Arthas is as responsible for Sylvanas as Sargeras is for the Burning Legion.
    Nonsense. Sylvanas isn't being mind-controlled right now.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosgoth View Post
    That's not a deal with the devil. That's a cursed blade he took up to save his people.

    Oh it's you again. Never mind then.

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    Arthas did the right thing in Stratholme.
    Notice autocorrect ruined it, it was supposed to be chance, that after stratholme there was probably a chance to redemption, but not after all the stuff he did after taking up Frostmourne and the armor.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Old and new LK first meeting coming up!! *So Bolvar..how's it feel to be the LK? Sadly you suck compared to what i used to be..but hey. That's how it is.* new/old LK bromance?
    The Lich King is a spirit, a soul, an identity. It isn't a title.

    In WotLK and related works of lore we learned when Arthas put on the helmet his mind, consciousness, spirit merged into the Lich King. There was a battle for control, but there is no Arthas anymore, he is a part of the Lich King.

    So if Bolvar is also a part of the Lich King, he knows Arthas because he IS Arthas. Or, Bolvar isn't and wasn't the Lich King at all, he just wore the helm. A poser, pretender.



    If we look at what Blizzard has done lore-wise with Diablo and the concept of a prime evil, it matches a lot of the lore around the Lich King. Merging souls into a single being of power. Further, if three souls have been consumed, they represent fel, frost/light and fire/light. The origin of the helm is in the shadowlands, so the original spirit is likely death-empowered. That covers just about all the bases except void...

    Anyway, that merged soul was released, in theory, when the helm was shattered. Which in typical Blizzard-lore means it is going to inhabit a new body soon... perhaps Sylvanas. Keeps aligning with Diablo there as well. Originally the prime evil was contained in a man, then later empowered further into a woman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by runebobo View Post
    He's flying around in the Maw that Sylvanas is so afraid of yet somehow ended up making a deal with the person who runs it to get him more souls and make sure the maw takes over all of the Shadowlands... so... yeah. Doesn't really make sense from what we know so far I guess.
    This. Seems like they retconned things 2 or 3 times and have gotten stuck in a corner a bit.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    I agree, he always felt he was doing what was right for his people and kingdom, until the point that he grabbed Frostmorne.
    Until his need for revenge outweighed his want for justice. He picked up Frostmourne after he order his troops to Northrend, after his men demanded to go home after they failed in their expedition, after he hired mercenaries to burn the boats to keep them there and then killed them before they could rat him out. Even after Muradin read out and warned about the soul-stealing curse of the blade, he didn't hesitate to pick up the blade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosgoth View Post
    How did Arthas make a deal with the devil? I don't think you've really paid attention to his story.
    He picked up a sword that would literally steal his soul if he wielded it. Even Muradin said it would steal his soul if he wielded it and he still gladly and almost immediately picked it up after the warning.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Arthas is in the Maw because Sylvanas saw him there in the Edge of Night.
    This. Know your lore

  18. #118
    I feel like people forget the whole ordeal with Kel'thuzad and the Lich King during Arthas's corruption.
    Kel'thuzad tells Arthas that the Lich King foresaw that Arthas would become his champion, and Kel'thuzad helped the Lich king to achieve it. Kel'thuzad even willingly died to Arthas's blows in order to help him along.

    To say that everything Arthas did was of his own free will is right, but his free will was being directed to impossible choices by the Lich king and Kel'thuzad in order to corrupt him further, and then the whispers of Frostmourne finally broke him for good.
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd
    Arthas is in the Maw because Sylvanas saw him there in the Edge of Night.
    Unless they retcon it.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    he literally say i'll pay any price to save my ppl when he picks the sword, he lost faith in light that it can help ppl in his impossible desperate war
    Arthas was corrupted, if anything changed in his path, he may been the greatest champion of Azeroth, but since everything f8cked him even Uther and Jaina and honestly everyone, he became the greatest villain ever
    And btw nothing says if Sylvannas vision is true or not

    But one of things that will make me 100% play shadowlands is Arthas fate, if they don't treat him like Orgrim in WoD and give him the actual proper respect he deserves, i'll buy shadowlands with zero regrets

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    i REALLY hope not
    If Arthas show up again, he should get the leading role, be it a hero or villain, not be used to show how 'uber amazing' ipwngnomes the random furry warrior is

    no, everyone believe it was the right decision, check the entire Culling of Stratholme dungeon we got in wrath
    heck i even made a thread myself (or was it someone else?) about if Culling of Stratholme was right and it was overwhelming agreed that Arthas did the right thing
    Both Uther and Jaina were a88holes for refuse to help him, they weren't there to see how the scourge rise, of course they opposed him because how low they think of him and that 'there must be a way'
    Sadly it only delayed the inevitable

    - - - Updated - - -


    Since u forgot wc3, let me remind u with its events
    the scourge is literally unstoppable, unless u cut its head there is no end, Arthas had wrong info that Mal'ganis was its head
    Uther in his arrogance tried to stop the attack on the scourge, everyone except Arthas grossly underestimated the threat of the scourge (which is canon-wise considered the biggest threat azeroth faced), and was trying to force Arthas back from Northrend giving the scourge the time it needed to win
    Arthas was betrayed by everyone around him, he was shoved in corruption pass, if even 1 of those 'heroes' did help him, his fate may been different, but it isn't
    And they got what they deserve, he became the greatest villain ever until his end
    We players specially should relate to him the most, he amount of 'Greater Good' sh8t we did dwarf even Arthas work, just check the most recent remove the barrier between Azeroth and Argus to invade it event, also it was Illidan who did that, and unlike Arthas, Illidan had support (last time he didn't have support, he ended as boss of a raid)
    None of the events justifies hiring mercenary to murder his men, Arthas had his men killed just because his father ordered them to retreat, and no it is not treason when someone in higher authority, in this case his father, orders it. So there is no greater good or anything that justify having the soldiers killed just because they were being recalled home.

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