Ohio raised smoking/vaping age to 21

[Egomaniac]

Actually there is an ancient rule on the validity of a law: if it can't be enforced and/or generally isn't treated as a law that needs to be adhered to, then it should not be a law.

It is a rule often overlooked by authoritarians, but generally has been applied since Ancient Greece.

Except it is a law that can and is enforced. The law isn't against teens smoking...it's against selling smokes to teens.

[Freighter]

What will that solve? You think tobacco will just magically disappear if it's illegal?

Oh, I guess we should just make murder legal, because murders don't stop by it being illegal.

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Actually there is an ancient rule on the validity of a law: if it can't be enforced and/or generally isn't treated as a law that needs to be adhered to, then it should not be a law.

It is a rule often overlooked by authoritarians, but generally has been applied since Ancient Greece.

That's no rule. That's how you wish things to be,

[kail]

18 or 21. Pick one to determine legal adults and let adults live as they please.

[Egomaniac]

I'm increasingly annoyed with the fact that vaping is pretty much always treated equally to smoking. Do people not know that, contrary to cigs, vaping liquid doesn't HAVE to contain nicotine? I know several people that just do it for the taste, no poison involved.

If anything, actually nicotine containing liquids should be regulated. But not the gear nor the mere flavours.

I don't vape myself and recognize that some people that do can be rather obnoxious about it, but this is completely overzealous.

Nicotine is the addictive property in cigarettes and certainly not healthy...but it's not the most dangerous property in vaping/smoking.

[Egomaniac]

For smoking, granted. For vaping, I'm still waiting for conclusive scientific evidence.

Well, these kinds of studies can take years to produce conclusive results...but there is substantial data to be had that shows cause for concern with both nicotine and non-nicotine vapes. When they first came out they were marketed as the safe alternative to smoking or as a way to help people quit. Now we're seeing that it might not be as safe as we thought. Who knows what we find out in 5 or 10 years? Remember, there was a time when cigarettes were considered safe as well. My opinion is that the best play is to treat vaping legally exactly the same as smoking.

[TJ]

You call me lazy and post this... this is precisely what the eu was making fun of the USA for. And the cdc and fda came out with a press release linking all damages to ILLICIT cartridges of thc using vitamin e and another ingredient I don’t recall, that lead to the deaths. You don’t know wtf you’re talking about do you?


Literally another poster already addressed this.

“Vaping is dangerous! It kills! Albeit it only kills people in America... also only people vaping thc.. also only people buying illegal street carriages” but clearly the issue is vaping? The fuck...

I meant I was too lazy to delve any deeper, maybe you should learn to read, mate. I get it, you're a mad vaper that can't take that it's bad for himself. No need to be so hostile.

[Themius]

I meant I was too lazy to delve any deeper, maybe you should learn to read, mate. I get it, you're a mad vaper that can't take that it's bad for himself. No need to be so hostile.

I don’t vape and you’re saying it’s bad when there is no evidence of such...... You literally said you didn’t delve and when I tell you what the cdc and fda said you still fucking say the same shit.

[crewskater]

Oh, I guess we should just make murder legal, because murders don't stop by it being illegal.

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That's no rule. That's how you wish things to be,

You're comparing murder to smoking...try again. I bet you think 32oz soda should be illegal as well?

[zenkai]

Oh, I guess we should just make murder legal, because murders don't stop by it being illegal.

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That's no rule. That's how you wish things to be,

Yeah we can just punish users like we do drug users. Throw some tobacco users in jail like we do pot heads.

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Looks like the states surrounding Ohio are about to get some extra tax dollars.

[Mistame]

The age of majority is 18. Either set the age of majority to 21 and restrict all "age of majority" resources to that age or stop passing idiotic, knee-jerk laws.

“People are going to say ‘Oh but you can get somebody else to go in and buy the cigarettes for you.’ Yeah, you’ve always been able to do that. But, hopefully not being able to go in and purchase it themselves will make them delay smoking,” said McDavid.

It's interesting he says this, but ignores the fact that a 3-year increase on purchase age will have exactly 0 effect on the number of teenagers using vaping products. The entire argument they're using for passing this law is abject nonsense.

It is weird to consider humans that can vote or die in a war, but aren't fit to have a smoke to celebrate a victory.

You can be a porn star or die on the front lines, but you better not buy nicotine products!

Should just ban it.

Not everyone subscribes to half-witted authoritarianism.

Actually there is an ancient rule on the validity of a law: if it can't be enforced and/or generally isn't treated as a law that needs to be adhered to, then it should not be a law.

It is a rule often overlooked by authoritarians, but generally has been applied since Ancient Greece.

A law is only as valid as the people are willing to follow it.

That's no rule. That's how you wish things to be,

You really shouldn't talk about things you don't understand.

[Shadowferal]

I don't get your logic. You're a whole lot better off if you don't ingest nicotine into your system but it's not a whole lot worse than any other recreational substance that's legal.

The logic is predicated upon almost half a million deaths a year due to tobacco.

[Freighter]

You're comparing murder to smoking...try again.

Laws have never meant something goes away.

[Themius]

The logic is predicated upon almost half a million deaths a year due to tobacco.

Tobacco is not pure nicotine though so you can’t base nicotine research in fucking tobacco isn’t that obvious????

[Ghostpanther]

I may be a bit biased against laws that directly impact my demographic, but even the laws by themselves don't even bother me as much as the implications they have. For example, a lot of hotels just outright reject 18-20 years old because they tend to serve alcohol and don't want to be hit with steep fines if someone is caught underage drinking or gambling. This extends to soldiers, married couples and even people traveling for work. So you have cases like this:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2015/0...-not-honor-you
Fortunately, some hotels are starting to make exceptions to soldiers, but this isn't an absolute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromTh...21_to_checkin/
It's pretty disheartening that US soldiers stationed in foreign countries are often treated with more dignity than they are back home. The people who support these laws are rarely ever the people impacted by them.

EDIT: Speaking directly about smoking/vape bans, I remember learning about a guy in CA who had to resign as CEO from his own vape company which he co-founded, because he was only 20.

Oh I agree. As I stated in a post after the one you quoted me on, I think if the legal age of a adult is 18, then they should be treated as one in all areas.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I cannot say I have a problem with all vices being 21.

[Ghostpanther]

I cannot say I have a problem with all vices being 21.

There are some vices we can not discuss on here, or I would make a point about restricting all vices to 21.

[Sliske]

Vaping is going to be the new asbestos. The fact that it has no immediate negative side effects and doesn't have an 'end', means that people consume it at a rate much higher than any other drug. Think of weed. Try smoking weed every day all day for a year. You'd probably die. Try it with alcohol, cigarettes, meth, any other drug. You'd probably just straight up die.

Vaping doesn't have an end. You don't need to piss, you don't need to stop because your stomach is full. Shit is just constant AND it tastes nice too.

I guarantee it - 20, 30 years from now, there will be people trying to sue for this shit.

[Techno-Druid]

There are some vices we can not discuss on here, or I would make a point about restricting all vices to 21.

Sounds like a pretty elaborate way to get people rioting.

[Orange Joe]

I meant I was too lazy to delve any deeper, maybe you should learn to read, mate. I get it, you're a mad vaper that can't take that it's bad for himself. No need to be so hostile.

You seem to be taking a odd position of being proud of your ignorance while somehow thinking you offended someone by posting something that disagrees with your original point.

[riptor7364]

Experience is everything, and if you talk to most people over the age of 30, you'll hear the same thing.. "I was an idiot when I was 20".

What you'll often hear from people is something along the lines of "if people can go off to war and die at the age of 18, they should.." blah blah. It's not the same thing.. People who join the military at 18 are broken down, and rebuilt as confident, competent and trained soldiers GUIDED BY EXPERIENCED PEOPLE.

Deciding when you're 18 or 21 you're going out to get wasted with friends is not a moral equivalent to training to be a soldier..

There's also the argument that "ahh.. kids will be kids and do it anyway, even if it is illegal". This is true, but there's also something to be said for creating an environment where the elders in society are acknowledging that people are generally pretty stupid and irresponsible at this age, and there should be a cultural effort to get children to acknowledge that their elders have experience they do not, and that listening to them will benefit them later in life.

Liberalism I fear is the problem with all of this.. it goes too far, and "liberty", as great as it is, also means you have the freedom to eat yourself into obesity, smoke yourself into lung cancer, etc.. Freedom is great, but you have the freedom to throw your life away and be stupid as well.

Society should acknowledge that people at 18 and 21 are at the very beginning of their adult lives. You're experiencing the real world at 21. It's like giving the noobs in a game say in how the next patch is developed.. doesn't make any sense.

18 and 21 is technically "adult" age, but being realistic it's a brand new adult with zero "real world" experience.

26 I would say is the perfect age for an adult. You're in your physical prime.. you've had at least 5 years experience in the real world as an adult. You've likely worked at least 1 or 2 jobs by this point. You've had 5 years to fail and grow and see yourself differently than when you were fresh out of school.

26 is the perfect age imo. 26 should also be the voting age.. why we have what are basically still "children" with little to no work experience or experience in paying taxes, deciding the fate of society through politics is a mystery to me. Democrats pandering to useful idiots I think is the only reason we continue to push the voting age down..