Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Darththeo]

Rey, actually doing ok in the second movie, much better then first one where she literally just goes throught the movie with no challenge what so ever, not even a mental challenge.

I agree with most of what you stated, but this is not entirely true. But, even for the sake of argument, what "challenge" did Luke really go through in the OT, in the first movie. Honestly, of the "main" protagonists in each trilogy, only Anakin really faced challenges in all his movies.

Luke manages to outfly trained military pilots, even when he does a stupid maneuver that should have got him killed. He lost his Uncle and Aunt, but in the next scene goes "there is nothing for here for me now" like the deaths of the people who were basically his parents meant NOTHING. He cried more for Kenobi than them. Luke doesn't really face a challenge, he manages to blunder his way through the movie.

The complaints on Rey can apply to Luke if you simplify everything to make the argument. It's Star Wars, the heroes typically have plot armor. I don't get why Rey having it is suddenly a problem.

[Darththeo]

Need I remind everyone about how Fing wrong all these people were about their "fan" ( use that term very loosely) theories previous TLJ.

I stopped paying attention when people started saying Rey was Obi-Wan daughter. Half these people's YouTube rely on outrage media. You get some of the most self aggrandizing videos and commentary merely meant to push a narrative and nothing about the actual story or lore.

My favorite was Rey is Han and Leia's daughter people that hang on to it despite it basically being completely destroyed by the novel Bloodlines that takes place about 6 years before TLJ.

Most of the Theories are from Movie fans, which are fine, but understand if you are going to make a theory, understand that Star Wars is more than just the movies and if a source since Disney purchased has been released ... it is all one canon timeline. While I personally would love Rey to be Luke's daughter he didn't know about (just so maybe, he had some happiness in his life), I am personally 100% okay with Rey not being a Skywalker.

[Ihavewaffles]

With the Mandalorian my bro lost interest in seeing this movie, hopefully my sis no longer cares too, n mom too.

I bet many are skipping movie, it'll be subpar to mandalorian except for explosions n cgi..

[Horrid Crow]

With the Mandalorian my bro lost interest in seeing this movie, hopefully my sis no longer cares too, n mom too.

I bet many are skipping movie, it'll be subpar to mandalorian except for explosions n cgi..

You're claiming that something which has not been released yet is worse than something else which hasn't finished airing.

Not even skipping the end of a story that has been 42 years in the making (and you're obviously invested in since you are posting here) sounds more retarded than that. And we all know everyone is going to see it anyway, one way or the other.

Keep on brain farting.

[Jotaux]

You're claiming that something which has not been released yet is worse than something else which hasn't finished airing.

Not even skipping the end of a story that has been 42 years in the making (and you're obviously invested in since you are posting here) sounds more retarded than that. And we all know everyone is going to see it anyway, one way or the other.

Keep on brain farting.

TLJ has made any ending to the franchise moot. No ending could be satisfactory at this point and JJ Abrams is not exactly the best at having a good ending.

[fakaroonie]

How can people determine whether or not the ending will be satisfactory or not? The movie's not out yet. No one knows how it's going to be like, and you're already bashing.

I didn't like 7 and 8 either, especially the new characters introduced. But for me, that doesn't mean that the ending of the story itself will be impacted by that.

Maybe 9 will be a masterpiece, who knows? The first 2 episodes of both trilogies so far have been meh, with the 3rd being the best (for me atleast).

That said, I have high hopes. Still hope Kylo and Rei will not be the focus towards the end.

[Endus]

TLJ has made any ending to the franchise moot. No ending could be satisfactory at this point and JJ Abrams is not exactly the best at having a good ending.

Like I've said elsewhere; nobody hates Star Wars quite as much as Star Wars "fans". The movie isn't even out yet and you've already decided you'll hate it.

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I didn't like 7 and 8 either, especially the new characters introduced. But for me, that doesn't mean that the ending of the story itself will be impacted by that.

More and more, I'm convincing myself my real issue with Eps 7/8 boils down to a single character.

Poe Dameron.

He should've died in the crash in the desert. Everyone would be better off if he had. The films would be better off. No casino arc in Ep 8. No stupid mutiny in Ep 8, that got the Rebellion slaughtered. It would've refocused things a bit more on Finn, who's the more-interesting character. I really think the worst parts of Ep 8 were all written in the attempt to justify Poe's planned character arc, and just leaving all that out would've improved things tremendously.

And look at the talk about Ep 9. Who's talking about what the fuck is gonna happen with Poe? Nobody cares. Finn, sure, a bit. Rey and Kylo, obviously. Poe? Crickets. He serves no purpose.

[Horrid Crow]

TLJ has made any ending to the franchise moot. No ending could be satisfactory at this point and JJ Abrams is not exactly the best at having a good ending.

Bullshit. TLJ is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. It's certainly a divisive movie that has split the fanbase, but it doesn't automatically make everything that comes after it moot. Far from it. I'm actually looking forward to see the ending JUST because I was dissapointed by TLJ. I want them to clear up the chaos that Rian Johnson has left behind in the story and the characters.

Also, let's not forget ROTS, which is a really satisfying end to the prequels, even after the train wreck that is AOTC and the kinda disappointing TPM.

[Gallahadd]

And look at the talk about Ep 9. Who's talking about what the fuck is gonna happen with Poe? Nobody cares. Finn, sure, a bit. Rey and Kylo, obviously. Poe? Crickets. He serves no purpose.

Honestly? As much I lke Poe, or rather, as much as I like Oscar Isaac, I think you've got a solid point there. After TFA, people thought they were going to have Poe and Finn hook up, but that was never going to happen, so it does make Poe a little surplus to requirements.

[Nefarious Tea]

It's been two years and I can still get people seething with rage just by saying that I thought TLJ was a good movie.

It wasn’t, but not for the reasons most people bitch about.

[tumppu]

And look at the talk about Ep 9. Who's talking about what the fuck is gonna happen with Poe? Nobody cares. Finn, sure, a bit. Rey and Kylo, obviously. Poe? Crickets. He serves no purpose.

Poe is the new trilogys Wedge. Not a very good idea to have a one-dimensional fighter jock get any meaningful screen time. Sure he's competent in a space battle, just like Wedge, but other than that, they should have let the rest of the peeps do their thing.

I literally have no expectations for the last film. I'm going to see it, but I predict the end feeling will be a pretty much what it was after GoT s8 ended. "Well, glad that shit is over with". If they can subvert THAT expectation, then I'll be content.

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Maybe 9 will be a masterpiece, who knows? The first 2 episodes of both trilogies so far have been meh, with the 3rd being the best (for me atleast).

Haven't seen tESB called "meh" before, or RotJ the best of the three.

But I could bet you a good sum that ep9 will NOT be a "masterpiece" by any metric.

[Endus]

Honestly? As much I lke Poe, or rather, as much as I like Oscar Isaac, I think you've got a solid point there. After TFA, people thought they were going to have Poe and Finn hook up, but that was never going to happen, so it does make Poe a little surplus to requirements.

Yeah, to be clear, I'm not crapping on Isaac. He's doing the best he can.

Poe's just a badly-written character.

He's Han, without the dashing rogue aspect that was what made Han interesting.
He's Luke, without the Force or backwater innocence that made him interesting.
He's the new leader of the Resistance, but only because he got everyone better-suited killed.

They're trying to make Wedge Antilles into a headliner.

Without giving him the novelizations and development that they provided, that made Wedge into one, eventually.

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Poe is the new trilogys Wedge. Not a very good idea to have a one-dimensional fighter jock get any meaningful screen time. Sure he's competent in a space battle, just like Wedge, but other than that, they should have let the rest of the peeps do their thing.

I spent too much time writing my post, and you posted the same damned thing I was gonna say. Damnit.

[Gallahadd]

He's the new leader of the Resistance, but only because he got everyone better-suited killed.

Not going to lie, that made me laugh pretty hard. Very well put, and worryingly accurate.

[Jotaux]

Like I've said elsewhere; nobody hates Star Wars quite as much as Star Wars "fans". The movie isn't even out yet and you've already decided you'll hate it.

I'm calling BS on that. Other than TLJ which star wars movie have I crapped on? I think the worst thing I've said about any of the other movies was I thought Anakin and Padme were badly acted in RotS but that may be a dialogue issue.

It's just some bizzare narrative to justify the worst movie ever made, TLJ.

[Endus]

I'm calling BS on that. Other than TLJ which star wars movie have I crapped on? I think the worst thing I've said about any of the other movies was I thought Anakin and Padme were badly acted in RotS but that may be a dialogue issue.

In the post I was responding to, you were pro-actively crapping on Rise of Skywalker, even though the movie hasn't even been released yet.

And I was using you as an example of a trend. You're hardly alone in this.

[Gorsameth]

In the post I was responding to, you were pro-actively crapping on Rise of Skywalker, even though the movie hasn't even been released yet.

And I was using you as an example of a trend. You're hardly alone in this.

Hasn't the script been leaked and basically confirmed?
Seems fair to pro-actively judge a movie based on that.

[Skulltaker]

More and more, I'm convincing myself my real issue with Eps 7/8 boils down to a single character.

Poe Dameron.

Nope. It isn't as easy.

While I agree that the character isn't as fleshed out as he needs to be for the kind of important role that he has, that isn't the characters fault, it's a lack of effort on behalf of the writers. And there are loads more wrong with 7 and particularily 8 than Poe. Rose Tico and VA Holdo, and Finn in 8, are the same level of bad as Poe is.

The blame for that lies mostly with the writer, and partially with the producers who hired said writer.

After seeing Looper and rewatching Breaking Bad, I have to say, Rian Johnson is an excellent Director. Star Wars, as in classical Star Wars, just isn't for him. Upbeat simple characters and a shallow but emotional story with simple morals just isn't his kind of work, neither is the classic well-defined struggle inbetween good and evil. He likes controversial stories, which again, is not a problem in itself, Episode 8 was just not the right place for him to express himself.

I think when Disney made the descision back then to continue where Jedi left off, they assumed writing a new Star Wars story that would attract a lot of fans, old and new, would be a piece of cake. They didn't go for the hard reboot, but instead did a soft one, and hired a director who had a rather big success with a similar project 5 years earlier. I am talking of course about Abrams and Star Trek (2009). While there was a lot of gripe from parts of the Fanbase back then aswell, the movie was still pretty succesful. It pulled in a new audience and renewed interest in a dead franchise.

So what could go wrong? Nothing. And it didn't. Force Awakens turned out to be a massive success, and I still enjoy the movie a lot. But one has to wonder as to how they came to the descision to let the complete opposite of JJ Abrams to head the follow-up movie, and even more so, write it. Disney was in the middle of its 10 year MCU plan when Force Awakens released, so they could see the fruits of a consistent guideline for a string of movies in their own bottom lines. What on earth prompted them to hand the reigns of the story over to someone whose work is so completely different from what Star Wars usually means, is anybody's guess. And why Johnson accepted aswell.

He was now in the awkward position to write and direct a movie where the start and the characters were already finished when he started. While Rey, Finn and Poe where by far not finished characters, just like Luke, Hand and Leia weren't at the end of New Hope, their outlines were drawn, and he had to pick up where others left. But he imposed his own style onto them, which is why most of the characters (basically anyone except for Rey and Kylo Ren) feel completely different from what they were in Force Awakens. I assume that Kylo Ren and Reys story has been laid down way at the beginning when they started writing 7, so Johnson didn't have that much leeway with it, which is why these characters feel the most consistent by far, and their part in the movie is the most enjoyable (or actually the good part of the movie.)

But the rest is just white noise. Not only is Poes storyline completely useless, the same goes for Finn and Rose, and Holdo, but since their story had to be continued, Rian had to make stuff up for them to do, and he used this time for commenting on the tropes of Star Wars and riddiculing them. So we end up with a Space Battle that makes even less sense then all the others in Star Wars, a chase scene that makes no sense, an escape plan that makes no sense, another escape plan that makes no sense, some stupid casino scene, dumb horses and a characters inablility to focus on what is important, a pointless betrayal, and so on. It's busywork, and nothing else. If Rian got to actually write the movie from start to finish, with no end and beginning shoved upon him, I'm rather sure Holdo, Rose, Finn and Poe would not have made any appearance whatsoever. It would just have been Rey, Kylo Ren, Luke, Snoke, and exploring the meaning, triumphs and failiures of Luke, the Jedi, the Dark side and the Light.

I wouldn't have had an issue with Johnson exploring and mocking the tropes of Star Wars. Not at all. Taking a franchise in a new direction, or rather experimenting with it, cool idea. Just when I thought I was done with Marvel for a time they announce a Dr. Strange Horror movie. How cool is that??
I just have a problem with him doing that in the continued story. It's like having the Superbowl animated by the guys from South Park instead of actually having the teams play. Could it be interesting? Sure. Will it be succesful? I am sure it would. Would it piss of a lot of people? Yeah, it would.

I think Johnson would have been much better suited writing and directing a standalone film, or a few episodes for the Mandalorian. I think his style would have worked great in either case. But by having him doing an awkward split inbetween what defines his style and what defines Star Wars, we ended up with a complete trainwreck of a movie with one interesting A story and 4 incredibly stupid B stories, that all have to tie in together in the end.

[Sorshen]

When you're watching Rise of Skywalker, remember that Disney fucked over George Lucas (as evidenced Bob Iger's biography) by 'forgetting' about the handshake agreement and throwing his script/notes for ep. 7-9 in the dumpster - giving way to hack writers like Rian Johnson, writers that didn't even plan out the trilogy.

[eschatological]

When you're watching Rise of Skywalker, remember that Disney fucked over George Lucas (as evidenced Bob Iger's biography) by 'forgetting' about the handshake agreement and throwing his script/notes for ep. 7-9 in the dumpster - giving way to hack writers like Rian Johnson, writers that didn't even plan the overarching plot for the trilogy.

George wrote the shit prequels. He also wrote fucking awful OT scripts which had to be redone at every level, at his own wife's insistence - the point that they brought in a second screenwriter for ESB and only gave George "Story by" credits. Give me Rian Johnson's writing any day of the week.

[Sorshen]

George wrote the shit prequels. He also wrote fucking awful OT scripts which had to be redone at every level, at his own wife's insistence - the point that they brought in a second screenwriter for ESB and only gave George "Story by" credits. Give me Rian Johnson's writing any day of the week.

Like it or not, he created this. His dialogue writing is atrocious indeed (ep. 1-3), but ep. 8 is straight trolling from a hack that only wanted subversion.