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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    PvP requires the most skill, which is why it should give the best gear.
    Which also means gear should be balanced to put everyone on the same level. It should award cosmetic gear (hey look at that, it already does and it's a timed-exclusive among PLENTY of other things) and everyone's iLvl and stats should be equalized. Since again, it's about skill, not gear, right?

    If you can just wreck someone because you have all TF and socketed gear and they didn't get any, even if they're a better player, well that's clearly unfair bullshit. Raiding and M+ inflates this further over PvP players who don't have the time to do all that.

    Templates should absolutely come back and be increased each season (to keep up with PvE and mix it up a bit) so skill can overcome gear. This would also break the complaint held by many PvPers that they need to PvE to do PvP. Win-win for everyone.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
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  2. #22
    Think you got this backwards, PVP should be tossed in a fire and never be taken seriously again. One of the reasons Blizzard cant make crazy and fun abilities is because of "muh balance" in pvp, its restricting their design and creativity to make classes more fun because PVP balance is always the limiter.

  3. #23
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    The hardest part about mythic raiding is finding 20 dedicated people on your server to raid with at the same time. The rest of it is just following a script. Why then, should mythic raiding reward the best gear?
    Aaaaaand found the guy who never pushed Mythic raids.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by qwikz View Post
    Think you got this backwards, PVP should be tossed in a fire and never be taken seriously again. One of the reasons Blizzard cant make crazy and fun abilities is because of "muh balance" in pvp, its restricting their design and creativity to make classes more fun because PVP balance is always the limiter.
    Funny. I made a thread a few weeks ago suggesting that void elves/undead/shadow priest get unique benefits with the whole corruption/insanity thing coming in 8.3 and everyone said no... because of PvE. Try again.
    change can't wait.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    Im not just praising PvP, but Mythic+ as well. And do you really think PvErs can’t be toxic?

    And also my 20 people comment wasn’t a joke. On dead servers, especially if they’re Alliance they have to resort to quitting, not raiding, or server transferring because there isn’t a way to find 20 decent people, get them on a schedule, and stick them together. For many people that actually is the hardest part of raiding.

    New players don’t flock to PvP because they’ve completely ignored PvP this expansion. There are no vendors, class balance is abysmal, I don’t even think there’s a single PvP dev. As much as I do like Mythic+ it’s dumb that one has to do it just to be geared for someone like random BGs, let alone arena.
    Your title however clearly states that you want PvP to be the ultimate thing for gear, not M+.

    Of course PvEers can be toxic too, but the amount and tone is a very different one. People I know have been told to commit suicide after their first BG, haven't seen that level of bullshit in PvE yet.

    And yeah, of course it is hard to find 20 people for raiding ON A DEAD SERVER... it is probably also hard to get into an Epic BG on a DEAD SERVER. That is kinda the problem with DEAD SERVERS not with PvE content.
    On mine, the Groupfinder has dozens of groups running Heroic EP every evening. Mythic raiding is usually a guild thing so can't be judged by Groupfinder activity.

    Completely ignored? Have you actually played the game this expansion?

    We got a completely new map
    A completely new mode for World PvP, with a new talent system
    Several Essences that require PvPing and are best in slot for some classes
    The Anniversary event

    And yes, Balance isn't great, but it is not great for any game mode at the moment.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    In addition, they need to stop balancing primarily around mythic raiding.

    The hardest part about mythic raiding is finding 20 dedicated people on your server to raid with at the same time. The rest of it is just following a script. Why then, should mythic raiding reward the best gear?

    Mythic+ and PvP can be far more challenging and rewarding. There are keys that are much harder than bosses in Mythic EP. And pushing your rating in BfA, especially if you’re a non meta class is more than watching vids on YouTube to get mechanics right. Why then, should mythic raiding reward the best gear and be the focus of all the balance changes?

    They need to forget about raiding or at least put it on the back burner. Focus on mythic+ and PvP instead, the game will be in much better shape if they do.
    No.

    WoW is primarily a PVE game with some PVP elements haphazardly slapped into it in a poor attempt to make WoW into an Esports.

    There is a reason tournament realms are completely separate from the normal game. The moment you start trying to make WoW primarily a PVP game, with rules and loot centered around it, is the moment WoW loses 99% of its players.

    If you want more PVP, then go play on a tournament realm. Or go play GW2. Or better yet, go play EVE online.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    Funny. I made a thread a few weeks ago suggesting that void elves/undead/shadow priest get unique benefits with the whole corruption/insanity thing coming in 8.3 and everyone said no... because of PvE. Try again.
    It's almost as if "everyone" isn't a hivemind. Also your bait is terrible and you should feel bad. Try again.
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    Funny. I made a thread a few weeks ago suggesting that void elves/undead/shadow priest get unique benefits with the whole corruption/insanity thing coming in 8.3 and everyone said no... because of PvE. Try again.
    Try again what? There will always be a minority who measures their idea of fun based on how high their numbers are, nobody cares about those people. Imagine if PVP wasnt a factor, Blizzard could just design all classes so they have unique and iconic abilities/mechanics that would overall make them so much more enjoyable to play, instead they have to limit themselves because of PVP balance so they create streamlined bullshit where all classes basically play the same.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    The rest of it is just following a script
    I love when non-mythic raiders say this

    Try harder

  10. #30
    PvP has been, and will always be, a side activity. Just something to do, like pet battles.
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
    this thread is a waste of internet

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanegasi View Post
    PvP has been, and will always be, a side activity. Just something to do, like pet battles.
    Oh no you diden't!
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  12. #32
    If mythic raiding is so easy where all you have to do is follow a script and find 20 people willing to do it, why don't you read the script, find the people, down the bosses cause its gonna be so easy for you and then go tear it up in PVP with all your best gear.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    PvP requires the most skill, which is why it should give the best gear.
    Not if gear is involved.

    Again, how many of these threads do you think are necessary?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ecospherez View Post
    If mythic raiding is so easy where all you have to do is follow a script and find 20 people willing to do it, why don't you read the script, find the people, down the bosses cause its gonna be so easy for you and then go tear it up in PVP with all your best gear.
    Beacuse:

    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    oh boy,its crazy how completly different people can think about this,personaly i think the legion pvp template was pure dogpoop,the tbc/wrath/cata style was the best,gear progression is fun and rewarding,the skilled players will get all the best gear anyways fast(if vendors exist not random pvp rewards)
    They should take actual gear out of the equation and just give transmog, mounts, etc... PVP is supposedly about skill, isn't it?

  16. #36
    They will never balance rewards according to difficulty and should just give up and make gear from highest tiers of content have bonuses only for that content. Mythic raid gear has bonuses inside that raid, gear from +15 and up dungeons has bonuses for mythic dungeons, Elite PvP gear has bonuses for instanced PvP. The problem is that majority of the playerbase are way below that level and will start whining that Blizzard are gatekeeping talents.

  17. #37
    Brewmaster Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelcryo View Post
    PvP and PvE should have two totally separate gear sets imo.
    And here is our winner. In more detail (about "why" and "how it works") it can be read somewhere, for example, here (since we have already discussed this a myriad of times):
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    2. Characteristics (&shame to PvP talent system + time-gate/catch-up/Azerite-remark) +(+/+/+/+)+/+/+(+/+)+
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-11-22 at 01:43 PM.
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  18. #38
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    PvP requires the most skill, which is why it should give the best gear.
    If you're doing it competitively, raiding IS a form of PvP. Arguing over which requires more skill is therefore asinine.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    They should take actual gear out of the equation and just give transmog, mounts, etc... PVP is supposedly about skill, isn't it?
    and it is...like i said,good players get the gear anyways,heck its not even good ones,just decent ones,i was a total casual in wrath pvp and i still got 2.4 in 3's

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    In addition, they need to stop balancing primarily around mythic raiding.

    The hardest part about mythic raiding is finding 20 dedicated people on your server to raid with at the same time. The rest of it is just following a script. Why then, should mythic raiding reward the best gear?

    Mythic+ and PvP can be far more challenging and rewarding. There are keys that are much harder than bosses in Mythic EP. And pushing your rating in BfA, especially if you’re a non meta class is more than watching vids on YouTube to get mechanics right. Why then, should mythic raiding reward the best gear and be the focus of all the balance changes?

    They need to forget about raiding or at least put it on the back burner. Focus on mythic+ and PvP instead, the game will be in much better shape if they do.
    Gear shouldn't be a thing in competitive PVP, therefore nah.

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