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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorthonion1 View Post
    Just theoretical as I probably won't play Shadowlands.

    I am levelling a frost mage and I enjoy the feeling I am 'frost'. Personally I don't like the idea of getting fireball since I like this feeling of specialisation. I DO think classes can be a tad more complex, just because a) they are too simple (though not that simple as people seem to think) and b) it gets boring having the same spells all the time, I miss getting new spells in expansions. That said, I like the idea of shattering throw for warriors (I used to play/play a warrior a lot), it doesn't 'feel' like it should be a spec specific ability and it's cool and adds depth, complexity and possible counterplay (PvP perspective).

    I don't like the whole covenant system as usual there has to be some grindy new feature to boost playtime, it's artifical complexity just like azerite traits.

    I think each spec getting maybe 2 or 3 new talents, as well as maybe ONE or TWO spells made classwide will be fun, but I don't want spec homogenization, I like spec identity.
    If they can give me
    1)single minded fury
    2) sword and board
    I'll be moderately relieved.

  2. #482
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    Its just an excuse to put less development time into specs by having more shared components. Don't expect much from Shadowlands with Activison still forcing cutbacks

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by americandavey View Post
    If they really listen to players, we would have seen talent trees back with meaningful choices and no stupid filler talents.
    Oxy moron

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    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by EbonBehelit- View Post
    PW:S is a Discipline spell. Shadowpriests have always been able to use it in Shadowform.

    What makes Shadowpriests (and Priests in general) interesting is the ability to harness the duality of light and shadow. Take away the ability to use the light, and Shadow turns into a discount Affliction Warlock -- which is what it is right now.
    PW:S *is* a Discipline spell. Shadow isn't Discipline.

    And no, Discipline is interesting because it uses Light and Shadow. What makes Shadow cool is that they're psychic vampires. Affliction has their whole soul shtick, which is what makes them cool. Without light, Shadow priests still have a distinct light purple from the dark purple that Affliction uses. But, PW:S is a really old-looking ability. It is no wonder it clashes with Shadow.

  5. #485
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    PW:S *is* a Discipline spell. Shadow isn't Discipline.
    it's funny that you compare direction of character's class development (that area of abilities, which character works better with, specializes in it) with magic school...

    There is no such thing as discipline ability, it's holy one. Derivatives, that priests in this direction use, are the same as those of rest of their colleagues, basic! ones, another thing is that talented! their features in this branch were different, that is, it was the same shield... but better, since it was this path that was chosen as direction of “improvement” (= specialization) - that’s what for there were always talents in game (while they were), but then they were remade to “perks”, and then another part of them was taken away so that there was something to shove into “PvP perks” (which, conditionally, reduced entire arsenal of abilities to 1/6 of original). This is just nonsense of a sick mind, not kind of design.

    ...and people began to think in categories such as "what abilities are more suitable for X-part of class".

    It was kind of tolerant in this part during time of best iteration of new design (MoP+): "perks" mostly were cross specializing, like if were given to whole class, and without any folly in form of PvP (PvP characteristics and equipment performed this role, which is much healthier) ones (problems then were only with part of classes' basic mechanics being cut out in previous expansions, and kind of be foreshadowed chaos in work of characteristics in view of their significant inflation/growth).

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  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by tangers58 View Post
    Its just an excuse to put less development time into specs by having more shared components.
    Yes, that is my take as well. The game evolved into essentially 36 separate classes and it's too much work.

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorthonion1 View Post
    Just theoretical as I probably won't play Shadowlands.

    I am levelling a frost mage and I enjoy the feeling I am 'frost'. Personally I don't like the idea of getting fireball since I like this feeling of specialisation. I DO think classes can be a tad more complex, just because a) they are too simple (though not that simple as people seem to think) and b) it gets boring having the same spells all the time, I miss getting new spells in expansions. That said, I like the idea of shattering throw for warriors (I used to play/play a warrior a lot), it doesn't 'feel' like it should be a spec specific ability and it's cool and adds depth, complexity and possible counterplay (PvP perspective).

    I don't like the whole covenant system as usual there has to be some grindy new feature to boost playtime, it's artifical complexity just like azerite traits.

    I think each spec getting maybe 2 or 3 new talents, as well as maybe ONE or TWO spells made classwide will be fun, but I don't want spec homogenization, I like spec identity.
    It probably won't affect you. Just keep doing what you're doing and ignore that fireball in your spellbook. Not like Frost mages use Fireball in their rotations in classic.
    Be happy for those who want the options to multi-school.

  8. #488
    It all depends on what "fixing" the classes means and how they do it. Because if the classes play smooth are fun and viable in more than 1 aspect of the end of game, a nicely tuned class makes the game fun regardless of the content.

  9. #489
    I'm ok with the return to Class. I think Discipline priest will disappear though.
    Saying that i just hope they get rid off the sun looking ability on the druid and they bring back the old green wrath and the swarm plus more nature looking ability.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    You say that while having an 'I Miss Pandaria' sig image.
    You do realize that MoP still had the class > spec identity format?
    Play a Pandaria warlock.

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    PW:S *is* a Discipline spell. Shadow isn't Discipline
    There is no such thing as a "discipline" school of magic. As a matter of fact, if you get locked out of holy spells (e.g. interrupted while casting Penance), you can't cast PW:S. Which by the way does look old, it could really use a bit flashier update.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by americandavey View Post
    Its a con, plain and simple. So they can say, "Look we listen to the players, yada, yada, yada, etc." If they really listen to players, we would have seen talent trees back with meaningful choices and no stupid filler talents. So the player can be really rewarded when hitting that next level. Nope, they just want to give classes a few spells back.
    i love that they do something that people have been calling for, and the playerbase just moves the goalposts and calls them shit for it. good work.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    I'm dying to class identity as well. (Mostly cause of my mage, some other classes are ok even). I feel like wow needs to give more options that are not that specific on a spec. But after Legion, i guess that would implicate many stuff, such as artifacts and mounts, i don't know how you'll do stuff like that, i hope they remind themselves to not make stuff like that bugged, even on transmogs and such. We will see how it will all play out in the end. I'm hoping for more than what it was presented on the powerpoint blizzcon.
    This is where the dilemma comes in. You want more options, but, in actuality, you are actively advocating for less options by saying you want essentially 3 classes to become 1. Spec identity allows for more options because devs don't have to balance abilities around unrelated abilities not intended for that spec.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by americandavey View Post
    Its a con, plain and simple. So they can say, "Look we listen to the players, yada, yada, yada, etc." If they really listen to players, we would have seen talent trees back with meaningful choices and no stupid filler talents. So the player can be really rewarded when hitting that next level. Nope, they just want to give classes a few spells back.
    They're literally reworking the entire levelling process to achieve just that.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp1on2 View Post
    This is where the dilemma comes in. You want more options, but, in actuality, you are actively advocating for less options by saying you want essentially 3 classes to become 1. Spec identity allows for more options because devs don't have to balance abilities around unrelated abilities not intended for that spec.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They're literally reworking the entire levelling process to achieve just that.
    As if, all that will prob happen is that they take all the stuff you "learn" atm over the course of leveling and space it out in a different way, not what i would call rework.

    A Leveling Rework would include a Class/Specc rework because who really cares when you get what ability if classes still play like shit?
    It wont hide the fact that Talents Trees are Boring and most Classes are just shallow.

    If they really care i would like to see them give out a Survey to every Player of WoW that is somewhat active or even those who are inactive and gather Data what people enjoy, what they dont enjoy and find a middle ground with that. All they do since WoD is poke around in the Dark with minimal effort to keep Players somewhat happy.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Seuchentiffy View Post
    As if, all that will prob happen is that they take all the stuff you "learn" atm over the course of leveling and space it out in a different way, not what i would call rework.

    A Leveling Rework would include a Class/Specc rework because who really cares when you get what ability if classes still play like shit?
    It wont hide the fact that Talents Trees are Boring and most Classes are just shallow.

    If they really care i would like to see them give out a Survey to every Player of WoW that is somewhat active or even those who are inactive and gather Data what people enjoy, what they dont enjoy and find a middle ground with that. All they do since WoD is poke around in the Dark with minimal effort to keep Players somewhat happy.
    I have absolutely no idea what you're getting at to be honest.

    People's primary complaints with regards to levelling that it was:
    1) too long, the game is overwhelmingly focused on 'max level' activities
    2) it teaches you nothing meaningful about your class because everything changes at max level
    3) you went several levels without any new spell or ability
    4) incoherent story

    The SL level rework (if executed as they said at Blizzcon) addresses all these issues:
    1) They are vastly reducing the overall time from level 1 to max level and from 50-60 you will be able to make meaningful progress on max-level content (on alts)
    2) because you will reach max level quicker it will only need to teach you the absolute basics of your class anyway
    3) massive reduction in number of levels will mean that every level will reward you with a new ability and/or talent
    4) you'll be able to level 1-50 in a single expansion so you will get a coherent story.

    Have you even looked at what they've said they're going to do? It most definitely is a rework.

  16. #496
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    I'm not exactly excited....if they come back they come back. I'm more interested what else they will do and what will happen with talents.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp1on2 View Post
    I have absolutely no idea what you're getting at to be honest.

    People's primary complaints with regards to levelling that it was:
    1) too long, the game is overwhelmingly focused on 'max level' activities
    2) it teaches you nothing meaningful about your class because everything changes at max level
    3) you went several levels without any new spell or ability
    4) incoherent story

    The SL level rework (if executed as they said at Blizzcon) addresses all these issues:
    1) They are vastly reducing the overall time from level 1 to max level and from 50-60 you will be able to make meaningful progress on max-level content (on alts)
    2) because you will reach max level quicker it will only need to teach you the absolute basics of your class anyway
    3) massive reduction in number of levels will mean that every level will reward you with a new ability and/or talent
    4) you'll be able to level 1-50 in a single expansion so you will get a coherent story.

    Have you even looked at what they've said they're going to do? It most definitely is a rework.
    Blizzard needed a coherent story to remove tree talents for example? Nope. Don't go pickup stuff that makes no sense , just because you don't want it changed.

    I didn't wanted it changed to be so specific how it is now, and yet here we are.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Blizzard needed a coherent story to remove tree talents for example? Nope. Don't go pickup stuff that makes no sense , just because you don't want it changed.

    I didn't wanted it changed to be so specific how it is now, and yet here we are.
    What are you talking about? They aren't removing the talents. They're just changing the levelling system lol.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp1on2 View Post
    What are you talking about? They aren't removing the talents. They're just changing the levelling system lol.
    This is where the dilemma comes in. You want more options, but, in actuality, you are actively advocating for less options by saying you want essentially 3 classes to become 1. Spec identity allows for more options because devs don't have to balance abilities around unrelated abilities not intended for that spec.
    made the wrong quote. And was reading the rest to the other guy. You keep saying "what are you talking about" and that "you think you do but you don't" about the specs to be 1 class. I do, i want a class to be a class, not specs separated in 3 classes. I don't care if others leveled up more of the same class to make another spec. Tbh that's not my problem.

    Talents since you touch on the subject, many of them could turn into passives.

    And about the leveling too many people asked to win something every level, they just did it. And it's way better. I will enjoy it.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    I seem to be in the minority but I like the way classes are now. When I look back at some of my classes like my mage who I always had spec'd as fire and still having frost and arcane abilities that I never used I just think of how much of a waste it was. I hardly ever used them only in certain situations when I was in a panic and needed to use something.

    I too like spec identity and I too am not all that hyped for this class change as it could ruin the fun I am having with the classes now. If they stay relatively the same but support more class wide abilities I'd be totally fine with that but I think they had the right idea to make classes like fire mages FIRE and frost mages FROST and arcane mages ARCANE and so on. It makes it easier to focus on using the spells of your spec that actually matter and not getting confused or having your screen cluttered up with 100 different spells and abilities.

    So I hope they're continuing with that idea but just building on it to make them more enjoyable to the people who didn't like them and try to find a middle ground.
    Opposite for me, old school way if you wanted to be Fire then just be all Fire. Don't have to put useless abilities on your bars. But also if you wanted to be Fire/Frost you can do that or Fire/Arcane. So many choices, it was awesome. Now it's just too bland

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