Helm of Damnation

[TheRevenantHero]

Your source[4] refers to a quote i provided you with, you should check sources better, because while wiki states that both the armour and the blade crafted by nathrezim, source they refer to states that only runeblade was forged by them. Yeah, wikis are crazy like that. You should read it closer yourself.
Source [5] also says that only runeblade was crafted by burning legion. Armour never mentioned.

Please source the "before he was locked in ice" part, because THAT's definitely your headcanon and never happened, frostmourne was detached AFTER creation of the lich king and there was no "yeeting" to be done by Ner'zhul after he got caught by Kil'Jaeden.

So yeah, my point still stands, you even brought up the same source i was bringing up, that states that the lich king made frostmourne that soul-stealing blade we know it to be, before ner'zhul using his lich king powers on the frostmourne it couldn't do that. Your wiki page even confirms that frostmourne was.

The only retcon considering frostmourne that was done was in the rise of the lich king, when Tichondrius said that frostmourne was crafted by nathrezim, but in WC3 he said that it was crafted by lich king. Which is a questionable retcon, because in the very same dialogue he says that the lich king made frostmourne to be able to steal souls, so, yeah, it's still the lich king who "made" frostmourne to be the frostmourne we all know these days.

Frostmourne was just that - a soulstealing weapon, after it got destroyed, most souls got to escape it. There is nothing more to it, you bought into the hype, like people who think that blades of azzinoth are some sort of world-breaking-power-level weapons.

"Ner'zhul was not content with being a pawn for the Burning Legion, however, and began working on a plan for escape. The first stage of his plan was set in motion when he used his powers to push Frostmourne through the ice and out of the Frozen Throne. It was sent to a cave to await one who would claim it and become the Lich King's agent. Ner'zhul found his agent in Arthas Menethil, the young prince of Lordaeron who had come to Northrend in a quest to end the plague."

Read the fucking article, for real. Because if you try to refute what I just posted again, I'm just gonna resolve that you're a troll and stop responding to you.

[Vakna]

As others have said, Bolvar created the new gen Death Knights before the Helm was broken.

But that doesn't matter, you don't need to be the Lich King to create Death Knights. Gul'dan did it, Nathrezim do it, wielding a powerful runeblade can do it, even we did it in Legion. Presumably you just need to have particularly strong necromantic powers.

[Charge me Doctor]

"Ner'zhul was not content with being a pawn for the Burning Legion, however, and began working on a plan for escape. The first stage of his plan was set in motion when he used his powers to push Frostmourne through the ice and out of the Frozen Throne. It was sent to a cave to await one who would claim it and become the Lich King's agent. Ner'zhul found his agent in Arthas Menethil, the young prince of Lordaeron who had come to Northrend in a quest to end the plague."

Read the fucking article, for real. Because if you try to refute what I just posted again, I'm just gonna resolve that you're a troll and stop responding to you.

Also you:

Before he was locked in ice, Ner'zhul yeeted it off ICC to be later found by Arthas.

It's like you are making arguments on the fly, changing subjects, while reading wiki, which is lying to you, according to the damn book it references.

There is no canon confirmation that Nathrezim made the armour (wiki lies about that, linking two sources that say that they created frostmourne).

There is canon confirmation that ner'zhul made frostmourne into soul-stealing weapon we all know.

So yeah, frostmourne was definitely weaker than the helm, because frostmourne was made into what it is by power of the helm

[Reydan]

Also you:


It's like you are making arguments on the fly, changing subjects, while reading wiki, which is lying to you, according to the damn book it references.

There is no canon confirmation that Nathrezim made the armour (wiki lies about that, linking two sources that say that they created frostmourne).

There is canon confirmation that ner'zhul made frostmourne into soul-stealing weapon we all know.

So yeah, frostmourne was definitely weaker than the helm, because frostmourne was made into what it is by power of the helm

Frostmournes origin has a lot of retcons, first it was the Lich King who created it then the Demons and later the Nathrezim and now it comes from the Shadowlands. it actually comes from the same forge now where the Helmet of Domination is created.

[Charge me Doctor]

Frostmournes origin has a lot of retcons, first it was the Lich King who created it then the Demons and later the Nathrezim and now it comes from the Shadowlands. it actually comes from the same forge now where the Helmet of Domination is created.

There was just one retcon to frostmourne origin. At first, in WC3, Arthas is told by Tichondrius that the lich king forged the sword. Then, there is the rise of the lich king book, and in the same scene Tichondrius says: “The runeblade you carry was forged by my kind, long ago. The Lich King has empowered it to steal souls. Yours was the first one it claimed.”.

Which retcons the origin of frostmourne, previously it was "forged by the lich king", now it is "forged by [whatever Tichondrius means by "kind", maybe daemons, maybe Nathrezim, maybe something else] and empowered by the lich king", which implies, that originally (when the frostmourne was forged) it couldn't steal souls, it was empowered by an entity called the lich king, which was created by kil'jaeden destroying physical body of ner'zhul, merging his spirit with armour of domination, encasing him and frostmourne in ice from twisted nether, then throwing in into azeroth. Only at this very point entity called "the lich king" came to "life", only at this point the lich king was able to empower frostmourne to steal souls.

Now that blizzcon statement about the forge in the maw doesn't retcons anything by itself, because we lack information about the rules of shadowlands and the maw - nothing is changed with this announcement, frostmourne is still forged by "Tichondrious kind" and armour of domination is still forged by *unspecified*, we only know where those two artifacts were forged, this information hasn't changed anything yet, until we see the story move forward.

[TheRevenantHero]

Also you:


It's like you are making arguments on the fly, changing subjects, while reading wiki, which is lying to you, according to the damn book it references.

There is no canon confirmation that Nathrezim made the armour (wiki lies about that, linking two sources that say that they created frostmourne).

There is canon confirmation that ner'zhul made frostmourne into soul-stealing weapon we all know.

So yeah, frostmourne was definitely weaker than the helm, because frostmourne was made into what it is by power of the helm

THERE IS NO CANON CONFIRMATION THAT NER'ZHUL MADE FROSTMOURNE! Did you even pay attention to Blizzcon this year? It was said by the devs that bit the Helm and Frostmourne were created in the Shadowlands and w'll be finding out who actually forged both items. You absolutely have no idea that the actual fuck you're talking about.

[Aucald]

THERE IS NO CANON CONFIRMATION THAT NER'ZHUL MADE FROSTMOURNE! Did you even pay attention to Blizzcon this year? It was said by the devs that bit the Helm and Frostmourne were created in the Shadowlands and w'll be finding out who actually forged both items. You absolutely have no idea that the actual fuck you're talking about.

Ner'zhul didn't make Frostmourne at all. All we know about the origins of Frostmourne is that it was made by the Legion and put inside the diamond-like cask of ice that would become the Frozen Throne along with the Helm of Domination and the Plate of the Damned. We later find out that all these implements may have had their origins in the Shadowlands, somehow, but Ner'zhul wasn't their creator either way.

[Charge me Doctor]

THERE IS NO CANON CONFIRMATION THAT NER'ZHUL MADE FROSTMOURNE! Did you even pay attention to Blizzcon this year? It was said by the devs that bit the Helm and Frostmourne were created in the Shadowlands and w'll be finding out who actually forged both items. You absolutely have no idea that the actual fuck you're talking about.

So what? It doesn't matter who made it it was ner'zhul who made frostmourne into a soul-stealing weapon, before that it had only a portion of its power, i'm not posting that quote for, like, 3rd time, but frostmourne got its iconic power only after the lich king empowered it

[Aucald]

So what? It doesn't matter who made it it was ner'zhul who made frostmourne into a soul-stealing weapon, before that it had only a portion of its power, i'm not posting that quote for, like, 3rd time, but frostmourne got its iconic power only after the lich king empowered it

"Chronicle Vol. 3" details something of the forging of Frostmourne of Nathrezim - explicitly how they protected themselves from its effects during its forging, as it could take their souls and prevent them from going back to the Nether on death without additional enchantment. This shows that Frostmourne was a soul-stealing runeblade well before it was given to the first Lich King. It also explains the Nathrezim's role in being the Lich King stewards and erstwhile jailers, as they were immune to his most powerful possible ability to take souls unto himself.

[Charge me Doctor]

"Chronicle Vol. 3" details something of the forging of Frostmourne of Nathrezim - explicitly how they protected themselves from its effects during its forging, as it could take their souls and prevent them from going back to the Nether on death without additional enchantment. This shows that Frostmourne was a soul-stealing runeblade well before it was given to the first Lich King. It also explains the Nathrezim's role in being the Lich King stewards and erstwhile jailers, as they were immune to his most powerful possible ability to take souls unto himself.

Oh THAT would be a retcon

[letgoit]

It’s not called the Helm of Damnation lmao

[Aucald]

Oh THAT would be a retcon

Not really. I mean there is still the possibility, even the probability, that Ner'zhul further enhanced or altered Frostmourne in his bid for freedom from the Legion - this might explain more as to why his loss of it (when providing it to Arthas originally) hurt him so much, he put much of his essence into it and was thus unprepared for the damage its loss caused the Frozen Throne.

[Tiwack]

So what? It doesn't matter who made it it was ner'zhul who made frostmourne into a soul-stealing weapon, before that it had only a portion of its power, i'm not posting that quote for, like, 3rd time, but frostmourne got its iconic power only after the lich king empowered it

Nerzhul was punished for his betrayal of KJ to be his puppet imprisoned in the helmet, he had nothing to do with frostmourne other than tossing it in Arthas direction. Both artifacts were crafted by the Nathrezim for KJs scheme in service of Sargs legion. It's a slight retcon if anything in regards to who made it and a minor unimportant detail in comparison to some of the other retcons.

[Reydan]

There was just one retcon to frostmourne origin. At first, in WC3, Arthas is told by Tichondrius that the lich king forged the sword. Then, there is the rise of the lich king book, and in the same scene Tichondrius says: “The runeblade you carry was forged by my kind, long ago. The Lich King has empowered it to steal souls. Yours was the first one it claimed.”.

Which retcons the origin of frostmourne, previously it was "forged by the lich king", now it is "forged by [whatever Tichondrius means by "kind", maybe daemons, maybe Nathrezim, maybe something else] and empowered by the lich king", which implies, that originally (when the frostmourne was forged) it couldn't steal souls, it was empowered by an entity called the lich king, which was created by kil'jaeden destroying physical body of ner'zhul, merging his spirit with armour of domination, encasing him and frostmourne in ice from twisted nether, then throwing in into azeroth. Only at this very point entity called "the lich king" came to "life", only at this point the lich king was able to empower frostmourne to steal souls.

Now that blizzcon statement about the forge in the maw doesn't retcons anything by itself, because we lack information about the rules of shadowlands and the maw - nothing is changed with this announcement, frostmourne is still forged by "Tichondrious kind" and armour of domination is still forged by *unspecified*, we only know where those two artifacts were forged, this information hasn't changed anything yet, until we see the story move forward.

Ehm no it has been retconned two times. First it was created by the Lich King in Reign of Chaos told by Tichondrius himself, later in Manual of Monsters by demons and in Rise of the Lich king those demons where told to be the Nathrezim. Tichondrius is a Nathrezim btw, Dreadlords are Nathrezim.

You don't have to tell me the entire story of the Lich King I know it like the back of my hand.

Edit: To be fair you are right in a way it IS retconned ones, because Nathrezim are demons...

[TheRevenantHero]

Ehm no it has been retconned two times. First it was created by the Lich King in Reign of Chaos told by Tichondrius himself, later in Manual of Monsters by demons and in Rise of the Lich king those demons where told to be the Nathrezim. Tichondrius is a Nathrezim btw, Dreadlords are Nathrezim.

You don't have to tell me the entire story of the Lich King I know it like the back of my hand.

Edit: To be fair you are right in a way it IS retconned ones, because Nathrezim are demons...

And it's been retconned again with Shadowlands. The Nathrezim didn't craft it after all and apparently stole it from the Shadowlands.

[Aucald]

And it's been retconned again with Shadowlands. The Nathrezim didn't craft it after all and apparently stole it from the Shadowlands.

We don't really know that they stole it explicitly. We know the items were forged at the Forge of Domination within the Shadowlands, but they could've easily been requisitioned by the Legion, or Nathrezim smiths could've somehow made their way into that realm to make use of the forges there. We apparently learn more in Torghast, where the Forge of Domination is apparently located.

[Clara777]

Eh, the Helm of Domination being forged by the Nathrezim vs it being stolen by the Nathrezim doesn't really change the story in a significant way. They never delved into that in game so why not make a minor retcon so they can write new, possibly better content?

[Dark Succ]

Kind of late to complain about retcons if you're okay with WC3 completely rewriting the entire mythos, IMO.

The difference is, WC3 made warcraft even better. Those retcons were welcome.

It went downhill with TBC. That was the point we started eating lore characters like Teron Gorefiend, Gruul the Motherfucking Dragonkiller, Illidan, Vashj, Kael'thas and Kargath for breakfast. (Don't mention Kel'thuzad, you can't kill that sick fuck)

Seriously, TBC was great gameplay wise, but it's lore left something to be desired.