Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Zaktar]

The Ewoks serve as a clumsy Vietnam reference at the least. Also I'm bored, so why not?

Discussion about the symbolic meaning of space teddy bears vs space horsies will have to wait for the film to actually come out. In the meantime, if you didn't like the last films and don't want to watch this one, cool! Let's not pretend it's due to a moment in the trailer being too silly for Star Wars

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ieeeeeeeeyahhhhhhh!!!!!!!

When the one Ewok dies, and the other one comes over and kind of pushes him, then realizes he died... yeah as a kid I cried. It still makes me sad.

[Nefarious Tea]

/shrug, Han's the one who refers to him as the brains of the operation. It's Obi-Wan whose plan procures them the armor, Han wanted to just charge forward and fight everyone on the station. Then they're lounging when Artoo finds the princess and Luke persuades the group to rescue her, using his strategy. The plan as presented is super thin and would never work in the real world, but it works in what is arguably one of the highest security areas in the galaxy so, by the setting's standards, yes, he is apparently a master infiltrator and strategist.

Han Solo calls Luke "the brains of the operation" as an obviously sarcastic comment when things go south. He doesn't mean it literally; he means "coming here and rescuing this random woman was YOUR IDEA, now it's YOUR JOB to get us out."

[Zaktar]

Luke had actual failures...you forgot how he struggled to lift rocks and such with training...while she with no training at all was lifting bigger things and more things than he has after tutelage from both Obi Wan and Yoda.

Makes me wonder if baby Yoda exists just to excuse Rey for having no training but almost masterful control.

Isn't Rey's struggle getting through to Luke in TLJ? Luke has a master all but handed to him, Rey has to actually put some effort in to get one. All of Rey's supposed mastery amounts to almost nothing in the face of Snoke, he handles her easily; she is only saved by the clever treachery of Kylo Ren. To me her mastery of the easy parts of being a Jedi don't convince me that she's any more of a mary sue than Luke. I don't really think he is one either, just that protagonists often are unreasonably skillful. Her ability to lift some rocks is somewhat useful thanks to a significant plot contrivance, and she isn't called upon to do anything as difficult as lifting an X-Wing. To me the problem is that the film doesn't give her enough time to develop, tries to spread itself too thin across an ensemble cast.

Han Solo calls Luke "the brains of the operation" as an obviously sarcastic comment when things go south. He doesn't mean it literally; he means "coming here and rescuing this random woman was YOUR IDEA, now it's YOUR JOB to get us out."

Right... but it was Luke's plan, which was the point. And his plan worked far better than it should have, which was the initial point.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Luke had actual failures...you forgot how he struggled to lift rocks and such with training...while she with no training at all was lifting bigger things and more things than he has after tutelage from both Obi Wan and Yoda.

Makes me wonder if baby Yoda exists just to excuse Rey for having no training but almost masterful control.

we have known since before rey existed that force lifting is an easy thing they teach to kids they didn't need baby Yoda for that at all. the only reason luke has trouble is because he has a mental block which yoda points out. rey/kylo are strogner then luke and don't have such a mental block.

and before any one thinks i'm defending rey, she's bloody awful but her force ability's aren't a problem in the scope of starwars other then the mind trick.

[Kyphael]

Training scene:

I like how old Jedi are like fat cops. They train you to do what they haven't been able to do in a long time. Very much doubt Yoda can still do a headstand in old age.

[Shadowferal]

I like how old Jedi are like fat cops. They train you to do what they haven't been able to do in a long time. Very much doubt Yoda can still do a headstand in old age.

In my interpretation, Yoda wouldn't need to do a handstand.
Although in this case with Luke, I would think it's more about the mere effort, between keeping balance, and the strength...it's all a distracting illusion to harness his discipline with more external efforts.

[Gorsameth]

I like how old Jedi are like fat cops. They train you to do what they haven't been able to do in a long time. Very much doubt Yoda can still do a headstand in old age.

~20 years earlier he was jumping around as a ballerina against both Dooku and Palatine.

Pretty sure he can still do a handstand.

[Kokolums]

One/Two person vehicles...which all bikes are. Tanks have been everything...hover, wheels, and even legs...but speeder bikes have always been hover. Jawa Crawler is like a house, cheaper and easier on treads.

For a organization that had conquered a large chunk of the galaxy yet again, and was able to build something vastly larger than the Death Star before they were so widespread...no reason to not to use hovering tech, unless you don't know anything about lore, don't care, or trying to make something "cool".

JJ Has been guilty of all three in the past...

Yoda has a floating chair in the prequels, which is an incredibly convenient and useful invention to the point that probably half the population of the galaxy (or more) would be seen with such devices as an everyday tool.

[Malaky]

Isn't Rey's struggle getting through to Luke in TLJ?

No it's not, and she cruised all the way through her way to Luke anyway.

Luke has a master all but handed to him, Rey has to actually put some effort in to get one.

And then best him in combat in a day and a half.

All of Rey's supposed mastery amounts to almost nothing in the face of Snoke,

Good gods, at least they had the decency not to have Rey trumping the new Emperor on their first meeting!

To me her mastery of the easy parts of being a Jedi don't convince me that she's any more of a mary sue than Luke.

She becomes OP within a span of three days without any effort while everyone circles around her in praise and support, especially the old cast.
That's the definition of a Mary Sue.

[Zaktar]

No it's not, and she cruised all the way through her way to Luke anyway.



And then best him in combat in a day and a half.



Good gods, at least they had the decency not to have Rey trumping the new Emperor on their first meeting!



She becomes OP within a span of three days without any effort while everyone circles around her in praise and support, especially the old cast.
That's the definition of a Mary Sue.

I guess Luke is a Mary Sue too, remember that time he outflew everyone in the rebellion and blew up the death star in that day or two after he was working on a farm for a living with zero combat skills? Then got fanfare and ceremony dedicated to him? All with zero effort.

[s_bushido]

I guess Luke is a Mary Sue too, remember that time he outflew everyone in the rebellion and blew up the death star in that day or two after he was working on a farm for a living with zero combat skills? Then got fanfare and ceremony dedicated to him? All with zero effort.

He didn't even use his targeting equipment. What a show-off.

[Fayolynn]

I guess Luke is a Mary Sue too, remember that time he outflew everyone in the rebellion and blew up the death star in that day or two after he was working on a farm for a living with zero combat skills? Then got fanfare and ceremony dedicated to him? All with zero effort.

This is such a disingenuous argument/a complete misunderstanding of the movie.

First the movie establishes he already has skills as a pilot prior to to the events of the movie. The the movie actually shows us how much of a rookie he is despite being called "the best bushpilot in the outer rim territories." He almost gets himself killed attacking a terbolaser battery by flying to close to it when trying to take it out, the explosion almost got him. Then he let's himself get separated from the rest of the squadron and almost dies but gets saved by Wedge. Then during the trench run he almost dies again only surviving because Han Solo returned.

As for him destroying the Death Star it really isnt that amazing of an achievement considering a non force user almost made the shot moments early. Luke would have missed the shot as well if it wasn't for Obi-Wan speaking to him from the grave and reminding him to use the one single force ability he had recieved any training with. Specifically how to sense the right moment to act.

So to recap you are claiming someone who would have died twice during the deathstar attack if others hadn't saved his life and then needed a ghost to remind him to use his training outflow everyone and destroyed the deathstar on his own. Luke was completely out of his league and needed others to carry him to victory.

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He didn't even use his targeting equipment. What a show-off.

You know he didnt use the targeting computer because the movie was mirroring his earlier training with Obi-Wan right? When training with the remote droid he failed to block its attacks because he was relying on his sight on not the force so Obi-Wan blinded him with the visor. Then during the trench run he needed to blind himself by turning off the targetting computer so that he didnt rely on his sight to try and make the shot.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So to recap you are claiming someone who would have died twice during the deathstar attack if others hadn't saved his life and then needed a ghost to remind him to use his training outflow everyone and destroyed the deathstar on his own. Luke was completely out of his league and needed others to carry him to victory.

I don’t know if your defending the Rey is a Mary Sue but Luke isn’t view but if you are do you not see the irony in going into detail about what luke does but leaving out all the details to Rey’s feats?

Even ignoring that when you compare the two for Luke we are just told he knows how to fly while Rey actually shows combat skill and training before she actually fights any one of note.

Rey is literally show don’t tell but people complain about that instead of her complete lack of character traits. It’s mind boggling.

[Zaktar]

This is such a disingenuous argument/a complete misunderstanding of the movie.

First the movie establishes he already has skills as a pilot prior to to the events of the movie. The the movie actually shows us how much of a rookie he is despite being called "the best bushpilot in the outer rim territories." He almost gets himself killed attacking a terbolaser battery by flying to close to it when trying to take it out, the explosion almost got him. Then he let's himself get separated from the rest of the squadron and almost dies but gets saved by Wedge. Then during the trench run he almost dies again only surviving because Han Solo returned.

As for him destroying the Death Star it really isnt that amazing of an achievement considering a non force user almost made the shot moments early. Luke would have missed the shot as well if it wasn't for Obi-Wan speaking to him from the grave and reminding him to use the one single force ability he had recieved any training with. Specifically how to sense the right moment to act.

So to recap you are claiming someone who would have died twice during the deathstar attack if others hadn't saved his life and then needed a ghost to remind him to use his training outflow everyone and destroyed the deathstar on his own. Luke was completely out of his league and needed others to carry him to victory.

No more disingenuous than the argument I responded to, there are quite a few mitigating factors in Rey's favor as well, which her detractors prefer to ignore. I acknowledged earlier that neither is a Mary Sue. Rey's accomplishments are arguably much more modest and in line with what we know of her than Luke's. Two things about that last trench run: a) the pilot previous to him used the equipment designed to hit difficult targets and almost hit, compared to Luke definitely hitting on sheer instinct (but he used the force! great, so did Rey) b) being a great pilot in your beat up old cesna does not remotely mean you will be an ace in an f-16 with absolutely, positively no training. It's a stretch, it's a stretch we're used to in movies, it's just for some reason a problem in the new films.

Let's look at another example, one people would probably argue is one of Luke's failures - Luke vs Vader in Empire. Previous to this Luke has: trained on a remote with Obi-Wan, played around in front of the mirror in Hoth with his lightsaber, and had no training that we see with it on Dagobah, and yet he fights a master to a virtual standstill. Even if we assume Yoda did some training offscreen on the long weekend at Dagobah, even given that he loses this time, this is quite a feat. Not much later, still with frankly no one to teach him, he walks all over Vader. Contrast that to Rey, who has been fighting with a melee weapon apparently for some time, defeating a grievously wounded Kylo Ren - a young man who almost certainly was not as well trained as Vader. To me, Luke's accomplishment is more of a stretch than Rey's.

[s_bushido]

You know he didnt use the targeting computer because the movie was mirroring his earlier training with Obi-Wan right? When training with the remote droid he failed to block its attacks because he was relying on his sight on not the force so Obi-Wan blinded him with the visor. Then during the trench run he needed to blind himself by turning off the targetting computer so that he didnt rely on his sight to try and make the shot.

You mean to tell me that The Force lets people do things they otherwise couldn't? What is this, Star Wars, or something?

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

If Force Unleashed is canon (humf) then technically clones can be implanted with memories including fighting styles.

I'm not saying it's good writing or that it makes sense, just that it could be a thing.

It was a major plot element in the Thrawn Trilogy and later Hand of Thrawn : Spaarti cloning cylinders allowing for the cloning of fully grown clones with duplicate memory.

[Lothaeryn]

Reminds me of something mentioned in some relatively recent story featuring Thrawn, where he mentions that in his culture they use youth to guide them in hyperspace, and that the translation of the title the Chiss give them is sky walker

Pretty sure that is exactly what they are going with. The title being 'restored' to the children of the Force: 'Those who walk the skies are guided by the Force' or some such, also to honor the Skywalker legacy as their chapter is closed permanently.

Whether or not Skywalkers will have the tenets of the Jedi or not remains to be seen, or if they will be a more pure iteration of Force wielders, perhaps with some essence of the Darkside that they balance.

[Kallisto]

"sPacE KuNG FU bUDdHisT mONks uSiNg LaSEr sWOrDs"

Sorry, but that line (and all its variations) is tired and just a means to be snarky.

OT is a space opera, for sure, but you wouldn't see that shit happening there.

You saw all this kind of shit happening all the fucking time in the OT.

Cliché story where nothing makes sense? Check. Case Luke with the same amount of training as a day 1 youngling able to use the force like a fucking Pro to put a torpedo down a near impossible exhaust target.

Space Station size of a small moon with near infinite power? Check

Second space station size of an even larger moon with basically infinite power? Check

Bad acting (in star wars unless you were Alec Guinness or Peter Cushing your acting was borderine atrocious at best.)

Lucas making it up as he went along with plot holes and retcons? Yea (don't give me certain point of view bullshit. Lucas when he brought out Star wars had no arcing plan no Vader is Lukes dad. He was thought of at the time in Lucas mind as the killer or Lukes dad.)

Really dumb machines. Sorry nothing in the Star wars universe at planet level is as bad designed as AT-AT and AT-ST with more flaws than an "Hit me exhaust port."

Ewoks.

Wondering who the hell trained Luke between each of the movies. (not buying self taught.)

[Xorzor]

I'll watch Episode IX out of curiosity. Hopefully the franchise ends with this film, and doesn't pull a Terminator by continuing to make pointless or SJW-pandering sequels.

[Kallisto]

I'll watch Episode IX out of curiosity. Hopefully the franchise ends with this film, and doesn't pull a Terminator by continuing to make pointless or SJW-pandering sequels.

Sjw pandering? Fucking hell Star wars has always been far left to what the "anti sjws." aka "far right but so far in the closet they found their mother's bondage equipment. " Consider normal.