[UK] General Election 2019

[Shadowmelded]

On Harold Wilson and Labour of those years there was an awful lot they did wrong that also got blamed on the torys.

Such as?

Befor Blair, remember Harold Wilson was the one known as the betrayer of the left. A monkier he was given dispite how Liberal his social policy's)(if every you needed evidence that socialist are happy to use and throw away liberals.... But that beside the point)

I mean, he tried to implement the exact same policies the Heath Government later implemented with regards to Unions and introduced wage (and price) caps (although not the same caps that led to the power cuts). Given that Labour is supposed to be the party of, well, Labour it's not surprising people felt he betrayed the Left by attempting to betray workers at the time. It was also exaggerated, essentially, by his successors who wanted to reshape the party towards their ideological bent.

Harlod Wilson did over see unemployment reach its highest ever level with 1million unemployed by the time he left office.

In his first term unemployment was fairly low. In his second term it rose from 1 million to 1.5 million. Under Thatcher it rose from 1.5 to 3 million and that's after she changed the accounting methods;

Thatcher's government implemented many measures meant to make it harder to claim benefit, and eventually began counting only those actually receiving benefits in unemployment figures, excluding those who had applied for benefits but had not yet begun receiving them, or who had been recognized as unemployed but denied benefit. as well as certain marginal categories of the unemployed such as men over 60, whether they received benefit or not.

It has been retrospectively estimated that the official measure for calculating the unemployment rate was changed at least 29 times between 1979 and 1989. Later in the decade, the government began instructing doctors with the National Health Service to find ways where they could to diagnose unemployed patients with illnesses or injuries resulting from their previous work so they could receive sickness or invalidity benefit and thus no longer be considered unemployed

He also serious hurt developing nations by making massive cuts to foreign spending through the national plan.

It went from 0.59% of GNP to 0.39%. He also introduced interest free loans to developing countries so I don't know if "seriously hurt them" is accurate...

And he massively cut domesting spending, implementing the same austerity measures we now blame the torys for today.

He also implemented a stimulus, introduced new benefits, increased spending on benefits, food and housing subsidies and an increase in the state pension (on top of changes that linked it to earnings and benefited women). The real issue he was facing was devaluation which he eventually conceded (along with austerity, not trying to recover from a recession with austerity or austerity as a panacea that the Tories push).

He also tried to supsidise many failing industry's and promoted a protectionist economy, the ver same style of economy we critisise trump for because its stupid and dosnt work to fend of the enevitable.

Tony Benn was actually the one promoting a protectionist economy which Wilson rejected and later the cabinet did as well. Economic planning was the consensus of the day, not just a Labour position and a few of the industries served a national purpose, like shipbuilding.

[BloodyAngel12]

Well that was a car crash interview last night, i really hope BoJo gets the same treatment but i have no faith in the BBC to do it.

[Jessicka]

Well that was a car crash interview last night, i really hope BoJo gets the same treatment but i have no faith in the BBC to do it.

They won’t. Wall to wall cover of the Rabi saying don’t vote Labour, no mention at all of the Tory candidates getting thrown out for literal holocaust denial, nor any mention of Hessletine saying don’t vote Tory.

The bias isn’t even subtle at this point.

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It's very rare and risky having globalised company's directly tied that heavily to a goverment, even China is wary of that.

You also tie your own job security and wage to the performance of other industry's.

Also you have no avenue for part company ownership or co-operative ownership or if you do it heavily profit controlled.

Also your boss's own the police and write the laws.

Then there's the devaluation of Labour, and wages and middle manager bloat as they tend to over hire as a form of wealfair by the back door when they want to make unemployment Stats look good.

Oh and your pay and pension is tied to political whim.

This is though harks at the fundementaly problem with alot of radical left policy. It's drawn from a system that assumes once its won it will stay that way. We live in democracys nothing is perminant.

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That's an oxymoron, it's not neutral if it's singularly owned by a state.

Net neutrality is Internet libertarianism. And unrestricted markets without regulation. Not just anti silicon Valley meddling,

Net neutrality is not blocking, throttling or paywalling content to internet sections owned and run by other corporations. The US ISPs have been all over trying to do this for a while, and is exactly the kind of thing the current Conservatives would be all over allowing.

Also seems from your other posts you’re hellbent on blaming Labour for global crises, and the Tory governments’ responses to them.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Well that was a car crash interview last night, i really hope BoJo gets the same treatment but i have no faith in the BBC to do it.

Yep, wasn't great was it.

Cue panic’y response from Labour activists:

“Ten minutes purely on AS”



That said, I’m not a huge fan of religious leaders / organisations (either the Chief Rabbi or the Muslim Council of Britain) telling their respective tribes to vote a particular way. They can fuck off, frankly.

And the idea that Neil gives a fuck about anti-semitism is ludicrous. Of course it’s an issue, but there are more important issues. Yes, it’ll be interesting to see if Neil focuses on BJ’s character (fitness to lead), which is a non issue or whether he focuses on something important.

[BloodyAngel12]

It dosnt help that the Rabbi is a known friend of BoJo.

[Monster Hunter]

They won’t. Wall to wall cover of the Rabi saying don’t vote Labour, no mention at all of the Tory candidates getting thrown out for literal holocaust denial, nor any mention of Hessletine saying don’t vote Tory.

The bias isn’t even subtle at this point.

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Net neutrality is not blocking, throttling or paywalling content to internet sections owned and run by other corporations. The US ISPs have been all over trying to do this for a while, and is exactly the kind of thing the current Conservatives would be all over allowing.

Also seems from your other posts you’re hellbent on blaming Labour for global crises, and the Tory governments’ responses to them.

It's still not neutral if its goverment owned and
Well I spend most of my day pointing out the fault of torys in a mostly tory office, it nice when I get chance to level scourn at the other problem in our country and most of shadowmelds replys have been "yes but" and "but the torys also" which is perfectly my point.

Labour dosn't get an easy critisim free road or gets automatically seen as good people, not after Iraq.

[Pann]

It dosnt help that the Rabbi is a known friend of BoJo.

Is he? I can only find pro-Labour sources - The Canary, Morning Star, etc - supporting this claim and from what I have read it seems to be based on the Rabbi congratulating Johnson becoming PM.

Is there any evidence from - shall we say? - more balanced sources?

[BloodyAngel12]

Is he? I can only find pro-Labour sources - The Canary, Morning Star, etc - supporting this claim and from what I have read it seems to be based on the Rabbi congratulating Johnson becoming PM.

Is there any evidence from - shall we say? - more balanced sources?

[Monster Hunter]

You keep lying about this. I responded to your claim that Labour were outspending the Tories. Tufnel had not entered the thread at that point.

Just give it up.

Even when I give you the quote your delusion won't let you see the truth.

Your discredited mate, not that you had any to begone with, as a soc account your opinion is worth less than mud anyway

[LeGin Tufnel]

lol

We're getting into grammarcat territory

I'd interpret that as:

Boris Johnson, a longstanding friend (and champion) of the Jewish community.

Not that he's an actual friend of the author.

[Pann]

Yeah, is there any evidence aside from a tweet where the word 'friend' is used? And I would point out that he does not say that Johnson is his friend but 'a longstanding friend [...] of the Jewish community'.

If this is the basis of the claims that Johnson and the Chief Rabbi are friends it seems to be extremely weak. Is there any actual evidence that the two of them are friends and that somehow their friendship has influenced the Rabbi's comments?

[BloodyAngel12]

I just dont think its fair that religious leaders wading into a democratic election. That's all i can find about the 2 people so i apologise about the above post.

[LeGin Tufnel]

He's standing next to Boris Johnson in the photograph, with David Cameron standing behind him. What more proof do you want? Footage of them in a pub playing pool while trading Palestinian jokes?

Dude. Really?

A picture of BJ standing next to the Chief Rabbi at some sort of official event is not proof that they're "friends".

I could post a picture of Corbyn standing next to..... I dunno... the fucking Queen. It doesn't mean they're friends either, does it.

Look - this is a complete non issue. I do not care about the Chief bloody Rabbi.

[Monster Hunter]

Every time Zionists attack Corbyn he goes up in the polls.

If Corbyn were more calculating I would suspect he was organizing it.

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As any one can check you quoted a post which was responding to me and therefore couldn't possibly be my point of entry into the thread. Just stop lying, no one's buying your bullshit.

You have no point of entry because your a soc account, one that has no point, you tryed discrediting the IFS with opinion and failed.

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Dude. Really?

A picture of BJ standing next to the Chief Rabbi at some sort of official event is not proof that they're "friends".

I could post a picture of Corbyn standing next to..... I dunno... the fucking Queen. It doesn't mean they're friends either, does it.

Look - this is a complete non issue. I do not care about the Chief bloody Rabbi.

He's run out of legitimate points, now he's just playing ad hominem tennis hoping for an out to go clean the egg off his face,

The mods will be along shortly to delete his account and posts like what happens in the brexit thread, he's a troll that makes new accounts every day by his own admittance.

Personaly I feel sorry for Jessicka having this guy on her side brings only discredit.

[Elegiac]

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says he has 451 pages of unredacted documents that confirm the NHS will be on the table in post-Brexit trade talks with the U.S.

Boy am I glad I practiced my surprised Pikachu face for this exact moment.

[Monster Hunter]

snip <High sodium content because he got called out>

There ya go bud.

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Yep, wasn't great was it.

Cue panic’y response from Labour activists:

“Ten minutes purely on AS”



That said, I’m not a huge fan of religious leaders / organisations (either the Chief Rabbi or the Muslim Council of Britain) telling their respective tribes to vote a particular way. They can fuck off, frankly.

And the idea that Neil gives a fuck about anti-semitism is ludicrous. Of course it’s an issue, but there are more important issues. Yes, it’ll be interesting to see if Neil focuses on BJ’s character (fitness to lead), which is a non issue or whether he focuses on something important.

That's interesting.

I actually enjoy seeing the "behind the scenes" of political propaganda and spin.

I mean we all know politicians are all a bunch of lieing two faced ass holes, but it's interesting seeing the mechanisms of propaganda.

[Jessicka]

That's interesting.

I actually enjoy seeing the "behind the scenes" of political propaganda and spin.

I mean we all know politicians are all a bunch of lieing two faced ass holes, but it's interesting seeing the mechanisms of propaganda.

Well you can watch it in action, a day of wall-to-wall piling on Corbyn over antisemitism, next day, what do you know, 450 pages of secret talks flogging off the NHS appear.

Almost like someone was anticipating this and wanted to bury some bad news and keep the lens off them.

[Monster Hunter]

Well you can watch it in action, a day of wall-to-wall piling on Corbyn over antisemitism, next day, what do you know, 450 pages of secret talks flogging off the NHS appear.

Almost like someone was anticipating this and wanted to bury some bad news and keep the lens off them.

Yea but then only corbyn seems to have read this 450 page document. As Laura kuenssberg put in the BBC article "it's important though, that jeramy corbyn dosent provide evidence"

All we actualy have is a claim of evidence but no actual evidence. Which is mostly why the news cycle is focusing on corbyns car crash Interview with Andrew Niel at the moment, god know why he didn't just say "we are sorry and we are dealing with it" but sorry isn't in most politicians vocabulary I guess.

If Labour want the NHS line to stick and be effective they need to publish the paper. Corbyns problem with the people is trust, people just don't trust him, the way around that it's to show he can be trusted by providing the evidence he has for us to read.

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Every time Zionists attack Corbyn he goes up in the polls.

For other people reading:

if any one wants to know how best to look like a racisist POS but don't want to use the n-word, use the word Zionist unironicaly.

It's begfers belife how after the nazi party used that term to excuse the killing of millions of Jews how any one with any back bone would still use it in 2019.

[Jessicka]

Yea but then only corbyn seems to have read this 450 page document. As Laura kuenssberg put in the BBC article "it's important though, that jeramy corbyn dosent provide evidence"

All we actualy have is a claim of evidence but no actual evidence. Which is mostly why the news cycle is focusing on corbyns car crash Interview with Andrew Niel at the moment, god know why he didn't just say "we are sorry and we are dealing with it" but sorry isn't in most politicians vocabulary I guess.

If Labour want the NHS line to stick and be effective they need to publish the paper. Corbyns problem with the people is trust, people just don't trust him, the way around that it's to show he can be trusted by providing the evidence he has for us to read.

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For other people reading:

if any one wants to know how best to look like a racisist POS but don't want to use the n-word, use the word Zionist unironicaly.

It's begfers belife how after the nazi party used that term to excuse the killing of millions of Jews how any one with any back bone would still use it in 2019.

Doesn't provide evidence that the evidence is evidence? What the fuck are you smoking? It's actual agreements and minutes of meetings between government officials and US officials. It is what it is, she's arguing that because it doesn't have actual the actual ministers names who they're representing on it, that she can ask those questions. It's the idiotic "I'm just asking questions" defence.

Kuenssberg is just a terrible journalist who's been reprimanded for obvious bias before. Just because she's improved at hiding it, doesn't mean it's gone anywhere.

The BBC have an actual policy of not calling out ministers directly, even for straight up lying so as not to undermine them. That's why they hide their "reality checks" at the bottom of the website, and say nothing of them through other media.

[Monster Hunter]

Yes, criticism of Israel makes you a nazi. Nothing Israel does can ever be criticized, including burning children to death.

Ahh yes the go to defence of the anti semite "buh buh I was critising Isreal"

please tell me what conspiracy theory you have that links isreal to the anti sematism scandal, last I checked it's was British Jews that were afraid of the rehotic.

Eod you can give critisim of isreal without using terms like Zionist, the reason you use those terms is the same reason the Nazis used those terms, to allude to a grand Jewish conspiracy and dehumanised the individual to get people to see them as a single block.

You are a POS, it's nice you made the very clear.

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Doesn't provide evidence that the evidence is evidence? What the fuck are you smoking? It's actual agreements and minutes of meetings between government officials and US officials. It is what it is, she's arguing that because it doesn't have actual the actual ministers names who they're representing on it, that she can ask those questions. It's the idiotic "I'm just asking questions" defence.

Kuenssberg is just a terrible journalist who's been reprimanded for obvious bias before. Just because she's improved at hiding it, doesn't mean it's gone anywhere.

Have you read it?
That's what she's saying, that other than corbyn and probly a few other Labour party memebers, no one has read it. Saying you have evidence and waving about a pice of paper on camera isn't actually evidence, that's what she's saying, untill you can read the document your self it's just hearsay.