Why flying being gated behind rep grind makes no sense

[SirCowdog]

I disagree. But hey to each his/her own.

I think pathfinder is okay.

/facepalm

Please read.

"as long as we're stuck with Pathfinder, what I mentioned above is a simple and easy fix that makes literally everyone happy"

You think pathfinder is ok? So we put a pathfinder on each zone. Would this not ALSO be "ok" in your book?

[Dhrizzle]

Pathfinder exists for the sole reason to bolster time played metrics. Nothing more, nothing less.

The whole game exists to bolster time played metrics... that's why people make games, so other people will play them.

[Laqweeta]

The whole game exists to bolster time played metrics... that's why people make games, so other people will play them.

I should've added in COMPARED to BC, WotLK, Cata and MoP.

[Dhrizzle]

I should've added in COMPARED to BC, WotLK, Cata and MoP.

Those expansions all had some sort of bullshit grind for rewards that, if you didn't enjoy them, could be lamented as only being there to bolster time played metrics.

[Laqweeta]

Those expansions all had some sort of bullshit grind for rewards that, if you didn't enjoy them, could be lamented as only being there to bolster time played metrics.

No not really. I'm not sure how you can compare FLYING to a fucking enchant that you could buy off the AH if you didn't want to grind it lmao.

[Witchblade77]

Those expansions all had some sort of bullshit grind for rewards that, if you didn't enjoy them, could be lamented as only being there to bolster time played metrics.

BC and WotLK didn't have those grinds time gated. every single one of those grinds had an alternative that allowed you to speed it up in some way and/or delegate the grind to couple of days a week and not feel like you are falling behind instead of having to do limited dailies every day. yes, dailies were there, but they were NOT the only way to do those grinds. you could run dungeons. you could farm turn in items. Cata is where it started to go downhill with MoP having its own issues with the whole gating of reps behind other reps. but it wasn't until WoD that we REALLY started to get into time gates, which incidentally is where we also got pathfinder.

you see the major difference here is flexibility in playtime. current grinds really want you to grind every day or fall way WAY behind.

[Chemii]

Here’s the thing. On average, I probably play WOW 2-3 days a week outside of raid nights for an hour or 2 each time. Between my job, family and other hobbies, I don’t log into wow every day. So, I’d clear my 3 emissaries twice a week and hopefully get a guild +10 on the 3rd day.

Now that I have flying, I get so much more done in the same amount of time.

Much more done...like what?

It's just a toolbox fallacy, there is nothing to "do" in this expansion with flying. If it's old world content you already had it so?

[Dhrizzle]

BC and WotLK didn't have those grinds time gated. every single one of those grinds had an alternative that allowed you to speed it up in some way and/or delegate the grind to couple of days a week and not feel like you are falling behind instead of having to do limited dailies every day. yes, dailies were there, but they were NOT the only way to do those grinds. you could run dungeons. you could farm turn in items. Cata is where it started to go downhill with MoP having its own issues with the whole gating of reps behind other reps. but it wasn't until WoD that we REALLY started to get into time gates, which incidentally is where we also got pathfinder.

you see the major difference here is flexibility in playtime. current grinds really want you to grind every day or fall way WAY behind.

TBC had Ogri'la, WotLK had the Frenzyheart/Oracles, Cataclysm had the Molten Front (not specifically rep related but still tied to dailies) and MoP had Tillers and Anglers.

Add to that the grinds you tried to wave away like Kurenai and Skyguard that required mindlessly grinding certain mobs, or almost every other rep in those expansions that mixed dailies with getting you to grind dungeons non-stop, easily something that could be criticised as being there to "bolster time played metrics."

Then you have systems like daily heroic dungeon locks/weekly raid locks which combine with RNG to make players run the same content over and over if they want a specific piece of loot. Or the daily dungeon quest/first LFD reward in WotLK that gives badges for higher tiers of gear so players have to log in every day to do a dungeon. Again if you're a player who doesn't like it you could claim it was only there to milk subscription money or "bolster time played metrics."

[Witchblade77]

TBC had Ogri'la, WotLK had the Frenzyheart/Oracles, Cataclysm had the Molten Front (not specifically rep related but still tied to dailies) and MoP had Tillers and Anglers.

Add to that the grinds you tried to wave away like Kurenai and Skyguard that required mindlessly grinding certain mobs, or almost every other rep in those expansions that mixed dailies with getting you to grind dungeons non-stop, easily something that could be criticised as being there to "bolster time played metrics."

Then you have systems like daily heroic dungeon locks/weekly raid locks which combine with RNG to make players run the same content over and over if they want a specific piece of loot. Or the daily dungeon quest/first LFD reward in WotLK that gives badges for higher tiers of gear so players have to log in every day to do a dungeon. Again if you're a player who doesn't like it you could claim it was only there to milk subscription money or "bolster time played metrics."

I waved away absolutely nothing. none of those grinds were required for any sort of meta to unlock anything extra. and Kurenai/Skyguard had turn in/grind mobs option to speed up the rep.

having dailies is =/= locking away quality of life improvements behind time gates that can NOT be sped up in any way.

[Dhrizzle]

I waved away absolutely nothing. none of those grinds were required for any sort of meta to unlock anything extra. and Kurenai/Skyguard had turn in/grind mobs option to speed up the rep.

having dailies is =/= locking away quality of life improvements behind time gates that can NOT be sped up in any way.

Sorry I can't keep up with all this goalpost moving. The original criticism was Pathfinder only existing for the sake of played time metrics. Lots of systems can be criticised the same way as WoW is fundamentally made up of repeatable content that gives rewards but for some reason they don't count.

[schwank05]

Yeah, it should be available at mid level while leveling like Wrath and CATA.

[Witchblade77]

Sorry I can't keep up with all this goalpost moving. The original criticism was Pathfinder only existing for the sake of played time metrics. Lots of systems can be criticised the same way as WoW is fundamentally made up of repeatable content that gives rewards but for some reason they don't count.

its not a moved goalpost. pathfinder exists because people want flight and its time gated to pad those metrics of daily logins. more optional rep grinds or rep grinds that allow you to grind extra on the weekend and still catch up to someone who grinded every day? do NOT pad those daily playtime metrics in the same way. they also do NOT delay people as much. since you CAN conceivably be done with a grind in a day or two instead of weeks.

also.. i just realized that previous post brought up Cata and MoP as if to refute my point,.. where part of my point was specifically pointing out that Cata is when it started to go downhill. talk about moving goalposts.

[Dakara]

Much more done...like what?

It's just a toolbox fallacy, there is nothing to "do" in this expansion with flying. If it's old world content you already had it so?

Sometimes I'll do some BG's
Sometimes I'll do some more M+
Sometimes I'll work on an Alt
etc etc etc

I think you've totally missed the point. With flying, I can get my open world "Power progression grinds" done faster, leaving me more time for other activities such as I've listed above.

If you approach from the PoV that someone has unlimited time, then flying adds nothing. When you approach it from someone who only has X hours a day/week to play, it makes sense that reducing travel times allows them to accomplish more in those finite windows of time.

[Dhrizzle]

its not a moved goalpost. pathfinder exists because people want flight and its time gated to pad those metrics of daily logins. more optional rep grinds or rep grinds that allow you to grind extra on the weekend and still catch up to someone who grinded every day? do NOT pad those daily playtime metrics in the same way. they also do NOT delay people as much. since you CAN conceivably be done with a grind in a day or two instead of weeks.

So? At the start of this part of the discussion the criticism was just about padding time-played metrics which is something all rep grinds and RNG loot drops do. The fact you approve of some and disapprove of others does not make them fundamentally different.

also.. i just realized that previous post brought up Cata and MoP as if to refute my point,.. where part of my point was specifically pointing out that Cata is when it started to go downhill. talk about moving goalposts.

If you go back to the posts I was replying to there was a specific comparison to MoP and Cata...

[Witchblade77]

So? At the start of this part of the discussion the criticism was just about padding time-played metrics which is something all rep grinds and RNG loot drops do. The fact you approve of some and disapprove of others does not make them fundamentally different.



If you go back to the posts I was replying to there was a specific comparison to MoP and Cata...

god I'm going to regret replying to you, but

1. I specifically said i do not approve of TIME. GATES. as a method of padding metrics. the fact that you cannot see the distinction between a general grind and a time gated grind is a you problem.
2. you were replying to MY post, quoting ME talking about Cata. what someone else said elsewhere is irrelevant to you replying to MY post and supposedly calling ME out for ignoring Cata and MoP.. which i did NOT.

[Dimsum84]

I'm all for just finish all major storylines per zone once on your main and you unlock flying.
You see the quests, you see the zones, now you can fly.

but meh..gotta keep you in the game longer right? i dunno...i'm not a shareholder..just a broke ass dad with less time to play

[Dhrizzle]

god I'm going to regret replying to you, but

1. I specifically said i do not approve of TIME. GATES. as a method of padding metrics. the fact that you cannot see the distinction between a general grind and a time gated grind is a you problem.
2. you were replying to MY post, quoting ME talking about Cata. what someone else said elsewhere is irrelevant to you replying to MY post and supposedly calling ME out for ignoring Cata and MoP.. which i did NOT.

No you were replying to me, I was replying to Laqweeta who was complaining about the system padding time-played metrics and specifically compared to all expansions TBC to MoP.

And like I said, all expansions have ways of padding time metrics. The fact that you dislike TIME. GATES. but don't mind arbitrary instance locks, time consuming reputation grinds and RNG loot doesn't make them fundamentally different, they are still systems designed to get players to repeat content over a period of time to earn rewards.

[Witchblade77]

No you were replying to me, I was replying to Laqweeta who was complaining about the system padding time-played metrics and specifically compared to all expansions TBC to MoP.

And like I said, all expansions have ways of padding time metrics. The fact that you dislike TIME. GATES. but don't mind arbitrary instance locks, time consuming reputation grinds and RNG loot doesn't make them fundamentally different, they are still systems designed to get players to repeat content over a period of time to earn rewards.

and apples and steaks are both food, but that doesn't make them fundamentally the same either. time. gates. require that you do something daily or you hopelessly fall behind. a grind that you can do whenever that has a set number of hours but that set number of hours can be done at PLAYER DISCRETION? is a very different kind of grind. becasue it allows you to catch up. at your discretion. it doesn't arbitrarily keep you from something for a set amount of DAYS, as long as you are willing to put in the HOURS needed to grind it.

[zhero]

The hardcore no-lifed it in a record time anyway, so gating didn't stop them from zooming through it. The losers are the casuals who support this game, yet they get treated with repetitive boring chores every day leaving them no time to really enjoy the game. It makes absolutely no sense.

I quit several times and even when I reactivated, I played once, or twice max per week, no longer than 1 hour a day and couldn't stand looking at the same zone anymore.

Who thought of this anyway? What's wrong with simply just not giving flying to anyone until a certain time has passed rather than make people hate your own game. This is beyond ridiculous.

sounds like you hate the game and shouldn't play it, and flying won't change that.

[Temp1on2]

For everyone saying they want flying off the bat have you considered that it wouldn't actually solve your issue?

If they gave you flying straight out of the gate that would make the devs design the zones around flying (meaning you'd probably have flying mobs that can knock you off etc). Fine I hear you say, but then people would complain that they can't use their flying mounts...

Basically, the devs would make flying just as inconvenient as ground mounts are now.

So I think the problem isn't that people can/can't fly per se, but that ground travel is so laborious and inconvenient that people desire flying in the first place.