Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

Astromancer Darnarian
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=25133/ast...delviewer:10+0 2

Sunreaver Frosthand
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=68758/sun...delviewer:10+0 2

Teris Blightsunder
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=81946/ter...delviewer:10+0 2

we can see how Lanesh the Steelweaver has blue eyes in two different expa MoP and legion
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=69259/lan...delviewer:10+0
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=114887/la...delviewer:10+0

Sunreaver Assassin in dalaran and isle of thunder
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=68756/sun...delviewer:10+0 1
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=70045/sun...delviewer:10+0 1

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/1174787595542433792

The only thing that will ultimately settle this is the presence of blue eyes in Blood Elf character customization in 9.0.

On the other hand this evidence, as well as common sense, is pretty indicative of where this is likely going.

[FlubberPuddy]

The only thing that will ultimately settle this is the presence of blue eyes in Blood Elf character customization in 9.0.

On the other hand this evidence, as well as common sense, is pretty indicative of where this is likely going.

Not at all. As I've used in previous examples, what one race a player has no interest in playing gets doesn't do anything to stop the specific request that player is having.

Aka, doesn't matter what customizations Lightforged Draenei or Draenei get if I'm never going to play one or have no interest in one.

Same thing here, most people that want High Elves on Alliance won't suddenly stop asking for it just because extra customization comes to a Horde elf.

I think people like you and others want or hope the request "dies" once Blood Elves get blue eye customization.

But this request won't go away, because it has always been about getting a group of elves on Alliance that call themselves High Elves to be playable. As long as that remains true, the High Elf request will always exist.

Hopefully it actually helps once Blood Elves get Blue eyes cuz then when people keep asking for High Elves on Alliance maybe then Blizzard will question, "why the fuck do people keep asking for High Elves?" and realize it has nothing to do with Blood Elves.

[Strippling]

But this request won't go away, because it has always been about getting a group of elves on Alliance that call themselves High Elves to be playable. As long as that remains true, the High Elf request will always exist.

Then why are pro helfers asking for void elves to have high elf customizations? Double standards.

[Obelisk Kai]

Not at all. As I've used in previous examples, what one race a player has no interest in playing gets doesn't do anything to stop the specific request that player is having.

Aka, doesn't matter what customizations Lightforged Draenei or Draenei get if I'm never going to play one or have no interest in one.

Same thing here, most people that want High Elves on Alliance won't suddenly stop asking for it just because extra customization comes to a Horde elf.

I think people like you and others want or hope the request "dies" once Blood Elves get blue eye customization.

But this request won't go away, because it has always been about getting a group of elves on Alliance that call themselves High Elves to be playable. As long as that remains true, the High Elf request will always exist.

Hopefully it actually helps once Blood Elves get Blue eyes cuz then when people keep asking for High Elves on Alliance maybe then Blizzard will question, "why the fuck do people keep asking for High Elves?" and realize it has nothing to do with Blood Elves.

Except the people who want High Elf exiles within the Alliance are fixated on Blood Elves. From complaining about how they went Horde to the first place, to asking for Blizzard to lower the faction divide so that they can play a Blood Elf within the Alliance, to vehemently arguing against Blood Elves getting blue eyes, the pro High Elf community cannot escape the Blood Elves. Because this isn't about the race, which is why your Lightforged Draenei counterpoint is such a poor example. It is about the faction that race is on. The people who want to play this race want to play Blood Elves on the Alliance, because that is exactly what a High Elf exile is.

So to attempt to argue Blood Elves and the High Elven exiles have nothing to do with each other is simultaneously facetious and disingenuous because nobody seriously thinks of them in that way. They are one and the same race whose sole differentiation will be political alignment and that isn't enough to justify their addition. Blizzard knows fine well what the hardcore pro High Elf community wants. Blizzard also gave you Void Elves. In regards to your hope that the persistence of the request will cause Blizzard to rethink their stance after the likely addition of blue eyes to Blood Elves, that just desperation. I mean, I almost feel I should use spoiler tags but...it won't. It really won't. There isn't even a ghost of a chance that will sway them.

The High Elf exiles will not be added as a distinct option to the Alliance. That window is closed because Blizzard wants the faction divide to remain as they elaborated to us recently. Because they believe Blood Elves are High Elves (the supporting evidence there being they are correct). Because the Allied race cycle has almost certainly come to a close. And because they already tossed the pro High Elf community a bone with Void Elves and if the pro High Elf community rejects that because it's not a hundred percent what was wanted, I don't think that will vex the developers too much in lieu of all the other reasons.

I don't expect the request to go away should blue eyes be added to Blood Elves. Never did. But the request for High Elf exiles will look just a tiny bit more nonsensical after the addition of blue eyes, should the final sliver of physical differentiation the pro High Elf community has been clinging to be granted to the Blood Elves.

[Kithelle]

Page 700. How depressing.

I hope the irony isn't lost on you that you're one of the people who is here egging it on to over 700 pages

[Resident Rump]

I hope the irony isn't lost on you that you're one of the people who is here egging it on to over 700 pages

I wouldn't be surprised if he had 350 pages of that dedicated to his own posts.

BTW Obelisk Kai has done more to push the High Elf cause and keep it front and center than anyone. Maybe we should actually be thanking him?

[FlubberPuddy]

I hope the irony isn't lost on you that you're one of the people who is here egging it on to over 700 pages

It was lost on him actually. He was then trying to say something akin to, "yeah I'm 2nd, but you're (me) #1" not realizing the purpose of me pointing that out. Let's see if he'll get it now that a couple others are pointing it out too.

- - - Updated - - -

Except the people who want High Elf exiles within the Alliance are fixated on Blood Elves.

The detractors are the ones who came in fixating on Blood Elves, and unfortunately a lot of the pro-helfers took the bait.

At the end of the day though what I said still stands. Alliance players asking for a group of elves on the Alliance who call themselves High Elves to become playable doesn't go away just because of extra customization that comes to a Horde elf.

Not much else really needs to be said further than that.

[Frenchvince]

Astromancer Darnarian
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=25133/ast...delviewer:10+0 2

Sunreaver Frosthand
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=68758/sun...delviewer:10+0 2

Teris Blightsunder
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=81946/ter...delviewer:10+0 2

we can see how Lanesh the Steelweaver has blue eyes in two different expa MoP and legion
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=69259/lan...delviewer:10+0
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=114887/la...delviewer:10+0

Sunreaver Assassin in dalaran and isle of thunder
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=68756/sun...delviewer:10+0 1
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=70045/sun...delviewer:10+0 1

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/1174787595542433792

Is Blizzard doing a new NPC update?
Maybe next patch?

In the new dressing room, the majority of NPCs are modified,
we distinguish very clearly the difference between green eyes and blue eyes.
There are only high-elf blue eyes that bug in the new dressing room (see Lanesh).



Lanesh the Steelweaver is a unique / rare case or an error of blizzard not corrected (a bit like Arathor who took a while to be corrected), but it also exists in the alliance this kind of situation, Valeera is loyal towards our king for example and she will be a new Stormwind NPC at the next patch.


To remember :
The blood elves chose their "new way of life" and faction, the high elves did not want to follow them and they remained faithful to the alliance

Do not forget the identity of the factions is important!

[elbleuet]

Astromancer Darnarian
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=25133/ast...delviewer:10+0 2

Sunreaver Frosthand
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=68758/sun...delviewer:10+0 2

Teris Blightsunder
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=81946/ter...delviewer:10+0 2

we can see how Lanesh the Steelweaver has blue eyes in two different expa MoP and legion
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=69259/lan...delviewer:10+0
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=114887/la...delviewer:10+0

Sunreaver Assassin in dalaran and isle of thunder
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=68756/sun...delviewer:10+0 1
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=70045/sun...delviewer:10+0 1

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/1174787595542433792

Yeah exactly what I was saying. All bugs excepted for 2 or 3 ncps.

High elves will never be a thing for the Horde and that's a good thing imo. And after WoW, blood elves will likely left the Horde and rejoin the Alliance since they're only fighting for the Horde for gameplay reasons.

[Obelisk Kai]

I hope the irony isn't lost on you that you're one of the people who is here egging it on to over 700 pages

I wouldn't be surprised if he had 350 pages of that dedicated to his own posts.

BTW Obelisk Kai has done more to push the High Elf cause and keep it front and center than anyone. Maybe we should actually be thanking him?

It was lost on him actually. He was then trying to say something akin to, "yeah I'm 2nd, but you're (me) #1" not realizing the purpose of me pointing that out. Let's see if he'll get it now that a couple others are pointing it out too.

There are two schools of thought on this.

One that the constant presence of the debate will lead Blizzard to think that High Elves are popular and add them.

The other is that Blizzard is actually reading the debate and taken the feedback on board from both sides.

The first position is childish. It assumes Blizzard just equates numbers to popularity. That High Elves are not present on the Alliance after all these years, that Void Elves were created in their stead, and that lead developers have rejected High Elves on the Alliance for reasons that could have come from any anti High Elfer shows that 'bumping' threads does zero to promote the 'High Elf cause'. What matters is what is said.

Given that what the high elf cause is saying is 'we want to be a Horde race within the Alliance' I am not surprised at your desire that Blizzard merely pay attention to the fact that the debate is occurring, rather than what is being said in that debate.

The detractors are the ones who came in fixating on Blood Elves, and unfortunately a lot of the pro-helfers took the bait.

At the end of the day though what I said still stands. Alliance players asking for a group of elves on the Alliance who call themselves High Elves to become playable doesn't go away just because of extra customization that comes to a Horde elf.

Not much else really needs to be said further than that.

The addition of blue eyes to Blood Elves is far from confirmed. But is presumed to be more likely than not. The High Elf community has relied upon blue eyes as a physical differentiating factor for a few years now yet blue eyes for Blood Elves is possible. Should blue eyes for Blood Elves come to pass, the final, tiny piece of differentiating the two on a physical level will have been erased.

As such I have noted among some pro High Elfers a slight change in tone on this point. You are doing it here. Fyresing did it in an earlier post. Others on the official forums are doing it too, albeit subtly. It is the pre-emptive abandonment of blue eyes as a differentiating factor. No longer is it being held up as often as it once was, instead what is being focused on now is what you are focusing on here.

Alliance players asking for a group of elves on the Alliance

Without any physical feature to latch onto, no matter how small, the final redoubt is one of the differing ideologies. The political bent.

I have lost count of all the times I have insisted the sole meaningful difference between Blood Elves and the High Elven exiles are their politics, and that includes blue eyes which are just an eye colour at the end of the day. That this is the final argument possible is what I have said the real issue has always been, the faction the elves are on, is mildly gratifying as it confirms everything I have argued.

And as stated so often, alignment isn't enough. Retreating to this argument confirms no argument is left.

[scubi666stacy]

I wouldn't be surprised if he had 350 pages of that dedicated to his own posts.

BTW Obelisk Kai has done more to push the High Elf cause and keep it front and center than anyone. Maybe we should actually be thanking him?

Reminds me of Sisyphus. And the High Elf fans are the rock. And this is not really a compliment to these people.

Why don't you just accept the f***ing canon that Blood Elves are High Elves with a different name, that dissident representation is done by NPCs and be done with it?

Alliance has 2 Elven races, and both are more interesting than your Alliance High Elves. I would rather want Highborne customization for Night Elves. This is what has been progressing the Alliance, not some bygone relics who will die out eventually, or delude themselves to a Half Elf status. Though I would not mind the addition of Half Elves to the Alliance, as a customization option for Stormwind Humans.

I want Blizzard to progress the story, not regressing to something which should not even be a thing anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

(SNIP) Alliance players asking for a group of elves on the Alliance (SNIP)

Which is ridiculous because they already have 2 Elven groups. Should be enough, really. I am a fan of Elven races in pretty much all settings, but the introduction of more and more race variants is totally counterproductive to their representation as a special race.

[Frenchvince]

Which is ridiculous because they already have 2 Elven groups. Should be enough, really. I am a fan of Elven races in pretty much all settings, but the introduction of more and more race variants is totally counterproductive to their representation as a special race.

Blizzard now has 2 possibilities to make the high elves of the alliance playable with:

- high elf customization for void elves

Or

- a new playable race

[Obelisk Kai]

Blizzard now has 2 possibilities to make the high elves of the alliance playable with:

- high elf customization for void elves

Or

- a new playable race

A 'high elf' customization for Void Elves is still a Void Elf and any pro High Elfer who accepts that as a result reveals that it was about the aesthetic and not the lore, and proves the Anti High Elfers right.

As for option 2, that's done. We now have so many developer quotes saying the faction divide is important, we have developer quotes saying High Elves harm faction diversity, we have the end of the BFA Allied race cycle and the introduction of Void Elves in their stead...High Elves as their own thing isn't happening.

So I guess the choice is admit defeat on getting High Elves for the Alliance or admit it was all about the skin tones after all and campaign for eggshell skin colour on a Void Elf.

[Rhlor]

Is Blizzard doing a new NPC update?
Maybe next patch?

In the new dressing room, the majority of NPCs are modified,
we distinguish very clearly the difference between green eyes and blue eyes.
There are only high-elf blue eyes that bug in the new dressing room (see Lanesh).



Lanesh the Steelweaver is a unique / rare case or an error of blizzard not corrected (a bit like Arathor who took a while to be corrected), but it also exists in the alliance this kind of situation, Valeera is loyal towards our king for example and she will be a new Stormwind NPC at the next patch.


To remember :
The blood elves chose their "new way of life" and faction, the high elves did not want to follow them and they remained faithful to the alliance

Do not forget the identity of the factions is important!

Kay
@KayJayEme
·
19 sept.
@moorgard

I know you probably wont see this question, or know the answer (Because its still a mystery) but do you happen to know who "exactly" Lanesh the Steelweaver is, and why he has blue eyes?

Sincerely, a curious WoW nerd.
Steve Danuser
@moorgard
En respuesta a
@KayJayEme
I did see this, and I do know who he is. Would rather not delve into character backgrounds here, as someday there might be an opportunity to tell the tale in game. That's always more satisfying than an off-the-cuff tweet.
https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/1174787595542433792

[Obelisk Kai]

Which is ridiculous because they already have 2 Elven groups. Should be enough, really. I am a fan of Elven races in pretty much all settings, but the introduction of more and more race variants is totally counterproductive to their representation as a special race.

I agree and I was in fact content with the status quo of one elf race per faction, but at the moment people who like elves have four distinct options and so they are well catered for.

[elbleuet]

A 'high elf' customization for Void Elves is still a Void Elf and any pro High Elfer who accepts that as a result reveals that it was about the aesthetic and not the lore, and proves the Anti High Elfers right.

Are you new to wow ? Never heard of players roleplaying Stromgarde/Alterac/Lordaeron/Dalaran human with their - lorewise- Stormwind human ?

[Shakana]

@Doffen
I agree with you, elves in general are wanted. But blue eyed ones, are the most wanted ones. I think that is just a desire inside you to look to a blue eyed character of yours.

The diversity is better for me too.

[Frenchvince]

A 'high elf' customization for Void Elves is still a Void Elf and any pro High Elfer who accepts that as a result reveals that it was about the aesthetic and not the lore, and proves the Anti High Elfers right.

As for option 2, that's done. We now have so many developer quotes saying the faction divide is important, we have developer quotes saying High Elves harm faction diversity, we have the end of the BFA Allied race cycle and the introduction of Void Elves in their stead...High Elves as their own thing isn't happening.

So I guess the choice is admit defeat on getting High Elves for the Alliance or admit it was all about the skin tones after all and campaign for eggshell skin colour on a Void Elf.

Option 1 is as valid as the new wildhammer or dark / sand troll customization.

Option 2 will still be relevant as long as there are high elves in the alliance, their story is not over yet with the adventures of the sisters Windrunner, maybe at shadowlands.

[Obelisk Kai]

Are you new to wow ? Never heard of players roleplaying Stromgarde/Alterac/Lordaeron/Dalaran human with their - lorewise- Stormwind human ?

A Human who begins the game shows up in Northshire Abbey with a generic set of racials, allowing the player to fill out the backstory however they wish. The Human player has a lot more freedom in game to flesh out their own backstory as a result. In fact, one of the guards in Stormwind now comments that they wish dreamed of going back home to Lordaeron one day, but that Sylvanas's actions make that impossible, canonically proving that Stormwind is now a melting pot of humanity from all across the Eastern Kingdoms.

In contrast, the origin of a Void Elf is far more limited. A Void Elf who begins the game shows up in Tel'rogus, is informed they are a Void Elf, has an entire suite of Void Elf powers and has a racial that procs every few minutes in combat to remind them they are a Void Elf in case they had somehow forgotten. All Void Elves went through the transformation process.

Any Void Elf player who attempts to argue they are a High Elf who never went through the void elf transformation process can be explained away by saying the whispers have finally driven them mad. Anyone who wants to roleplay as an insane Void Elf is welcome to do so, but they are still Void Elves. The only leeway possible with the Void Elf story is that your Void Elf was originally a High Elven exile who chose to go through the transformation to become more powerful. But you cannot pretend your Void Elf is not a Void Elf, unless you are roleplaying a Void Elf who has gone cuckoo.

- - - Updated - - -

Option 1 is as valid as the new wildhammer or dark / sand troll customization.

Option 2 will still be relevant as long as there are high elves in the alliance, their story is not over yet with the adventures of the sisters Windrunner, maybe at shadowlands.

In regards to option 1, you can read my response to elbleuet. TLDR, some races have a lot more latitude for players to be able to roleplay as specific groups of that race. Void Elves, by their origin, are not one of them. You would be as well to argue you can play a Lightforged Draenei who never lightforged, or a Nightborne as a Night Elf who was never trapped within Suramar.

In regards to your second option, no. It's almost certainly not happening and it is certainly not relevant. The dominant windrunner sister is a Void Elf, not a High Elf and whatever stories they have in future won't be laying the groundwork for a high elf allied race, but developing the Void Elf storyline or being about Sylvanas.

Given that expanding existing player customizations is the focus for Shadowlands, the chances of a new allied race are virtually nil. After all, once the original core races are updated in 9..0, the expectation is that the art team will move on to the Allied races and expand the customizations of some of those groups.

They have even implied that while the system is not permanently tied to BFA, they are only going to use it where it makes sense in future. Even were they to add a new Allied race in Shadowlands, there are groups in the Shadowlands that people are already clamouring for who would clearly make more sense. Why give High Elves when Kyrians or Ventyr would be more popular after all.

[Frenchvince]

In regards to option 1, you can read my response to elbleuet. TLDR, some races have a lot more latitude for players to be able to roleplay as specific groups of that race. Void Elves, by their origin, are not one of them. You would be as well to argue you can play a Lightforged Draenei who never lightforged, or a Nightborne as a Night Elf who was never trapped within Suramar.

In regards to your second option, no. It's almost certainly not happening and it is certainly not relevant. The dominant windrunner sister is a Void Elf, not a High Elf and whatever stories they have in future won't be laying the groundwork for a high elf allied race, but developing the Void Elf storyline or being about Sylvanas.

Given that expanding existing player customizations is the focus for Shadowlands, the chances of a new allied race are virtually nil. After all, once the original core races are updated in 9..0, the expectation is that the art team will move on to the Allied races and expand the customizations of some of those groups.

They have even implied that while the system is not permanently tied to BFA, they are only going to use it where it makes sense in future. Even were they to add a new Allied race in Shadowlands, there are groups in the Shadowlands that people are already clamouring for who would clearly make more sense. Why give High Elves when Kyrians or Ventyr would be more popular after all.

Option 1 will definitely have more luck than option 2 at the moment, as it will align with the new developer choice for shadowlands. They will add new "races" in the personalization of basic races, and perhaps later allied races.

I do not see how it would pose a problem for the void elves.