So how do you think Ally and Horde will go back to hating each other?

[Saverem]

I was talking to my mom over Thanksgiving dinner and asked her what she thought of this and she told me that I was 34 and should be thinking about moving out and finding a girl instead.

Was a good thanksgiving.

[VladlTutushkin]

You don't have to add or do anything, all the material is there. All it takes is for the Alliance to wake up one day and go "Hey, weren't there some guys who helped the bad grey lady do these things? Oh right, it was the vast majority of the Horde!" The peace is among the most hamhanded bits of writing Blizzard has produced and is extremely easy to logically reverse.

Past that, just go back to the regional level. Contradictory territorial and resource interests, as well as cultures that should be greatly different don't vanish just because Anduin gave a speech. Have the Zandalari recall that their monarch got offed, their fleet got fried and that they were supposed to suck it up because of some conflict between people they neither know nor care about.

Well duh, night elfs supposed to suck up genocide and their lands being occupied (now at elast we have Darkshore). Zandalari can suck up the fleet and their useless, senile Llama King. And he was senile as fuck, he even admitted that (if only partially). Also Blizzard are in the conundrum when it comes to war - if Alliance continues the war they either should destroy them entirely or make Alliance strike peace again because the cant afford handing real losses to the “cool” faction, aka Horde. If they were willing to make Horde hurt then yes... otherwise it is peace for you.

[Maxilian]

The new warchief will start a war, well there's no warchief, so the Horde council will start a war, and then in the mid of it, they will shift the blame to only 1 member of the council, get it killed, and now everything is ok again

Note: I actually hope for Tyrande to be the one who start a new war, she have enough reasons to hate the horde, so she may start a big fight, i would really like for her to go on a Forsaken hunt, forcing the Horde to do something about it

[VladlTutushkin]

The new warchief will start a war, well there's no warchief, so the Horde council will start a war, and then in the mid of it, they will shift the blame to only 1 member of the council, get it killed, and now everything is ok again

Note: I actually hope for Tyrande to be the one who start a new war, she have enough reasons to hate the horde, so she may start a big fight, i would really like for her to go on a Forsaken hunt, forcing the Horde to do something about it

Well, if she will drag the Horde through the humiliation konga like Sylvanas did Alliance then it will be okay.

[vilememory]

Magatha Grimtotem paints herself and a bunch of her army brown, attack a bunch of Alliance towns and village. Alliance screams about how Baine is no better than Sylvanas, attack. Horde goes oh damn we knew this couldn't last murder murder death kill kill! But then it will be retconned to the Twilight Hammer and Baine didn't cry enough for those lost.

[tromage2]

Few leaders are in peace.

The Horde and Alliance races overall hate each other and some even are at war right now.

[Warcrafting]

The Faction War was a terrible concept from the moment Warcraft became an MMO. In a format where long-term world change beyond accretion is incredibly complicated and risky, exploring a war between the two main groups of players is bound to leave everyone unsatisfied by its conclusion. Mists of Pandaria saw about the most that could be safely gotten from the plotline, and provided the perfect opportunity to close that portion of the story. However, the botched mess that was BfA's plot left too many open threads, and they are impossible to resolve without diving back into this doomed theme.

[Mardux]

Don't forget that one time that the mean Alliance put the defeated orcs in camps (instead of slaughtering them all after 2 attempted genocides), truly horrible people for not letting the orcs go right after they warpathed across the lands murdering everything...

Yeah. The old horde should definitely have fought being put in concentration camps. Too bad they pretty much stopped after they were no longer controlled by the legion.

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As much as I agree that the Horde has had it pretty good in terms of how little they've lost - To say their lore is 'the best' or even 'relatively good' is laughable at best.

The one thing both sides SHOULD be agreeing on is that their stories have both sucked lately.

If the horde has it "pretty good" in terms of how little they lost, then the alliance is doing fan-fucking-tastic.

[Niwes]

If there is one thing that'll NEVER change in WoW, it's the feud between both factions (lorewise). Even Ion stated in Blizzcon that the faction vs faction dynamic is a staple of WoW and will never go away.


However, right now, the Horde and Alliance leadership are pretty much all sucking each other off in a big love orgy after they defeated Sylvannas. Thrall and Jaina are over there hold hands. Baine and Jaina are over there making out. First Arcanist Thalyssra and Jaina are over there scissoring. Anduin and the charred remains of Saurfang's corpse is over there 69in'.

So what now? There is too much love between the factions. How will they start hating each other again so we can get back to the status quo.

... and then some lame cheap shit happens (in the world of warcraft), followed by a laughable pseudo explanation, and we are back to pre bfa state and the cycle restarts (again). lame. cheap. simple. blizzard. thx for listening. sleep well.

[Feanoro]

If the horde has it "pretty good" in terms of how little they lost, then the alliance is doing fan-fucking-tastic.

Oh just peachy, thanks for asking!

One of our core races has been pushed to the brink of extinction by the Horde, a population center burned to ashes, our armies depleted to the point of handing weapons to farmers, our fleet smashed to shit in Naz'jatar, we've made new and exciting enemies in the Zandalari, our new allies are crippled militarily and badly hurt in food production (kinda bad when all your farmers are impaled in front of their children), and our remaining forces are split between sanity and insanely naive, self-congratulatory pacifism.

Meanwhile, the Horde lost one omnicidal lunatic and got away with all of the above with our leaders sobbing over the brains behind the Night Elven genocide.

[Varitok]

Horde will be aggressors, Alliance will be the good bois.

Same old same old. "Horde favoritisms hurr durr!".

Story =/= Gameplay

[Kallisto]

I’m torn between wanting to believe they’ve learned a lesson from all the criticism regarding Horde always being the aggressors - and then just going with it again anyways.

They’ve definitely planted “Alliance shoots first” seeds - but that hasn’t stopped them before... (Stormheim getting hand-waved as a skirmish)

Laugh how an attack on the warchief and then bringing up someone to a meeting that attempted a coup are considered nothing by blizzard.

If this happened in middle ages say a vassal King of an empire attacked another king. Then instead of the Emperor publicly condemning them and throwing them to the attacked King held said attacker as their closest advisor it would have been all out war and everyone would have known who was the instigator.

Let's not forget even being unwillingly linked to a damn coup against a monarch would have been considered instigating the war too.

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Why does it have to be so black and white.

Because blizzard has said since Vanilla if you're looking for a deep story you're in the wrong place. They go intentionally with 80s Saturday morning cartoons and kid comics as base because that's what they grew up with.

[Mestalis]

I don't, Blizz has lied to us before. I think that 10.0 is going to be the revamp everyone was suspecting for 9.0. "Cataclysm 2.0" as it were. I think there will still be a faction system, it may even be a two party faction system, but I don't think the Horde and Alliance as we know them now will ever go back to warring again for the 5th time.

[Feanoro]

Laugh how an attack on the warchief and then bringing up someone to a meeting that attempted a coup are considered nothing by blizzard.

If this happened in middle ages say a vassal King of an empire attacked another king. Then instead of the Emperor publicly condemning them and throwing them to the attacked King held said attacker as their closest advisor it would have been all out war and everyone would have known who was the instigator.

Let's not forget even being unwillingly linked to a damn coup against a monarch would have been considered instigating the war too.

So we have to repeat again, huh? The High King, however poorly written, is NOT an emperor. Metzen said the title is effectively Supreme Commander of the Alliance Militaries, and then only commands those forces that are explicitly assigned to the overall Alliance military. Those forces can be withdrawn at any time. Further, Genn is not simply some soldier under Prissypant's command, but the sovereign of an Alliance member state. He cannot simply be handed over.

Finally, this nonsense about your Emperor handing over a vassal to appease an enemy. Exactly how long do you think the Emperor would have an empire if the states and provinces that comprised it realize he would throw them under the bus like that?

This doesn't even take into account all the crap Sylvie merrily walked away from with no consequences. No one, not even the rest of the Horde, had any reason whatsoever to believe she was an innocent little lamb in Stormheim. Oh, officially searching for the Aegis? Oh yes, let's let the proven psycho have Titanic artifacts. I'm sure she won't use it for mass murder!

[Kallisto]

So we have to repeat again, huh? The High King, however poorly written, is NOT an emperor. Metzen said the title is effectively Supreme Commander of the Alliance Militaries, and then only commands those forces that are explicitly assigned to the overall Alliance military. Those forces can be withdrawn at any time. Further, Genn is not simply some soldier under Prissypant's command, but the sovereign of an Alliance member state. He cannot simply be handed over.

Finally, this nonsense about your Emperor handing over a vassal to appease an enemy. Exactly how long do you think the Emperor would have an empire if the states and provinces that comprised it realize he would throw them under the bus like that?

This doesn't even take into account all the crap Sylvie merrily walked away from with no consequences. No one, not even the rest of the Horde, had any reason whatsoever to believe she was an innocent little lamb in Stormheim. Oh, officially searching for the Aegis? Oh yes, let's let the proven psycho have Titanic artifacts. I'm sure she won't use it for mass murder!

It may not be written as Emperor but the way the alliance has been acting it is clearly the Imperium of Stormwind in all but name until Tyrande decided to say no to Anduin.

As for handing over a Vassal to appease someone you're supposed to be at peace at (signed post SoO) well yes, If you care about peace you will make sure peace last no matter what. The horde was not the enemy at the time and one of your underlings tried to start it during an End of the world invasion or show yourself the be the aggressor.

What is it?

AlsoSylvanas actions and intent (BTW her intent was she does her thing while the player has control of the entire forsaken at their hand to get the Aegis) is irrelevant. Genn didn't know shit and only wanted to sate his hate boner. Also anything that happened in the previous war before peace was signed is not a valid excuse for war.

[Feanoro]

As for handing over a Vassal to appease someone you're supposed to be at peace at (signed post SoO) well yes, If you care about peace you will make sure peace last no matter what. The horde was not the enemy at the time and one of your underlings tried to start it during an End of the world invasion or show yourself the be the aggressor.

So instead of discussing, you're simply going to repeat a "Horde is always innocent" talking point. OK then.

AlsoSylvanas actions and intent (BTW her intent was she does her thing while the player has control of the entire forsaken at their hand to get the Aegis) is irrelevant. Genn didn't know shit and only wanted to sate his hate boner. Also anything that happened in the previous war before peace was signed is not a valid excuse for war.

I see you didn't bother to read in favor of another talking point repetition, because I didn't say one blessed word about Genn's knowledge.

Also, so nice how Hordies try valiantly to sweep "homeland invaded with no provocation, people mass murdered, homeland blighted, son murdered" under the rug as Genn having some irrational "hate boner". Even one of those would motivate most normal people to seek justice. It's also one hell of a double standard that the Alliance is supposed to simply swallow anything the Horde dishes out without any restitution, reparation, or hell, even admission of guilt and remorse, while somehow at the same time any Alliance reprisal or aggression justifies Horde attempting to exterminate everyone, man, woman, and child. It's beyond absurd writing.

If you're interested in discussing, great. If not, feel free to simply continue chanting the Horde's PR releases.

[Makorus]

The Faction War was a terrible concept from the moment Warcraft became an MMO. In a format where long-term world change beyond accretion is incredibly complicated and risky, exploring a war between the two main groups of players is bound to leave everyone unsatisfied by its conclusion. Mists of Pandaria saw about the most that could be safely gotten from the plotline, and provided the perfect opportunity to close that portion of the story. However, the botched mess that was BfA's plot left too many open threads, and they are impossible to resolve without diving back into this doomed theme.

People want lasting changes from storylines, but only if they benefit from it. Whats new?

[Feanoro]

People want lasting changes from storylines, but only if they benefit from it. Whats new?

I'd settle for them stopping to use the same punching bags every time. Spread the misery a bit.

[Life-Binder]

definitely either Alleria or Tyrande

maybe Yrel

[Aeula]

Well first of all there'll be an island in the Shadowlands that we'll fight over.

Then Warchief Baine will step down (as if Blizzard would have the mercy to kill him) because reasons, announcing Gallywix as his successor.

Then Geblin will attack Gallywix in the expansion after that.

Then Gallywix will burn down Ironforge.

Then Eitrigg will mumble something about honor, get arrested by Gallywix, get freed by Gallywix loyalists while Anduin and Baine siege orgrimmar to 'save' the Horde and Dethrone Gallywix.