1. #521
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    They gambled with Rogue One and Solo, neither of which they were particularly happy with financially. Of course they might be playing it a bit safe.

    They also never had any intentions to go EU levels of insane, hence doing a soft refresh when they bought the IP.

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  2. #522
    Be me, see people complaining about this episode before watching it myself, say to myself "Haa, I bet there is a woman in this one." Damn always being right is a tough gig.

  3. #523
    Meh, I really liked this episode. It was pretty classic western.
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  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    Be me, see people complaining about this episode before watching it myself, say to myself "Haa, I bet there is a woman in this one." Damn always being right is a tough gig.

    You must be one of those people who missed the woman in episodes 1 and 3.

  5. #525
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    “They already did the whole cutting off a limb with a lightsaber in ANH, why did Lucas continue to do it in every movie?” Because that’s how Star Wars works...
    But that's a one-note thing. "Guy gets arm cut off." When you're swinging laser swords around, people are going to get their limbs cut off.

    The "you think they shot this one guy you care about because all you heard was a gunshot after seeing them in danger but it turns out the person that you thought was going to be shot because of the framing is fine and the person that was going to shoot them was actually the one that got shot" is a bit more... specific, and a cheap way of creating temporary suspense. It's entirely an artifice of framing.

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Seriously? Yes, if you take out the Star Wars stuff, it stops being Star Wars...
    But the only thing that was Star Wars about this episode's main conflict was the AT-ST. The humans in their little village were generic, and the raider aliens that attacked them were generic.

    To go back to the Jawa episode... The Jawas, their sandcrawler, and how they operate and what they do? That's all Star Wars.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    And they will pay the price for it. Played it safe, and it's a huge loss.
    The Last Jedi was the exact opposite of playing it safe. And a lot of people got really butthurt over it because it wasn't the movie they had written in their heads.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
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  6. #526
    People need to calibrate their expectations a bit for this show. It's not that deep, and it's hella short. Like most blockbuster movies it's more about the enormous budgets, visuals, music etc than it is about telling a meaningful story.

    On topic of the last episode I noticed that they mentioned the little villager girl's name a few times. She might be important again at some point. Just something I noticed.

  7. #527
    Scarab Lord Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    for people complaining about how quickly he changed his mind about fighting the AT-ST:

    He thought that at first it was simply him against those raiders, he had no intention of having the villagers fight with him, one man against a raid party and an AT-ST, no chance in hell, even with the rebel chick helping him.

    Then the villager shouts, "we have over 20 people here" does he get the idea that maybe these villagers are willing to die to defend themselves. It shows they aren't expecting him to do all the work like he usually gets paid to do.

    Not to mention, the plight of these villagers could very well give him flashbacks to his people's murder when he was a child, would someone who lived through that and has the means to never have it happen again to himself let people suffer as he had? Maybe if he was a heartless asshole, but we've seen enough of him to know he has empathy.

    He definitely didn't do it on a whim, they did convince him that they were willing to defend themselves if they were taught how.

    What's really interesting is the villager with her daughter, she's had prior training, and nothing comes of it; I really wish they at least gave an explanation on that tidbit. Maybe her dead husband was a soldier, or even more, a lost Clone Trooper like they showed in TCW?
    Last edited by Lothaeryn; 2019-12-01 at 12:00 AM.
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  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    But that's a one-note thing. "Guy gets arm cut off." When you're swinging laser swords around, people are going to get their limbs cut off.

    The "you think they shot this one guy you care about because all you heard was a gunshot after seeing them in danger but it turns out the person that you thought was going to be shot because of the framing is fine and the person that was going to shoot them was actually the one that got shot" is a bit more... specific, and a cheap way of creating temporary suspense. It's entirely an artifice of framing.



    But the only thing that was Star Wars about this episode's main conflict was the AT-ST. The humans in their little village were generic, and the raider aliens that attacked them were generic.

    To go back to the Jawa episode... The Jawas, their sandcrawler, and how they operate and what they do? That's all Star Wars.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The Last Jedi was the exact opposite of playing it safe. And a lot of people got really butthurt over it because it wasn't the movie they had written in their heads.
    So that is twice now someone was going to shoot lil'yoda and someone else got shot instead. It could be empty and meaningless... the show is not high art so probably, or it could be a deliberate echo with an upcoming payoff. Either way, I didn't mind it.

    As to the notion that this isn't Star Wars enough... I completely disagree. A) does something have to have an obvious reference to make it fit for Star Wars? B) the Stork Droid and cart Droid or whatever you want to call them were cute and perfectly fit the setting. That it was too "generic" is a weird complaint to me given how bland the sci-fi in Star Wars is.

  9. #529
    I found this to be the weakest episode so far. The best parts were all the cute baby Yoga scenes, the actual plot was nothing special to get into.

  10. #530
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    So that is twice now someone was going to shoot lil'yoda and someone else got shot instead. It could be empty and meaningless... the show is not high art so probably, or it could be a deliberate echo with an upcoming payoff. Either way, I didn't mind it.
    Hopefully there is some sort of payoff. The first time it was done, it was a character beat for Mando. The second time it's just a "Oh noez B.Y got shot! Just kidding, it was this other guy instead!"

    As to the notion that this isn't Star Wars enough... I completely disagree. A) does something have to have an obvious reference to make it fit for Star Wars? B) the Stork Droid and cart Droid or whatever you want to call them were cute and perfectly fit the setting. That it was too "generic" is a weird complaint to me given how bland the sci-fi in Star Wars is.
    The plot was generic and its trappings were generic. Those two droids in the background were just that- background. The plot was by-the-numbers. The details were largely by the numbers as well. Generic peaceful village. Generic raiders. Generic training sequence. Generic payoff.

    An episode of a TV show, if you don't want it to be utterly filler, should innovate on the world its in by adding to the universe or teaching you more about the characters. What did we learn about the Star Wars Universe? What did we learn about the characters? Not much. The only things we "learned" about the universe in this episode regard Cara Dune, and that was relegated to the beginning of the show. It would have been great if she and Mando had spent more time talking about specifics of what she did or who she was, because that builds both her character and the world they're in. But they didn't. What did we learn about the villagers? They're good-guy humans that farm shrimp. That's it. What did we learn about the raiders? Nothing, except that they have tanks of bubbling stuff in huts and have acquired an AT-ST. Hell, going into where they got that would have been a great place for the story to go. How do these raiders fit into the remnants of the empire? Are they working for them? What do the raiders want? And what did we learn about the characters? Nothing. Mando was Mando; same tough guy with a good heart. His character isn't really pushed or tested. We learn about why he doesn't take his helmet off (something we already knew,) and that's pretty much it.

    This episode came off to me as more of a "story beat" for the overall arc of the story, explaining why Mando can't just leave the kid somewhere. But the whole context around that is pretty generic.

    And like I said, you can have generic plot, or generic trappings, but you really shouldn't have both. Maybe they could have been a village of twi'leks. Then everything we learn about them is, by extension, something we learn about twi'leks. Maybe the raiders are four-armed alien space raptors. At least that makes for cool action scenes. Or maybe all that world stuff stays the same, but Mando and Cara get into some explication about who they are or their thoughts about the galaxy or the ultimate plans for B.Y or something.

    In a show depicting a vast, alien galaxy, I want to see or learn something new and innovative as often as possible. Especially in a limited series. You've got a whole galaxy of almost limitless potential. No reason the ideas shouldn't match up to that.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2019-12-01 at 02:52 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
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  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    Be me, see people complaining about this episode before watching it myself, say to myself "Haa, I bet there is a woman in this one." Damn always being right is a tough gig.
    Sure that was the problem. Thats like saying "I bet there are trees in this one". You know that half of all people are women, right?

    That episode was rushed and we have seen this exact plot like 300 times already. Also it felt like a stargate episode, 30 minute adventure without bringing something to the overall plot.

  12. #532
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Sure that was the problem. Thats like saying "I bet there are trees in this one". You know that half of all people are women, right?

    That episode was rushed and we have seen this exact plot like 300 times already. Also it felt like a stargate episode, 30 minute adventure without bringing something to the overall plot.
    To that effect, Cara Dune was probably the most interesting part of the episode.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by 7empest View Post
    Same as most folks I am entertained, but it feels very "safe mode" and with an IP as rich and, literally rich.. >they have all the money in the world to fuel this IP<, it feels very lackluster.

    Everything feels like "I've seen this all before elsewhere" but now it's about a tin man, his wrestler sidekick, a merchandise pushing yodle, and neat credit concept art.
    This is Disney. How can you make a TV show about a hired killer/bounty hunter without 'playing it safe'?

    I for one was very sceptical about this but I thought the dynamic of baby Yoda appealing to the Mandalorian's honourable side was a fantastic and very unexpected way to go with the series so far. I was definitely expecting some sort of 'redeemed hero' bull, but this is far better. Don't forget, whilst this dude is helping a young kid, he is also literally incinerating Jawa's for just messing with his stuff and not even shooting at him. It is still dark, but they have done a great job IMO.

  14. #534
    The Patient Ruunicus's Avatar
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    WOW! I'm surprised the Mandalorian is being picked apart (on here) as much as it is.

    I think it's great. It has the campy feel of the original trilogy but on a much smaller scale. It's also not too heavy and it has a basic predictability to it but it's done in a pleasant way. It allows for a younger crowd to enjoy it and I'm okay with that. This is a fun series and I personally feel this series will pave the way for a slew of other smaller Star Wars episodic stories of similar stature.

    It's already a huge success and it will allow them to "TV quality" some great stories in the future (a Sith story maybe?!).

    This formula has been long overdue IMO.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Hopefully there is some sort of payoff. The first time it was done, it was a character beat for Mando. The second time it's just a "Oh noez B.Y got shot! Just kidding, it was this other guy instead!"



    The plot was generic and its trappings were generic. Those two droids in the background were just that- background. The plot was by-the-numbers. The details were largely by the numbers as well. Generic peaceful village. Generic raiders. Generic training sequence. Generic payoff.

    An episode of a TV show, if you don't want it to be utterly filler, should innovate on the world its in by adding to the universe or teaching you more about the characters. What did we learn about the Star Wars Universe? What did we learn about the characters? Not much. The only things we "learned" about the universe in this episode regard Cara Dune, and that was relegated to the beginning of the show. It would have been great if she and Mando had spent more time talking about specifics of what she did or who she was, because that builds both her character and the world they're in. But they didn't. What did we learn about the villagers? They're good-guy humans that farm shrimp. That's it. What did we learn about the raiders? Nothing, except that they have tanks of bubbling stuff in huts and have acquired an AT-ST. Hell, going into where they got that would have been a great place for the story to go. How do these raiders fit into the remnants of the empire? Are they working for them? What do the raiders want? And what did we learn about the characters? Nothing. Mando was Mando; same tough guy with a good heart. His character isn't really pushed or tested. We learn about why he doesn't take his helmet off (something we already knew,) and that's pretty much it.

    This episode came off to me as more of a "story beat" for the overall arc of the story, explaining why Mando can't just leave the kid somewhere. But the whole context around that is pretty generic.

    And like I said, you can have generic plot, or generic trappings, but you really shouldn't have both. Maybe they could have been a village of twi'leks. Then everything we learn about them is, by extension, something we learn about twi'leks. Maybe the raiders are four-armed alien space raptors. At least that makes for cool action scenes. Or maybe all that world stuff stays the same, but Mando and Cara get into some explication about who they are or their thoughts about the galaxy or the ultimate plans for B.Y or something.

    In a show depicting a vast, alien galaxy, I want to see or learn something new and innovative as often as possible. Especially in a limited series. You've got a whole galaxy of almost limitless potential. No reason the ideas shouldn't match up to that.
    Star Wars is generic, Disney is only going to bet on the most bland story and setting they can get away with. Just enough to make it feel like Star Wars, too interesting and you get another TLJ disaster. To me, what the show was going to be was clear from the first episode, maybe the trailer. This episode continued in that same vein, just slowed down a bit and dealt more with the characters, such as they are. I'm probably wrong but I could swear the titular character has more lines in this episode than every other one combined. Is it a deep, new, original character? Of flipping course not. The episode added Cara, showed us a few new emotions for the Mandalorian, and also showed that the problem he's picked up can't be run from. What will his next plan be? The village is simple because they don't want to distract the audience. I mean, the Mandalorian culture as presented is pretty damned simple, wouldn't you say? Apparently they are all never-nude warriors who live in a dank hovel and have a shallow slogan. Almost as shallow as, say, Jedi as presented in the original Star Wars.

    You won't get the kind of Star Wars you want at 15 million an episode, we won't get that again until the franchise tanks and the creatives can do their work out of sight of the executives.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruunicus View Post
    WOW! I'm surprised the Mandalorian is being picked apart (on here) as much as it is.

    I think it's great. It has the campy feel of the original trilogy but on a much smaller scale. It's also not too heavy and it has a basic predictability to it but it's done in a pleasant way. It allows for a younger crowd to enjoy it and I'm okay with that. This is a fun series and I personally feel this series will pave the way for a slew of other smaller Star Wars episodic stories of similar stature.

    It's already a huge success and it will allow them to "TV quality" some great stories in the future (a Sith story maybe?!).

    This formula has been long overdue IMO.
    It's a fun show, people just have unrealistic expectations.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Sure that was the problem. Thats like saying "I bet there are trees in this one". You know that half of all people are women, right?

    That episode was rushed and we have seen this exact plot like 300 times already. Also it felt like a stargate episode, 30 minute adventure without bringing something to the overall plot.
    The same people having a complaint about things that only have one common thread is a pattern.

    They think insistence on other reasons masks their nature.

  17. #537
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Star Wars is generic, Disney is only going to bet on the most bland story and setting they can get away with. Just enough to make it feel like Star Wars, too interesting and you get another TLJ disaster.
    TLJ earned a billion dollars; I wouldn't really call it a "disaster."

    I'd say Solo is why you don't play it "safe and inoffensive." The only Star Wars movie to ever be a financial disappointment, and it played it about as safe as you could get. Well known Star Wars character, hashing out an event we'd already heard of with a foregone conclusion. And nobody cared.

    To me, what the show was going to be was clear from the first episode, maybe the trailer. This episode continued in that same vein, just slowed down a bit and dealt more with the characters,
    But it didn't. We didn't learn anything new about them beyond the few cursory lines about Cara.

    such as they are. I'm probably wrong but I could swear the titular character has more lines in this episode than every other one combined. Is it a deep, new, original character? Of flipping course not. The episode added Cara, showed us a few new emotions for the Mandalorian, and also showed that the problem he's picked up can't be run from. What will his next plan be? The village is simple because they don't want to distract the audience. I mean, the Mandalorian culture as presented is pretty damned simple, wouldn't you say? Apparently they are all never-nude warriors who live in a dank hovel and have a shallow slogan. Almost as shallow as, say, Jedi as presented in the original Star Wars.

    You won't get the kind of Star Wars you want at 15 million an episode, we won't get that again until the franchise tanks and the creatives can do their work out of sight of the executives.
    I just want the episodes to mean more insofar as they pertain to the story. They don't need to be something that makes you rethink the star wars universe. They should just keep showing cool parts of it.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
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  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    And they will pay the price for it. Played it safe, and it's a huge loss.


    It's been 2 years and Star Wars fans are still butthurt over the last time the Dreaded Disney let a director try to do something different with the franchise and its characters. Seems to me like your bold proclamations about the Dreaded Disney missing an opportunity with this show are completely divorced from the reality of how fandoms work.

    Fans don't want new shit. They want the same comfort food they've always had. Case in point: the overwhelmingly positive reaction this pretty shallow show has received so far. It hasn't done anything new, and fans are eating it up. And let's not even get started on how many G1 and G1-inspired toy lines Hasbro has released since the 80s.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2019-12-01 at 08:16 AM.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    TLJ earned a billion dollars; I wouldn't really call it a "disaster."

    I'd say Solo is why you don't play it "safe and inoffensive." The only Star Wars movie to ever be a financial disappointment, and it played it about as safe as you could get. Well known Star Wars character, hashing out an event we'd already heard of with a foregone conclusion. And nobody cared.
    TLJ earned well off the strength of the brand and goodwill generated by Force Awakens; love it or hate it, it damaged the franchise (personally I'm a "it was bloated but okay"). Earning a billion dollars is nice, but Disney spent a lot of money acquiring Star Wars, and then invested even more into it; after the fraction of that billion that falls into their pockets, they have maybe crawled into the black. Disney was betting that this new trilogy would reignite the franchise and raise it to new heights, not send it running from the silver screen. TLJ absolutely damaged the brand; they've distanced themselves from the film for a reason. As for Solo, it was a weak concept but it suffered as much from TLJ's mixed response as it did from that. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it was a vibroblade into their heart, maybe just a lost hand and a shocking discovery about their paternity scale disaster

    The rest of your post is kind of agree to disagree stuff, they did show a cool part of the Star Wars universe.
    Last edited by Zaktar; 2019-12-01 at 08:25 AM. Reason: dumb references

  20. #540
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    People need to calibrate their expectations a bit for this show. It's not that deep, and it's hella short. Like most blockbuster movies it's more about the enormous budgets, visuals, music etc than it is about telling a meaningful story.

    On topic of the last episode I noticed that they mentioned the little villager girl's name a few times. She might be important again at some point. Just something I noticed.
    SW usually doesn't name people for no reason. Also this show is ran by lore nerds. Theres easter eggs, callbacks, and painstaking attention to detail everywhere. They even canonized the ice cream maker from ESB.

    I like the episode because I like any bit of worldbuilding they throw at me. I'll still call the episode filler for the casual viewer who isn't as invested, who might not even understand the timeline and just want to see some pew-pew and familiar motifs.

    I don't know how anyone can hate on Baby Yoda, Mando and Cara interactions, or the set design even if the episode can be found on TvTropes (as if SW was ever risky or most stories arent full of tropes). Its not the trope, its how well you present it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post


    It's been 2 years and Star Wars fans are still butthurt over the last time the Dreaded Disney let a director try to do something different with the franchise and its characters. Seems to me like your bold proclamations about the Dreaded Disney missing an opportunity with this show are completely divorced from the reality of how fandoms work.

    Fans don't want new shit. They want the same comfort food they've always had. Case in point: the overwhelmingly positive reaction this pretty shallow show has received so far. It hasn't done anything new, and fans are eating it up. And let's not even get started on how many G1 and G1-inspired toy lines Hasbro has released since the 80s.
    The Obi series is going to be basic AF isn't it...

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