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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorthonion1 View Post
    Just theoretical as I probably won't play Shadowlands.

    I am levelling a frost mage and I enjoy the feeling I am 'frost'. Personally I don't like the idea of getting fireball since I like this feeling of specialisation. I DO think classes can be a tad more complex, just because a) they are too simple (though not that simple as people seem to think) and b) it gets boring having the same spells all the time, I miss getting new spells in expansions. That said, I like the idea of shattering throw for warriors (I used to play/play a warrior a lot), it doesn't 'feel' like it should be a spec specific ability and it's cool and adds depth, complexity and possible counterplay (PvP perspective).

    I don't like the whole covenant system as usual there has to be some grindy new feature to boost playtime, it's artifical complexity just like azerite traits.

    I think each spec getting maybe 2 or 3 new talents, as well as maybe ONE or TWO spells made classwide will be fun, but I don't want spec homogenization, I like spec identity.

    You are a Cata baby aren’t you? If so then get gone.

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    It doesn't take more work. It might make balancing more difficult but it is incomparably smaller task.
    Not really: going back from having 36 established class to something different always takes dev-time. Also saying just because class matters more, this takes less dev time is mildy say stupid, harshly said insane. Because if this really would take so much dev time, then why did they do it in the first place. Nah, either way it still takes a lot of people for it in both cases. Just because a few spells now are shared will not make it far different. Especially since i don't think that blizzard will either remove any spell from any spec at all.

    So in the end: "return to class" will not save blizzard any ressources at all. Because in the end as far as i see it is that blizzard will simply add some spells to classes, remove nothing and make it simply a bit better. Specs will stay, spec specific spells as we have it now will probably stay too; except for a few classes that might or might not get an overwork (i look at you, enhancement shaman, holy paladin and shadow priest). But for the rest i doubt that many things will change. Just that class identity will finally return.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    The old talent trees didn't have a single meaningful choice in them. Not one. "Do i want .1% more crit or .1% more haste, of which i have to chose one because i can't advance this talent tree without taking stupid filler talents?" is not a meaningful choice. "Do i want my main attack to lose it's physical damage component, but gain 20 yard increased range, or do i want an additional summoned pet, or do i want my regular pet to trigger more effects on the target?" is a meaningful choice.
    Anyone that still believes that the old talent trees genuinely offered (meaningful) choice at this stage isn't going to be convinced otherwise. They believe what they want to believe.

    It's the same argument as replacing some class abilities, what's the point in having <spell x> if you never press it lol (disclaimer: this doesn't apply to all removed abilities I think some do genuinely add 'flavour' but this doesn't apply to the vast majority of removed spells that just set idle or weren't even placed on action bars).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    So in the end: "return to class" will not save blizzard any ressources at all. Because in the end as far as i see it is that blizzard will simply add some spells to classes, remove nothing and make it simply a bit better. Specs will stay, spec specific spells as we have it now will probably stay too; except for a few classes that might or might not get an overwork (i look at you, enhancement shaman, holy paladin and shadow priest). But for the rest i doubt that many things will change. Just that class identity will finally return.
    In all honestly I can't make out what this means.

    in order to move away from spec identity towards class identity this will probably mean some homogenisation of the specs (abilities being shared). The only way to reinforce class identity is to lessen, or remove, what makes specs different. Doing this will make class design easier for devs and thus will take less resources.

    That said, I doubt this was a cynical decision taken to just 'save money'. I reckon Blizz heard that people found current class design was boring, and they have concluded that the reason for boring gameplay is that they've got so many classes (if we count specs as a class) we simply don't have the time to devote to make everyone engaging, unique, and fun. This is a way for them to get back a more focused look at gameplay and enjoyability.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Pandaria Warlock was the most busted dumb shit I’ve ever seen.

    I understand why players love it, but they should have never done it in the first place. MoP was when they went overboard and gave every single class the option to do just about every single thing in the game by using talents. Warlocks casting while moving was an abomination >.< you’re supposed to be the immobile ranged damage class.
    It would've been nice if Blizzard had ever gotten the turret part right ever since they stripped Warlocks of their mobility. But instead Blizzard dithered for two expansions and at no point between MoP and BFA did Warlocks see every spec function properly. Destro and Demo languished for years under asinine design choices, not the least of which being the infamous "We don't want you to play Demonology right now" quip from Ion. And to make matters worse after unfucking Destro and Demo for BFA they thrust upon Affliction this awful pooling until cooldowns playstyle.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    the infamous "We don't want you to play Demonology right now" quip from Ion.
    IMO, that is the most worst thing WoW devs have ever said. It's unforgivable.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfire989 View Post
    You are a Cata baby aren’t you? If so then get gone.
    Meh - I agree with the poster and I've been playing since the vanilla beta.

    Specs didn't used to exist so generic abilities were fine. Once they did? They felt like concrete real things. Some abilities (shaman totems for example) felt like they should never be removed from the class as they're so iconic. But having a crappy fireball on your bar as a frost mage? Yes I guess it's useful when you're locked down but thematically? Nope. Nope. Nope.

    And honestly? Bringing back abilities is... okay. But mainly bringing back vanilla abilities doesn't excite me. it just shouts they're catering to classic fans.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Not really: going back from having 36 established class to something different always takes dev-time. Also saying just because class matters more, this takes less dev time is mildy say stupid, harshly said insane. Because if this really would take so much dev time, then why did they do it in the first place. Nah, either way it still takes a lot of people for it in both cases. Just because a few spells now are shared will not make it far different. Especially since i don't think that blizzard will either remove any spell from any spec at all.

    So in the end: "return to class" will not save blizzard any ressources at all. Because in the end as far as i see it is that blizzard will simply add some spells to classes, remove nothing and make it simply a bit better. Specs will stay, spec specific spells as we have it now will probably stay too; except for a few classes that might or might not get an overwork (i look at you, enhancement shaman, holy paladin and shadow priest). But for the rest i doubt that many things will change. Just that class identity will finally return.
    To boost sales and give every class fancy stuff. They couldn't support the staff after lay offs.

    Overlap will sabe them time and resources.

  8. #548
    I'm not entirely convinced that playing a FROST mage with all frost spells, or a DEMONOLOGY warlock that summons a whole bunch of demons to do the fighting for her, or a MARKSMANSHIP hunter that lands an arrow in one of your vital points with absurdly pinpoint accuracy, isn't "playing class."

    Then again, I can't count the number of times I was insulted, told that my ever having been born in REAL LIFE (how eff'ed up is THAT?) was the biggest insult in WoW's history, kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked from all kinds of group content before even the second trash pull, for no reason at all, other than playing "this garbage spec" instead of "that 1337 spec" or having even a single utility point placed here instead of there... I sitll get nauseous thinking about that.

    Will adding certain 'base' abilities back into each class, that all specs of that class can use, solve the whole conundrum? I'm not convinced. But it would be nice if it helped.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    i love that they do something that people have been calling for, and the playerbase just moves the goalposts and calls them shit for it. good work.
    It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of thing...people were all like "Tired of fighting all of these super powers, I want to see a return to the faction war. Faction war is what Warcraft was all about!" then we return to the faction war "Boooo...faction wars sucks"

    Can never please everyone, and we live in a age where people will complain about anything.

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