About Activision Blizzard

[SirCowdog]

If its pointless anyway, why are you AGAIN, AS ALWAYS so against their release?

Oh yeah, you're afraid of what they might say

The only thing I can think of that sub numbers would be useful for is determining the overall size of the community. And that's about it. It wouldn't have anything to do with the health of the community, since that would really depend on how active each person or microcosm is within those subscriptions. And it would be misinterpreted and tied to a lot of false conclusions via correlation.

Now...this isn't to say I think the info Blizzard DOES release is any less misleading. I think they're shady as hell when they put their own personal spin on information for quarterly reports or investor calls. But that's pretty much every corporation.

All in all, I don't think it would really help or hurt anything for us to know the exact subscription numbers. It would just be one more data point in the mix. But that's also why Blizzard will never do it. They want as much control over the flow of information as possible. Why wouldn't they?

[liberaet]

https://classic.wowhead.com/news=297...by-john-staats

From the book:





Can there be any doubt left that the Blizzard we knew and loved, the one that once gave us quality games, for gamers by gamers, is well and truly dead? Its very soul consumed by Activision?

To answer the question: no, there cannot be any doubt, at least for me. I first had that feeling when Blizzard only became ActivisionBlizzard, and with time it only became more and more true.

[Gaidax]

Yesss Blizzard is a saint, Activision is the real evil, holding back our hero corporation.

These Activision monsters burned Darnassus to please the shareholders!

[MoanaLisa]

Because I've played both, and I can see the massive difference in gameplay and overall approach to the customers. Diablo 3 has been in maintenance mode for years, while POE has continuously updated, upgraded, and improved. Not only that, but Grinding Gears actually talks to its community and accepts feedback. In addition, POE is a consistent revenue generator, whereas Diablo 3 has not made ANY money after the purchase of RoS.

My guess is that at some past point Blizzard made a decision there would be a D4 and as such stopped doing much of anything with D3 except the development needed to make new seasons (some of which have been good). There doesn't seem to be any talk much that I've seen about a POE II so development updates are more frequent. That's fine. I'm a little bit startled at your enthusiasm for POE given their extensive & predatory MTX system. If D4 released as F2P with that same MTX system I'm guessing you would not be happy about that.

I've never much been able to get interested in POE because my first impressions of the combat engine were bad and I've seen nothing since that would change my mind about that.

[msdos]

I LIKE diablo 3, but that doesn't change the facts. POE is just a better game in almost every sense.

I'm not sure about better. Is a Fuji apple better than a Gala apple? I almost see them as the same game.

Also PoE has a problem Diablo doesn't have: the performance is god awful. You can't ignore that in PoE sometimes you can't even log in to the game, you get dropped like 5 times before you can open a map, you can get dropped from the server randomly because the boss encounters decide they want to drop you (Syndicate league) and playing with another person is like playing marco polo in a raging river rapid while it's dark outside (the lighting in PoE is purposely dim everywhere and the teleport system is dated).

Also like 90% of the items that drop in PoE are trash. You need external filters to be able to not waste your time picking up crap. You need the external website to trade with people, you can barely acquire anything without currency trading, the trading its self is meh, people have eye vomit housing that tanks your FPS immediately and you'll be lucky not to crash (golden glitter showers and retarded spectres flying around all over the screen). The 9999 limitless builds (after you pour 999 ex into them) are hindered by the action bar anyway.

I love both games. I love ARPGs period, but if I'm comparing D3 to PoE, the latter doesn't automatically win out because of the detail it has. It has massive performance issues that are a game breaking trade off.
Diablo is just less of a hassle to get basically the same experience (run around the screen blowing everything up instantly).

Hopefully PoE 2 does something with that engine.

[Relapses]

If its pointless anyway, why are you AGAIN, AS ALWAYS so against their release?

Oh yeah, you're afraid of what they might say

Whoa dude. Did you pick up some extra tin foil from your Thanksgiving leftovers? Your blind cynicism is precisely the reason the numbers don't matter to players. When we had the numbers, players only ever used them to correlate features they personally didn't like with attrition. But since we have never known the actual reasons people quit WoW, this is just guessing. An argument blaming player attrition on geothermal climate change and the rotation of the moon is just as relevant as some random dude claiming the LFR caused 3 million people to quit. And of course, players never really seem to consider the most important aspect of subscriber levels: New player generation. But why would they? It's much easier to pretend people only ever quit WoW because of a feature they personally disliked.

And for the record, I'm not "scared" of the numbers as much as I am thankful their absence means I don't have to field baseless arguments that are supported with incomplete, unknowable data.

[GreenJesus]

The thing is, I like both games. I especially enjoy Diablo 3 hardcore much more than POE hardcore. But that doesn't stop me from recognizing that POE is just a better game in almost every way.

The map system destroys the GR system, both in depth and scaling.
The builds in POE are nearly infinite, whereas D3 is basically which class set is best.
The appearance customization is probably on par, although POE has a number of paid cosmetics that outclass D3s, so that's a wash.
POE has player housing with actual functionality(stash, crafting, portals, etc).
POE's economy system is 349826734 lightyears ahead of D3.
POE's crafting is much more in-depth and interesting, as well as having better customization.
POE is free, which includes the entire game, only locking cosmetics and some utility(stash/storage/etc) behind paywalls.

The only thing that D3 really has is a slight advantage in smoothness of gameplay, which the POE expansion is addressing along with graphical updates.

I LIKE diablo 3, but that doesn't change the facts. POE is just a better game in almost every sense.

I'd say, If you want a good campaign experience then play Diablo. If you want end game and depth of systems with customization then play PoE. Although with PoE2, maybe the story/campaign will be better... I don't know. Something PoE was missing compared to Diablo is high budget cinematics and engaging story. Seemed like I just didn't care about it in PoE, but with Diablo I couldn't help but be interested.

Tldr:
Diablo > initial experience / first ~ 10 hours of gameplay
PoE > longevity and replayability

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The only thing I can think of that sub numbers would be useful for is determining the overall size of the community. And that's about it. It wouldn't have anything to do with the health of the community, since that would really depend on how active each person or microcosm is within those subscriptions. And it would be misinterpreted and tied to a lot of false conclusions via correlation.

Now...this isn't to say I think the info Blizzard DOES release is any less misleading. I think they're shady as hell when they put their own personal spin on information for quarterly reports or investor calls. But that's pretty much every corporation.

All in all, I don't think it would really help or hurt anything for us to know the exact subscription numbers. It would just be one more data point in the mix. But that's also why Blizzard will never do it. They want as much control over the flow of information as possible. Why wouldn't they?

I agree with your sentiment. Blizzard has plenty of reasons they might not want those numbers released. I think it would be interesting nonetheless. I'm sure they have internal numbers showing something that could correlate to health.

What I am confused about is why so many people are against it, as if that type of information would hurt them for some reason.

- - - Updated - - -

My guess is that at some past point Blizzard made a decision there would be a D4 and as such stopped doing much of anything with D3 except the development needed to make new seasons (some of which have been good). There doesn't seem to be any talk much that I've seen about a POE II so development updates are more frequent. That's fine. I'm a little bit startled at your enthusiasm for POE given their extensive & predatory MTX system. If D4 released as F2P with that same MTX system I'm guessing you would not be happy about that.

I've never much been able to get interested in POE because my first impressions of the combat engine were bad and I've seen nothing since that would change my mind about that.

I haven't played much POE since they added MTX, what is predatory about it?

- - - Updated - - -

Whoa dude. Did you pick up some extra tin foil from your Thanksgiving leftovers? Your blind cynicism is precisely the reason the numbers don't matter to players. When we had the numbers, players only ever used them to correlate features they personally didn't like with attrition. But since we have never known the actual reasons people quit WoW, this is just guessing. An argument blaming player attrition on geothermal climate change and the rotation of the moon is just as relevant as some random dude claiming the LFR caused 3 million people to quit. And of course, players never really seem to consider the most important aspect of subscriber levels: New player generation. But why would they? It's much easier to pretend people only ever quit WoW because of a feature they personally disliked.

And for the record, I'm not "scared" of the numbers as much as I am thankful their absence means I don't have to field baseless arguments that are supported with incomplete, unknowable data.

You can really just ignore those baseless arguments can't you?

I mean, we had a previous discussion about server numbers, and all you really did was doomsay and repeat "well there is NO reason you would ever need that!" which isn't a real argument against their release. Like, your annoyance at their release isn't a good reason either. Personally I wanted them specifically for server health in classic. It would be helpful for returning players to see server/faction populations. If they want to avoid massive numbers, or massive faction imbalance, that could be helpful.

In reference to LFR and raiding, we hear the "only 3% of raiders even see raids" or something along those lines. With numbers like those, you could make a good argument that BLizzard should spread their development time and money elsewhere (which they did) ... and likewise you could say that with Retail v Classic. I think the latter is why many people don't want those numbers, as the mere possibility that classic is preforming well bothers people.

[TwoMana]

I'm sure they have internal numbers showing something that could correlate to health.

They report MAU's every quarter.

[MoanaLisa]

I haven't played much POE since they added MTX, what is predatory about it?

Depends on how you feel about cosmetics and stash tabs.

There are a lot of different kinds of stash tabs:

- Premium Stash Tab Bundle (6 tabs) = $24.00
- Map Stash Tab = $15.00
- Fragment Stash Tab = $7.50 (other flavors of stash tabs at different prices).

- Eye in the Back Appearance for Armor = $17.50
- Sunprism Weapon Appearance = $18.00
- Void Emperor Armor Pack = $42.00 (saves $14 dollars over buying pieces separately).
- Transcendance Dagger Appearance = $36.00

- Hideouts (Housing) run from $19.00 to $37.00 depending on what kind of hideout you want. Decorations for hideout are more.

and on and on and on. There's literally hundreds more.

https://www.pathofexile.com/shop

If you don't care anything at all about cosmetics then it's fine although the stash tabs alone can run you the cost of a decent game and you'll need them if you have any intention of playing seriously. I get it the game is free and they need to monetize it but for those who bitch at Blizzard's prices these seem just as bad if not worse. Mileage will vary of course. I think they've gone overboard on the whole idea.

I'm not playing POE until they get a better combat engine though.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Obi-Wan:

He's [Blizzard] more machine now than man; twisted and evil.

[MoanaLisa]

I agree with your sentiment. Blizzard has plenty of reasons they might not want those numbers released. I think it would be interesting nonetheless. I'm sure they have internal numbers showing something that could correlate to health.

What I am confused about is why so many people are against it, as if that type of information would hurt them for some reason.

I'm not against it. I don't think they'll ever do it again and those that attack Blizzard for no longer doing it are proving exactly why they shouldn't. At one point subscriptions were a reasonable metric for financial health of the game. Now it seems they are not. Besides, ATVI now reports most of its quarterly results in a similar format for all studios.

And really, why should Blizzard report active subscriptions? No one else does it. As a metric it's meaningless as part of a larger revenue report. Especially when they report Blizzard's revenues consistent with their other products.

How does it hurt them? I don't know how much forum bashing of Blizzard means anything. Probably very little but subscriptions have been a bat over which 1) if they were bad you would get "Game is dying" or 2) if they were OK you would get "Blizzard is lying." Really, what's the fucking point in continuing on with that?

As an aside: I've seen comments stating that the MAU metric is a time-played metric. It isn't. Logging on to a game once in a month counts the same as logging on to a game twice a day every day for 30 days. It counts as 1 (one) for the month. If you play for 5 minutes once in a month you count as one. If you play 72 hours in a month, you still count as one. It has nothing to do with time played at all.

[SirCowdog]

My guess is that at some past point Blizzard made a decision there would be a D4 and as such stopped doing much of anything with D3 except the development needed to make new seasons (some of which have been good). There doesn't seem to be any talk much that I've seen about a POE II so development updates are more frequent. That's fine. I'm a little bit startled at your enthusiasm for POE given their extensive & predatory MTX system. If D4 released as F2P with that same MTX system I'm guessing you would not be happy about that.

I've never much been able to get interested in POE because my first impressions of the combat engine were bad and I've seen nothing since that would change my mind about that.

Most of my dislike for mtx is based on the business model which is generally exploitive. In wow you're already paying a box price and sub. In most mobile games heavy parts of the game or progression are locked behind a pay wall.

With POE you get the entire game for free. It's one of the least "predatory" models I've personally experienced. This would be different if they had even a slightly different model. But they've steadfastly avoided any P2W or stunting of progression for free players.

- - - Updated - - -

Also PoE has a problem Diablo doesn't have: the performance is god awful. .

All I can say is that I've never experienced those issues. Im not saying they don't exist, but this is the first Ive heard of them since early beta. And I regularly play with 2 friends in multiplayer.

[Onikaroshi]

Most of my dislike for mtx is based on the business model which is generally exploitive. In wow you're already paying a box price and sub. In most mobile games heavy parts of the game or progression are locked behind a pay wall.

With POE you get the entire game for free. It's one of the least "predatory" models I've personally experienced. This would be different if they had even a slightly different model. But they've steadfastly avoided any P2W or stunting of progression for free players.

Eh, I wouldn't say they avoided it, Stash tabs are pretty much required honestly. More stash tabs the more you can farm, the more you farm the quicker you can find good things to sell, the more currency you make.

In the end it's still a form of P2W, you're definitely buying an advantage.

[SirCowdog]

Eh, I wouldn't say they avoided it, Stash tabs are pretty much required honestly. More stash tabs the more you can farm, the more you farm the quicker you can find good things to sell, the more currency you make.

In the end it's still a form of P2W, you're definitely buying an advantage.

I guess? I don't know, I played a LONG time(years) without buying any stash tabs. Certainly it's convenient as hell once you do get them(I waited for a sale), but not exactly what I'd consider locking progression. I suppose it's a matter of perception.

I spent a lot of time in diablo 1 and 2 managing inventory, and before that Angband and Moria text dungeons doing the same. Inventory management is an aspect of the gameplay as much as anything else, in many regards.

But for the sake of honestly, I did look into POE a little bit more, since a lot of my arguments are based on personal experience and not necessarily a full look at the game as a whole. POE has used lootboxes in the past, although unless I'm mistaken they currently have cleaned that up quite a bit. And as Moanalisa pointed out, the is a LOT of potential to spend money on cosmetics. But again, I don't view this as necessarily predatory, mostly because they're not using any of the techniques you normally see in mobile games to promote purchases. The cash shop is there, but it's not in your face. Progress isn't locked behind it. There aren't special missions that psychologically manipulate you into believing they're necessary.

It's a fine line, I admit. But an important one, especially when compared to the standard methods you see in other games. To bring this back to the original topic:

It may seem like this is very similar to how WoW runs its cash shop. And in some ways it is. The difference is that WoW charges a box price every couple years on top of a monthly sub, and sells currency, and a cash shop, and character services such as race change or server xfer. If WoW was a F2P game my views would probably be different. But it's not.

[sam86]

Why did Blizzard thrive under Vivendi and not under Activision? Why are most, if not all, of Blizzard's screw ups blamed on Activision-Blizzard instead of Blizzard?

because Bobby Kodick hates video games with passion and see his position only as a way to increase his money and nothing else
Bobby Kotick is considered the guy who hates video games the most in entire video game industry, only reason he is 'better' than EA is because activision PR team shut him up since over 10 years after 3 disaster interviews, where we learn he wants to remove fun from video game industry, he consider gamers as brain dead idiots who will pay anything for sh8tty games, and not only he doesn't play video games, he even deny his grandson from playing them (at least when his grandson visits him)
Let's also add that he increased his own salary by 15% in same year he fired 10% of entire acti-blizz staff in also same year the company made record profit, and he was already ranked most overpayed ceo before that increase (overpayed as give least profit for his salary, not highest payed big difference, he is retard in his job, no surprise since he really hates video games)

They got here entirely on their own. They say they still scrap about half the stuff they start. They haven't published a new game in over three-and-a-half years

this isn't cod or ass creed, blizz isn't known to publish new games every 2 years, unless u count exp and stuff as 'new' games then yes
I still don't understand why they never released ghost when it was near or already complete :| oh well at least we got wow, while wow may be suffering now it still gave me the BEST time of my life hands down

[Onikaroshi]

I guess? I don't know, I played a LONG time(years) without buying any stash tabs. Certainly it's convenient as hell once you do get them(I waited for a sale), but not exactly what I'd consider locking progression. I suppose it's a matter of perception.

I spent a lot of time in diablo 1 and 2 managing inventory, and before that Angband and Moria text dungeons doing the same. Inventory management is an aspect of the gameplay as much as anything else, in many regards.

But for the sake of honestly, I did look into POE a little bit more, since a lot of my arguments are based on personal experience and not necessarily a full look at the game as a whole. POE has used lootboxes in the past, although unless I'm mistaken they currently have cleaned that up quite a bit. And as Moanalisa pointed out, the is a LOT of potential to spend money on cosmetics. But again, I don't view this as necessarily predatory, mostly because they're not using any of the techniques you normally see in mobile games to promote purchases. The cash shop is there, but it's not in your face. Progress isn't locked behind it. There aren't special missions that psychologically manipulate you into believing they're necessary.

It's a fine line, I admit. But an important one, especially when compared to the standard methods you see in other games. To bring this back to the original topic:

It may seem like this is very similar to how WoW runs its cash shop. And in some ways it is. The difference is that WoW charges a box price every couple years on top of a monthly sub, and sells currency, and a cash shop, and character services such as race change or server xfer. If WoW was a F2P game my views would probably be different. But it's not.

And I really have zero issue with cosmetic or convenience purchases, even in a box game /shrug. WoW would probably be looked down a lot more on at the corporate level if it wasn't making bank from the cash shop.

I do actually have a bit of issue with PoE's cash shop, it's over priced, I WANT things, but they're far too pricey.

Oh and if they got rid of loot boxes, that would have been extremely recent, the league before blight had them.

[sam86]

Yesss Blizzard is a saint, Activision is the real evil, holding back our hero corporation.

i can't say if blizz is still saint or not
but seriously i want to know how did Bobby Kodick get to be ceo of activision, the guy hates video games blindly, how did he get to be ceo of a video game industry? is the mega-cooperation system that soulless ?

[SirCowdog]

And I really have zero issue with cosmetic or convenience purchases, even in a box game /shrug. WoW would probably be looked down a lot more on at the corporate level if it wasn't making bank from the cash shop.

I do actually have a bit of issue with PoE's cash shop, it's over priced, I WANT things, but they're far too pricey.

Oh and if they got rid of loot boxes, that would have been extremely recent, the league before blight had them.

I mean...WoW did fairly well for itself before the advent of loot boxes and other MTX by simply being the best game in the genre. I don't view the cash shop as a necessary part of the game's success, financially or otherwise. It's just that right now it's the current industry trend to use them, moreso in the asia market where there isn't as much of a stigma associated with them and they're more of a standard thing.

Granted, WoW has had character services for quite awhile. And while I definitely view those services as massively overpriced(especially since they're all automated), they are adding utility to the game, whereas cosmetics do not. And you're absolutely correct that many of the POE cosmetics are also overpriced. $20 for a set of wings? LOL!

What I want to know is how Blizzard will handle MTX in diablo 4. They mentioned some MTX in the dev interview at Blizzcon, but it's clearly too early for details.

[A Chozo]

i can't say if blizz is still saint or not
but seriously i want to know how did Bobby Kodick get to be ceo of activision, the guy hates video games blindly, how did he get to be ceo of a video game industry? is the mega-cooperation system that soulless ?

Blizzard has never been a saint. They create games. They used to create games that became good after some updates, like Diablo 2, but nowadays it's... a tad worse and more expensive. But still, if people keep buying, then it's chewable.

Corporation is just a machine, and the Bob knows how to run that one and make the gold happen.