[UK] General Election 2019

[Dhrizzle]

I honestly hope you guys don't get american style healthcare.

fucking hell...

It's unlikely, instead we'll see healthcare services being offered out to private companies so a portion of the money spent by the government will be going into the pockets of the owners. Services will deteriorate and staff will be overworked (still) only now it will be for the benefit of a bottom-line instead of due to neglect and underfunding. By the time the whole thing crumbles the executives will already have received some nice fat bonuses and the politicians who made it happen will either get cushy jobs sitting on their boards or "consulting," or be cleaning up on the dinner speech service. It's win-win all around unless you're not part of the wealthy elite and happen to get sick.

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Drain the swamp!

Your preferred candidate for PM is a lying, hypocritical, racist, sexist, homophobic coward... and this isn't something that can be dismissed as media spin, it's all printed under his name. He's so rotten, bloated and gassy Johnson practically is the swamp all on his own.

[LeGin Tufnel]

That is bullshit. A gigantic part of the left supports Brexit. The EU has always been a thorn in the side of the labour movements.
The only reason why some leftists support the EU is to spite the alt-right.

You wish.

Brexit is a right wing project.

You're a fool to think otherwise.

[Kallisto]

SNP left-wing, doesn't want Brexit.
Labour Left-wing, 90% + doesn't want Brexit.
Greens Left-Wing, Doesn't want Brexit.
Plaid Cymru Left-wing, doesn't want Brexit.
SDLP left-wing, doesn't want Brexit.
Sinn Fein Left-Wing, Doesn't want Brexit.

Conservatives - Far-right (under Bojo), wants hard Brexit to sell out to the US.
Brexit party - Very far-right - really wants a hard Brexit.
DUP - Crazy rightists Really want Brexit.

Certainly seems like a right wing thing.

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Also Boris is talking about busses again.

Trying to hide a certain bus from google I'm sure.

[Jessicka]

SNP left-wing, doesn't want Brexit.
Labour Left-wing, 90% + doesn't want Brexit.
Greens Left-Wing, Doesn't want Brexit.
Plaid Cymru Left-wing, doesn't want Brexit.
SDLP left-wing, doesn't want Brexit.
Sinn Fein Left-Wing, Doesn't want Brexit.

Conservatives - Far-right (under Bojo), wants hard Brexit to sell out to the US.
Brexit party - Very far-right - really wants a hard Brexit.
DUP - Crazy rightists Really want Brexit.

Certainly seems like a right wing thing.

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Also Boris is talking about busses again.

Trying to hide a certain bus from google I'm sure.

There is a leftist movement that’s for Brexit, I have a friend who is a keen Lexiteer; but mostly even they recognise its current trajectory being driven by the hard right is a far, far worse option than remaining.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Ummm…

So, having posted this thread on 24/11/19 it’s taken up until now for a mod called @Arlee (never seen before in /General OT or /Politics) to infract me for “inappropreiate imagry in [my] posts”

Hey @Arlee

Here’s some more “inappropreiate imagry”

Infract me again.

I’ve even included a bit of pubic hair this time, I know it offends you millennial types.

This time maybe indulge in a little pause before you hit return. A little hiatus. Attempt to engage brain? Do you have one? At least run spell-check. You can do it if you try.

-<snip>-

[dribbles]

Ummm…

So, having posted this thread on 24/11/19 it’s taken up until now for a mod called @Arlee (never seen before in /General OT or /Politics) to infract me for “inappropreiate imagry in [my] posts”

Hey @Arlee

Here’s some more “inappropreiate imagry”

Infract me again.

I’ve even included a bit of pubic hair this time, I know it offends you millennial types.

This time maybe indulge in a little pause before you hit return. A little hiatus. Attempt to engage brain? Do you have one? At least run spell-check. You can do it if you try.

Tsk Tsk you are a naughty naughty boy Nigel, obviously the product of a Labour education with no respect for authority and your early years spent with too much time behind the bike sheds, if not in detention...


Infracted.

[Graeham]

It's not the appropriate place to discuss moderation related issues.

Politics are a complicated issue, at any rate. Don't let things get heated, avoid rising to blatant bait, don't resort to personal attacks and nobody going to get in trouble.

[Monster Hunter]

SNP left-wing, doesn't want Brexit.
Labour Left-wing, 90% + doesn't want Brexit.
Greens Left-Wing, Doesn't want Brexit.
Plaid Cymru Left-wing, doesn't want Brexit.
SDLP left-wing, doesn't want Brexit.
Sinn Fein Left-Wing, Doesn't want Brexit.

Conservatives - Far-right (under Bojo), wants hard Brexit to sell out to the US.
Brexit party - Very far-right - really wants a hard Brexit.
DUP - Crazy rightists Really want Brexit.

Certainly seems like a right wing thing.

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Also Boris is talking about busses again.

Trying to hide a certain bus from google I'm sure.

Think there talking about how the left wing about 30ish years ago was anti EU.

No left wing party is pro brexit nowadays, at least not publicly, Labour flirts with neutrality as there older memebers corbyn included are still in the old anti eu ways.

If your a old school lefty leave there's no real party that represents you fully atm. Which is where the BXP and torys are drawing there extra numbers from.

[Graeham]

Politics is not some fucking middle-class debating society.

Maybe, to you, this is some kind of intellectual puzzle, but the consequences of this election are life and death for millions of people in this country. If your disability benefit gets cut or essential health services are withdrawn, or the police aren't there because their numbers have been reduced, you can end up dying in horrible pain. It is an indirect form of violence to be sure, but it is a violence of the spirit.

Maybe if you are secure financially you can afford to shake hands with your political opponents and acknowledge the best man won or something like it were a fucking game of polo, but as far I'm concerned any one voting Tory or support neo-liberal economics is at best misled, but generally speaking, a cunt.

I'm well aware as to what is at stake. With that said, people need to work with the tools that they have available to them and remain civil to avoid losing the ability to speak about such things in the first place. Your opponents want you to get frustrated. They want you to lash out. Like it or not, there's an element of needing to play the 'game' in order to remain a player.

I don't want to see another round of the Conservatives, though I won't be surprised if they end up getting in either just barely or because they strike another deal with the Liberal Democrats.

What we need is a complete overhaul of the political system from the ground up. We need to get rid of career politicians and hold politicians in general accountable for what they say and do to a much higher degree than we currently do. Cutting expenses and limiting the degree of influence lobbying has would be a great start. Yet that isn't going to happen overnight and to my knowledge there aren't many (if any) politicians actively advocating for the system to change in such a manner.

[Monster Hunter]

It's Kangodo, so they mean Communist parties only as left-wing.

Well in that case I'd point to the communist party of great Britain who's pro brexit.

https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave

I was only referring to party's that actualy stand candidates and arnt a joke when I said no current party's do but there is a sizable left wing leave camp.

It's also why I don't really trust Gilrak as an honest actor in this thread, as there breaking there own party line on the issue.

[mojojojo202]

I'm well aware as to what is at stake. With that said, people need to work with the tools that they have available to them and remain civil to avoid losing the ability to speak about such things in the first place. Your opponents want you to get frustrated. They want you to lash out. Like it or not, there's an element of needing to play the 'game' in order to remain a player.

I don't want to see another round of the Conservatives, though I won't be surprised if they end up getting in either just barely or because they strike another deal with the Liberal Democrats.

What we need is a complete overhaul of the political system from the ground up. We need to get rid of career politicians and hold politicians in general accountable for what they say and do to a much higher degree than we currently do. Cutting expenses and limiting the degree of influence lobbying has would be a great start. Yet that isn't going to happen overnight and to my knowledge there aren't many (if any) politicians actively advocating for the system to change in such a manner.

What you get out in your last paragraph is all very well and good but you are never going to achieve that while people hold views as expressed in your first paragraph.

If the game is broken you dont keep playing in the desperate hope thateitherthe game changes around you or you accidentally win. If you want to fix a broken game you go out and do that or you start playing a different game.

[Monster Hunter]

I'm well aware as to what is at stake. With that said, people need to work with the tools that they have available to them and remain civil to avoid losing the ability to speak about such things in the first place. Your opponents want you to get frustrated. They want you to lash out. Like it or not, there's an element of needing to play the 'game' in order to remain a player.

I don't want to see another round of the Conservatives, though I won't be surprised if they end up getting in either just barely or because they strike another deal with the Liberal Democrats.

What we need is a complete overhaul of the political system from the ground up. We need to get rid of career politicians and hold politicians in general accountable for what they say and do to a much higher degree than we currently do. Cutting expenses and limiting the degree of influence lobbying has would be a great start. Yet that isn't going to happen overnight and to my knowledge there aren't many (if any) politicians actively advocating for the system to change in such a manner.

A con + lib dem alliance is highly unlikely. When the last one happend it was an alliance of nessesity to get brown and a new Labour out who had been marred by years of bad economic planing and 2 disastrous wars, also policy wise they were more closely allinged. But that alliance hurt the Lib Dems really hard and its kit so long ago that the Lib Dems have forgotten. Also the torys and libdems are more opposed to each other specifically over brexit than Labour and the torys are currently.

No if there's going to be a coalition this time, it will either be a Conservative + BXP or a Labour + SNP alliance, the SNP can be easily bought with a 2nd indy ref for Scotland, Something labour's allready set the ground work murmurings for.

My prediction is a con majority by how things are looking at the moment. And there's depressingly little I can do about that, as embarrassing as jhonson has been, the Labour Party has seemed hell bent on having these car crash interviews and adopting policy's they haven't done the pre election leg work to make popular. If you want to build an election on Nationalisation you kinda need to convince people Nationalisation is the right solution first and thelat takes at least a few years of propaganda. I do get the feeling sometimes that sometimes party's forget we nolonger automatically trust them anymore

[Graeham]

What you get out in your last paragraph is all very well and good but you are never going to achieve that while people hold views as expressed in your first paragraph.

If the game is broken you dont keep playing in the desperate hope thateitherthe game changes around you or you accidentally win. If you want to fix a broken game you go out and do that or you start playing a different game.

It's not a great situation, though how would you propose changing things in a non-violent manner? Protests aren't as effective as they used to be and have a habit of just turning public opinion against whatever cause is being presented as a major issue. To say nothing of the huge amount of money it costs to mobilise the police each time a major protest happens.

[Graeham]

A con + lib dem alliance is highly unlikely. When the last one happend it was an alliance of nessesity to get brown and a new Labour out who had been marred by years of bad economic planing and 2 disastrous wars, also policy wise they were more closely allinged. But that alliance hurt the Lib Dems really hard and its kit so long ago that the Lib Dems have forgotten. Also the torys and libdems are more opposed to each other specifically over brexit than Labour and the torys are currently.

No if there's going to be a coalition this time, it will either be a Conservative + BXP or a Labour + SNP alliance, the SNP can be easily bought with a 2nd indy ref for Scotland, Something labour's allready set the ground work murmurings for.

My prediction is a con majority by how things are looking at the moment. And there's depressingly little I can do about that, as embarrassing as jhonson has been, the Labour Party has seemed hell bent on having these car crash interviews and adopting policy's they haven't done the pre election leg work to make popular. If you want to build an election on Nationalisation you kinda need to convince people Nationalisation is the right solution first and thelat takes at least a few years of propaganda. I do get the feeling sometimes that sometimes party's forget we nolonger automatically trust them anymore

I'm mostly going by Jo Swinson's voting record and her admiration of Thatcher. She's very much in alignment with Tory policies on many fronts and if it meant getting into power I don't doubt that she'd align with the Tories if the opportunity presented itself.

You're correct in that it could go in a different direction, though with all the bickering between parties and unpopular policies being put at the forefront I don't doubt that things will get weird.

[Graeham]

I don't know about that. I oppose everything he stands for ideologically, but Trump did win an election despite "lashing out" repeatedly in a much more childish manner than any one on the British left would. He was visibly the least civil person in any debate.

I think "civility" is something that has gone the way of the dinosaur along with the popularity of the center-left. Too much civility and you sound like an establishment politician and it becomes impossible to win support for the reforms that you propose, because you lack credibility.

I'd argue that Trump won in large part for the same reason that Leave won the Brexit referendum. Instead of working to address the legitimate concerns and issues raised by those voting for such things the 'racist' and 'xenophobe' claims were brought out and caused many to double down. There's also very much a sense of the Left having moved to a dangerous place, having been hijacked in many places by extremists who have nothing but contempt for rural voters/the working class. The Democrats and Labour have both been steadily moving more and more towards identity politics in recent years and also pushing bizarre conspiracy theories along the lines of 'White Privilege' and the like.

As someone who is all for equality, it's frustrating. I want to see true equality, yet the supposedly 'nicer' parties seem to keep trying to play different groups against each other instead of trying to find something that works for everybody.

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She isn't just in alignment with the Tories, in coalition she voted with the Tory whip more often than Michael Gove did. All those homeless people on the street, all the disability benefit cuts that killed people, that is all stuff she voted for.

Maybe vote for the Lib Dems in seats where Labour have no chance, but any one voting LD for any other reason has to be either a tory of seriously misguided.

Yeah, she definitely has just as much blood on her hands as most of the Tories do. It's pretty awful how the disabled and other vulnerable groups have been treated within society. Here in St Andrews it's pretty much an expected case of either the SNP or Lib Dems getting in. I ended up voting for the former, in no small part because it was hard not to consider a vote for the Lib Dems to effectively just be a vote for the Tories.

[JohnBrown1917]

This year's "BORN YESTERDAY" award goes to Monster Hunter!

Tories and the lib dems agree on pretty much everything aside from brexit.

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It's Kangodo, so they mean Communist parties only as left-wing.

Left wing parties are still anti-EU, but not for the same reasons the right wing is. Which is why everybody who is left-wing and is even the slighest amount of pragmatic will realize that even considering leaving the EU will only be worthwhile with a strong. eu skeptic, left-wing majority. Even then, it would be better to reform the EU.

A lot of EU rules can be ignored if a country really does not want to follow it anyway..

[dribbles]

Tories and the lib dems agree on pretty much everything aside from brexit.

Looks very much like the Lib Dems are taking votes from Labour though. Anyone still thinking it will be a hung parliament? Not what the poll of polls says.

Three cheers, in advance, to the Lib Dems for giving Brexit Boris his majority.

[JohnBrown1917]

Social democratic parties are largely considered left or center-left and the vast majority of them are pro-EU to my knowledge.

Most of those have moved to the centre, sadly. Labour in the UK is probably one of the few that moving back to the centre-left. The idea behind the EU is great, but its policies could use a lot of reforms.

[Jessicka]

Looks very much like the Lib Dems are taking votes from Labour though. Anyone still thinking it will be a hung parliament? Not what the poll of polls says.

Three cheers, in advance, to the Lib Dems for giving Brexit Boris his majority.

Lib Dems have shifted their strategy now to chasing Tory Remainer seats. It's not overall vote that counts, as well we keep needing to remind you.

[Monster Hunter]

I'm mostly going by Jo Swinson's voting record and her admiration of Thatcher. She's very much in alignment with Tory policies on many fronts and if it meant getting into power I don't doubt that she'd align with the Tories if the opportunity presented itself.

You're correct in that it could go in a different direction, though with all the bickering between parties and unpopular policies being put at the forefront I don't doubt that things will get weird.

Yea things could get wierd, but thatchers policy's are not like Boris jhonson direction. Thatcher was well a thatcherite, jhonson policy's are one nation (which would be a good thing if he was actualy trustworthy) there are factions within each party and thatcherite's and one nation Conservatives don't usualy get on very well.

Also I have to question what Swinson means by admire, thatcher was at the end of the day the first female priminister and was a strong woman.

And let's face it when it comes to women to look up to as firsts in the UK politics you don't have any good options.

Constance the first female mp was IRA and never took her seat.

The first woman lady astor to be elected and take her seat was a nazi sympathiser

And thatcher was well thatcher.

Both first for women also going to the Conservative party.

So not great options when looking for a female political hero :/