What’s your opinion on Greta Thurnberg?

[Machismo]

There is nothing to provide. He claims i need proof of him not being a libertarian, but his post history is all the info I need.

He clearly isn't a libertarian, just likes to pretend to be one on these forums.

Now run along Scooby.

Well, you are the one who made baseless claims numerous times. If there's nothing to provide, then I guess that's you admitting you have no evidence.

Great, I accept your apology and full retraction.

It's weird that you admit to not having evidence, then re-assert your same baseless claim.

[Machismo]

Don't be so daft. You read his bullshit like everyone else.

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But is taxation theft?

Still no evidence?

I said I would gladly answer your question, as soon as you provided evidence for your baseless claim. Don't blame me, because you made baseless claims, and desperately want me to find evidence for you.

[Machismo]

So you are either a dumbass who thinks taxation is indeed theft, or you aren't a true libertarian.

Got it.

Well, it's become clear that you are still unable to provide evidence.

Moving on to the topic at hand.

It's weird how triggered people get by a teenage girl saying things.

[Greyvax]

she lost all credibility when she ranted about stealing her dreams and childhood

[Endus]

The interpretation of her words, I think, is itself a matter of interpretation in turn influenced by personal bias.

This was the (nearly) full passage: After all, the climate crisis is not just about the environment. It is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all. Our political leaders can no longer shirk their responsibilities.”

I would need to be educated on which human rights are being infringed upon as a result of climate change. Out of top of my head I can only think of a right to decent and clean sustenance, which is to say, broadly, that the water you drink and the air you breathe are not harmful to your well-being.

Rising sea levels are also displacing people from their homes, likely permanently. Climate change is a really broad issue, and the impacts are similarly broad; we're not talking about imprisoning an individual without justification, we're talking really broad rights to a homeland and things like that. These places are being lost, essentially, so that rich Westerners could profit.

Moreover, it would be necessary to demonstrate how such infringements have a systematic oppressive nature to them, besides just lack of political will and an erroneous focus on short-term gain.

Economies are systems.

If they produce a negative impact, that's "systemic".

Just as a for-instance.

Additionally, the fact that she says "we need to dismantle them all" makes it safe to assume that whatever systems she believes are responsible for this are, today, still racist, colonial and oppressive.

Or at least based on such from the past, for no really justifiable reason.

I don't really agree with her, I'm just pointing out what she actually said.

You can be right or affective in this case... you are choosing right. That's why the movement will fail.

"We're wrong and we know we're wrong but we can mislead people into agreeing with us" is the most self-damning thing you've said.

They are buzzwords because they are comparing the West to a Utopia that does not exist. They are both true in the sense that they happened, but also do not do anything but stoke hate for the West and White people that had nothing to do with what happened in the past.

1> That's not what "buzzword" means.
2> This has nothing to do with "the West" nor "white people". Thurnberg is Western, and is also a white person. Race panics are so 1950s, dude. You're caricaturizing yourself.

[Endus]

Endus, this is a lost cause. Keep ripping this forum and the west apart. I tag out of this conversation because we will never see eye to eye on this.

Because you won't listen to facts, and want everyone to blindly accept your fearmongering and persecution complex as "true" even though there's not a whiff of evidence to support any of it.

[Ivanstone]

Or the west will rip itself apart.

That's what stupid people say during all times of social upheaval. Pick any social movement from the past couple hundred years. You'll find people opposed to it and being outright dicks about it.

I heard once that half a country rebelled against the other half because the latter wanted to end slavery. Shocking!

[ParanoiD84]

Think she is being used by all for their agendas and she just follows along with no clue, seen her try to answer questions without a script or someone to ask, didnt go so well. Oh and she likes to look angry.

[Grimbold21]

Rising sea levels are also displacing people from their homes, likely permanently. Climate change is a really broad issue, and the impacts are similarly broad; we're not talking about imprisoning an individual without justification, we're talking really broad rights to a homeland and things like that. These places are being lost, essentially, so that rich Westerners could profit.



Economies are systems.

If they produce a negative impact, that's "systemic".

Just as a for-instance.



Or at least based on such from the past, for no really justifiable reason.

I don't really agree with her, I'm just pointing out what she actually said.
.

To state that an economy is a system and that a particular economic system or an individual national economic system is racist or oppressive are two different things.

Acknowledging that past systems were to a degree oppressive is fine, but to use that as the basis for arguing that modern economies have not changed in those aspects is, to my limited economic knowledge, wrong.

As for the consequences of climate change, I do not dispute that, but you lost me that whatever was done and is being done today is to Western gain in detriment of "non-western" geographic units.

[Ivanstone]

There were other things different back then. For one thing, Religion was a strong unifying factor. A common reality/norms people could all adhere to.

Trust and Truth still existed, and National Pride with it.

Now you have a fragmented society that is polarizing faster and faster... enough that pretty liberal Newspapers print stuff like this

A Nation Coming Apart
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-apart/600730/

How Globalization Saved the World and Damned the West
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...e-west/582202/

But continue to do what you are doing.

Religion was a unifying factor? HAH! There was a major religious terrorist organization in the US from about 1870ish till... well, now! People were more religious then but they couldn't agree on the details even if they followed the same religion. They also used flimsy interpretations to justify whatever bullshit they actually believed. Think of any negative social idea and you wont have to look hard to find some asshole using religion to justify it. To be fair, you'll find almost any positive social progress has been back by religion (correct interpretation or not).

Fake news started the Spanish-American war and the Wilmington Coup. Both were over 100 years ago. So much for truth and trust.

But hey you found a couple of magazine articles that "support" your view. Guess what? Sometimes life sucks! Sometimes when you make progress you end up taking a few steps back afterwards but that's no reason to lose your shit when it happens.

[derpkitteh]

Because you won't listen to facts, and want everyone to blindly accept your fearmongering and persecution complex as "true" even though there's not a whiff of evidence to support any of it.

what you're stating aren't facts. yuri bezmenov blew the whistle on exactly what these "facts" are in the 80's(don't try to say this is conspiracy, this is straight from an asylum seeking defector's mouth).

climate change is a legitimate issue. whether or not its entirely man made, we do clearly have some impact on it. climate change is the singular issue that needs to be addressed, and muddying it with subversive nonsense doesn't help get anything done about it.

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I never claimed facts were subjective. I claimed that people were. How we see reality is subjective. Reality itself... well that's complicated.

Quantum physics: our study suggests objective reality doesn’t exist
https://theconversation.com/quantum-...t-exist-126805

don't believe the lie that these are facts, it's nothing but subversion that they've been brainwashed into believing.

[Endus]

what you're stating aren't facts. yuri bezmenov blew the whistle on exactly what these "facts" are in the 80's(don't try to say this is conspiracy, this is straight from an asylum seeking defector's mouth).

climate change is a legitimate issue. whether or not its entirely man made, we do clearly have some impact on it. climate change is the singular issue that needs to be addressed, and muddying it with subversive nonsense doesn't help get anything done about it.

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don't believe the lie that these are facts, it's nothing but subversion that they've been brainwashed into believing.

Sure, it's the collective understanding of most academics that's "subversive", not the angry reactions of far-right ideologues who reject reality when it contrasts negatively against their personal views.

That totally makes sense. It's all a grand conspiracy and it's the rest of the world that's crazy and brainwashed, not the tiny majority of people like yourself, who rely on propaganda and disinformation in everything you do.

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So drop the fact and focus on something we can agree on.

Facts over incorrect fact-averse feelings. I'm not going to agree with pushing something that's objectively incorrect just because your feelings are hurt by the truth.

[derpkitteh]

Sure, it's the collective understanding of most academics that's "subversive", not the angry reactions of far-right ideologues who reject reality when it contrasts negatively against their personal views.

That totally makes sense. It's all a grand conspiracy and it's the rest of the world that's crazy and brainwashed, not the tiny majority of people like yourself, who rely on propaganda and disinformation in everything you do.

i rely on the facts displayed to me by the behavior of everyone coming out of colleges. when a kgb defector says "they're doing X with colleges" and for the past 30-something years people have been coming out of colleges being X, that's what a fact is.

there's no brainwashing required here. only basic skills of observation.

[Endus]

Well, then you lose.

In what sense? Pretty much the entire developed world is in agreement on this.

Your rebellion against reality really doesn't have the support you think it is. You should step out of your echo chamber more often.

Politics is the art of the possible. You do not all agree on what you are adding onto what should be a universal idea. So what will happen? See France with the Yellow Vests, or the US in general... stalemates, protests, in affect status quo when it comes to climate.

The lack of werewithal on the issue is due to disinformation campaigns, like the one you're actively pushing here, yourself.

Sure, that's confused some people who don't know any better. That's all it's ever done. And all it can ever do. And the only options, here, are to stick to the facts, or let someone else scrub my brain and hope that I can "feel" better when I don't care about the truth any more. I'll take the former, every time. So do most people.

Yes, wealthy people have pushed a propaganda campaign on this issue. That doesn't mean swallowing that propaganda and disengaging your brain is the proper response.

[Endus]

i rely on the facts displayed to me by the behavior of everyone coming out of colleges. when a kgb defector says "they're doing X with colleges" and for the past 30-something years people have been coming out of colleges being X, that's what a fact is.

there's no brainwashing required here. only basic skills of observation.

So, not a single fact or piece of evidence. And a whopping lack of self-reflection.

Take a look at who US Intelligence says was targeted by Russian disinformation campaigns. It wasn't academics. It was the alt-right and other far-right extremists.

[Howel]

Well, then you lose. Politics is the art of the possible. We do not all agree on what you are adding onto what should be a universal idea. So what will happen? See France with the Yellow Vests, or the US in general... stalemates, protests, in affect status quo when it comes to climate.

So we should do nothing, that is too offensive, since it will hurt people's feelings; yet all notions points towards this being even far from what would be required.

A slow agonizing death, more preferable than a hurtful fixing.

[Endus]

You still haven't explained how any thing I've said in this thread is "far right". I'm not a climate change denier. I'm not arguing against making changes. Im arguing the fact she went into a buzzword laced spiel that makes people like me who see words like " patriarchy, colonialism, racism Etc" roll thier eyes. They're buzzwords plain and simple.

Much like incel is now.

Right here;

Anytime I hear "patriarchy, colonialism, etc" I automatically dismiss the other person opinion.

That's something you'd have to be far-right to actually believe and do. You stated you reject basic sociological concepts, flatly, and I have to assume it's because of your personal politics, since you gave no other reason.

[Rozz]

This thread is grossly off topic. This is closed.