[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Kyanion]

The major difference is that Chris Roberts expressly stated in it's pitch that he didin't want to build any old game but he wanted to build a Universe.

I'd say he wanted to build a 'game' that makes him look like a total idiot in that virtual cockpit based on the preview picture of that youtube video.

[MrAnderson]

I'd say he wanted to build a 'game' that makes him look like a total idiot in that virtual cockpit based on the preview picture of that youtube video.

While you're entitled to your view you might also acess that it's because of that kind of reasoning that he's the CEO of a multi-million dollar company while you're shitposting on a gaming website.

[Kyanion]

While you're entitled to your view you might also acess that it's because of that kind of reasoning that he's the CEO of a multi-million dollar company while you're shitposting on a gaming website.

Which has what to do with him looking like a total idiot? Oh yes, absolutely nothing but a weak attempt to insult me. Classy.

[MrAnderson]

Which has what to do with him looking like a total idiot? Oh yes, absolutely nothing but a weak attempt to insult me. Classy.

Well I guess it takes one to see one.

Still, I'd say only one of them is the CEO of a multimillion dollar business.

[Majestic12]

While you're entitled to your view you might also acess that it's because of that kind of reasoning that he's the CEO of a multi-million dollar company while you're shitposting on a gaming website.

Epstein was a horrendously successful guy with many celebs kissing his bum for years and years and look how that turned out.

The future will reveal if Star Citizen was a successful project or not. Chris is a CEO today but nobody knows how the project will turn out yet.

[Rennadrel]

given that your links are unrelated to the claim that was being discussed, you owe Mr. Anderson an apology. he specifically spoke about Star Citizen being more popular on Twitch and then you went to Google Trends and tried to use that as a counter to his assertion, which it does not even demonstrate, you also failed to give context to what the graphs you linked were showing. i hope that you did not deliberately leave out key information on purpose, as that would paint you as a very bad faith actor.
seems like they are proud that people are playing the game more even in its alpha state. nothing wrong with that.
huh? how so? if you play the game then they make perfect sense, if you do not know the locations and features of the game how can you make sense of the infographic? you are not its target audience. Loreville is a city on the planet Hurston so just looking at the 4 major landing areas (excluding Port Olisar as it is everyone's' initial spawn point into the game), 25.28% of players spent their time in the city of Loreville which is on the planet Hurston. the other comparison is that of the time backers played, 27.69% of the time was on the planet Hurston. the only thing we do not know is if the time spent on the planets includes the time spent in the specific cities on those planets as well or if they were separated, i am inclined to think that they were separate as you can land anywhere on all but one planet (ArcCorp) to which you are mainly relegated to the main Area 19 landingzone and rooftop landing pads.
wait, are you saying that an alpha with 21k players playing the game every day for 10 months straight for 1.5 hrs each day is not impressive? those are some really great numbers. but hey, that might just be me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
sorry, maybe i missed the insurance shit, mind elaborating on which insurance you are referring to and what the contention is? thanks.

A video from a huge Star Citizen critic:

I think we are starting to get into the "playable state" with SC's development. Yeah, it's missing a lot of core features and there still needs to be integration between the FPS component of the game and the space sim, as well as the racing part (though I think that one isn't as pressing of a feature). As far as an MMO goes, it's functional and you can do missions and whatnot, but I feel like there's, almost ironically, a lot of empty space in the game as a whole. I've traveled to a few planets and there's not much on them. The settlements feel barren, there's no items to pickup aside from parcels and there's no one to interact with from what I've experienced. There's a ton of work still be done to give the game more scope, but it's getting better.

[kenn9530]

Nope. SC offers stuff that Elite doesn't. Elite offers stuff that SC doesn't. Elite has more game loops, more content and more progression than SC. Those are the facts.
Repeating your lies is not going to make them true.



Yeah bullshit you are... you've been dissing Elite for pages now, do you really think anyone believes you're playing something you hold so much contempt for?



It's a featureless point A to point B lazy implementation of what could have been done. The fact that you have to stop to change direction should expose just how shit it is. Imagine if Microsoft Flight Simulator required stopping to change direction... people would laugh at such a shitty decision.



When this makes it in game it will be quite nice, at least for the first few times. I'm not sure that doing it every time will be fun.



Another feature that will be nice when it makes it into the game, reminds me of EVE's wormholes.



The minimum supercruise speed is 30km p/sec, there is no point in having it in 'normal' space because you'd shoot past ships and stations and other stuff way too fast for you or anybody else to react, just like now when you are in supercruise you can't see people that are not because it would be pointless, even at the slowest supercruise speed they would just be a momentary blip on the screen. It serves no purpose.

Then why dont you tell me what ED has that SC doesnt, your not backing up yourself with any information whatsoever, what are these so called game loops your on about, SC progression is whatever you want it to be but you still either gather materials/credits/reputation to do whatever you want, and it doesnt offer more content.

I dont hold any contempt for elite dangerous whatsoever, ED is a good game, SC just offers more of what a space game should be.

QT is a system thats used in many scif fi tv series genres, and whats the point in being able to move freely at those speeds, fuel is actually important in SC far more than it is in ED so you want to go from point A to B as direct as possible in more cases, even in ED your pretty much only heading in a straight line and the option to move around is irrelevant, there is also no system in SC to prevent G forces so the only protection you get is from traveling in one direction, any changes would be instant death at 20% speed of light.

Jump gates are in the upcoming patch which is available to the Evocati currently and should be for everyone in the next few weeks, its a seemless transition from one system to another only takes a few mins, so it wont really waste any more time than jumping from star to star in ED, there are also going to be more than one jump point in at least some systems. The jump gate to pyro that is coming in 3.8 is a lesser stable one as its not in use as much as it used to be, there is no loading screens at all you enter a jump point control your ship and at the end come out in the next system.

Supercruise is a little similar to star trek online in a way where you see the planets in a less realistic setting and just head to that target and drop out when needed, the planets only get slightly bigger when your right next to them when they should be huge, it works it just doesnt give you a complete sense of traveling from planet to planet.

[kenn9530]

When you make a claim, the burden of proof falls upon you, it's not others that have to prove you wrong.

Just saying.

I have actually provided some of what SC has and its more than what ED provides, yet i have seen no such evidence that ED has things SC wont have even with many hours played ingame, he made a claim ED has things that SC doesnt and didnt provide an example.

[Kyanion]

I have actually provided some of what SC has and its more than what ED provides, yet i have seen no such evidence that ED has things SC wont have even with many hours played ingame, he made a claim ED has things that SC doesnt and didnt provide an example.

Actually you mostly provide what SC may have in the future laced with some of what SC actually has in game right now.

[kenn9530]

Actually you mostly provide what SC may have in the future laced with some of what SC actually has in game right now.

It may not be obvious to you but when making any comparison to games that are similar you use known information on what the games will have at its official release, otherwise your just pushing your own agenda to make yourself feel better, by the time ED actually implements things like fps type gameplay SQ 42 will already be launched and the PU will underway to completion or launched itself.

[kenn9530]

Maybe it's not obvious because you keep referring to it in it's current state?







Also: "Your just pushing your own agenda to make yourself feel better".... really, I mean... really?

*insert: [hold on, this whole operation was your idea. meme] here*

In its most current version SC has at the very least a basic form of everything ED currently has.

[1001]

In its most current version SC has at the very least a basic form of everything ED currently has.

Damn still perpetuating these lies?

Does SC have alien bases, alien ships AI, server-wide communal missions, (light) storyline, powerplay, guardian (style) missions, engineer system, full upgrade system to ships and many other things I just cannot be bothered to list. I've given you this before, are you just ignoring stuff that has been spelled out for you?

It really does not matter if SC doesn't have all these things, it has plenty of other things that Elite doesn't have. So just be happy... it's like you feel SC is diminished if it doesn't have exactly the same, or better...

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Then why dont you tell me what ED has that SC doesnt, your not backing up yourself with any information whatsoever, what are these so called game loops your on about, SC progression is whatever you want it to be but you still either gather materials/credits/reputation to do whatever you want, and it doesnt offer more content.

I told you very early on that this is an absurd dick-waving competitiion and I was not going to start listing out "My game is better than your game" crap. I gave a few examples of things just to show that you are wrong and that is all I am prepared to do because it is such an idiotic topic. You want to recreate 7 year olds arguing in the playground whether the Megadrive is better...

I dont hold any contempt for elite dangerous whatsoever, ED is a good game, SC just offers more of what a space game should be.

Like bullshit. And take a hike with "SC just offers more of what a space game should be." Like who are you to decide what a space game should be? The corrected and perfectly acceptable quote "SC just offers more of what I think a space game should be." It's an important point of clarification that shows you understand subjective opinions and that you're not trying to pass your opinion off as objective fact (which is something you repeatedly try to do).

QT is a system thats used in many scif fi tv series genres, and whats the point in being able to move freely at those speeds, fuel is actually important in SC far more than it is in ED so you want to go from point A to B as direct as possible in more cases, even in ED your pretty much only heading in a straight line and the option to move around is irrelevant, there is also no system in SC to prevent G forces so the only protection you get is from traveling in one direction, any changes would be instant death at 20% speed of light.

What's the point? Gee I dunno, maybe because it adds actual fucking gameplay....it turns a 15 minute journey into something more than flashing screen effects. It's more interactive, it lets you see the game world around you, it lets you navigate to a different planet or station on the fly, it lets you seamlessly change direction and jump elsewhere, it enables interdictions etc - I've said all this already.

Jump gates are in the upcoming patch which is available to the Evocati currently and should be for everyone in the next few weeks, its a seemless transition from one system to another only takes a few mins, so it wont really waste any more time than jumping from star to star in ED, there are also going to be more than one jump point in at least some systems. The jump gate to pyro that is coming in 3.8 is a lesser stable one as its not in use as much as it used to be, there is no loading screens at all you enter a jump point control your ship and at the end come out in the next system.

That really depends on how long they take to navigate and how much attention they require. Admittedly it is not like you will be doing jump after jump after jump (SC doesn't have enough systems for that )

Supercruise is a little similar to star trek online in a way where you see the planets in a less realistic setting and just head to that target and drop out when needed, the planets only get slightly bigger when your right next to them when they should be huge, it works it just doesnt give you a complete sense of traveling from planet to planet.

No no no, you're just unable to understand that you have no point of reference for deducing the scale of things. Look at the distance you are from a planet, you're talking a large number of light seconds which is an incredible distance so of course things are still small.

[Revamp Man]

you see I really like the idea of Star citizen but when you can pretty much pinpoint the fact that they have spent more than a year of development time altogether just doing things like helmets it kind of makes me wonder if this game will ever actually lunch or if this game is perpetually in alpha

now don't get me wrong I really love how the game looks and I'm not saying that they spent a year only working on helmets but if you were to take all of the different aspects of something stupid like visor glare on a character's helmets and you were to take the development time that was used to make that as good as they want to make it and if you were to take stuff like that out of the development roadmap then maybe just maybe we would see a release date in the next decade

I think that not making a deal with any of the console companies was probably a good move because they would have launched the game in a state similar to no Man's sky and it would have been improved over time via microtransactions and maybe in terms of the Creator that's bad because he wants to launch this world in a perfect state but that will never happen

Just f****** launch it now and upgraded overtime don't worry about having two hundred different versions of one weapon in the game don't worry about how the rocks on planet 5 move in a weird way or how a player idling has to breathe right just get the f****** game out you can improve it over time

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Just f****** launch it now and upgraded overtime don't worry about having two hundred different versions of one weapon in the game don't worry about how the rocks on planet 5 move in a weird way or how a player idling has to breathe right just get the f****** game out you can improve it over time

The MMO servers have been online for four years, having launched in December 2015. The problem is that we don't have full persistence, which means you can't make any long lasting progress right now.

A lot of content has been developed for Star Citizen, but cannot be implemented all at once because the servers cannot handle them. For example, Levski is supposed to be in another star system, but because the servers can't support another star system, it was placed in the Stanton system. The original plan was to remove Levski and replace it with Microtech (a Stanton planet) when the later released, but that won't be necessary due to OBCS. Another example: racing missions were in the game for several patches, but were removed to make room for other content for players to test.

OBCS is coming in the next patch, which will allow for better performance and more things to be added and the things that were removed to be added back in, but the main thing we're waiting on is server meshing. Until then, the servers will capped at fifty players and we won't have full persistence, which means wipes every patch.

Doesn't matter whether or not the art team stops working on helmets. It won't make server meshing come out faster.

- - - Updated - - -

Clarification on OBCS and Server Meshing

So right now, the extent of the playable universe in Star Citizen is the Stanton System. There is a lot of stuff going on in just this one system. There are four planets. On the planet Hurston alone, you have a large city with hundreds of NPCs walking about, twenty-one HSDF outposts with NPCs in them, huge cavern systems with NPCs inside them, bunkers with NPC bands inside them, automated turret systems. Inside the caves and on the surface of the planet, there a ton of objects being tracked, such as ore veins and fruits from bushes which you can harvest. That's just one planet alone, and there are four planets and eight moons, all with a ton of stuff on them. Furthermore, there are fifteen space stations populated by NPCs in the Stanton System. Further straining calculations is the fact that the Stanton System is rendered at a realistic solar system scale. SC was built in the Crisis engine, which was designed for FPS games with maps a few square kilometers in size at the most, not for star systems with thousands of NPCs and crap in it. The servers are stretched enough as it is.

So two things are needed: object container streaming (OBCS), and server meshing.

OBCS means that the server will only calculate areas that are in use by the players. As of right now, the servers runs the entire Stanton System simulation. It's still calculating all of those NPCs in some HSDF outpost, all of the rocks and bushes nearby, all of the cargo containers inside it, all of the turrets outside of it, etc, even if there are no players nearby. For obvious reasons, this is ludicrously inefficient. What OBCS will do is that the server will only begin running parts of the simulation that players visit. If no one is at Levski, the server won't bother with Levski. The SC devs have already been preparing for this by cordoning off areas of SC into rooms, which leads us to...

Server meshing. This is built on top of OBCS. This will allow servers to dynamically spin up and manage an area of players. For example, let's say there are a hundred players having a party in the ArcCorp bar. Rather than one server trying to maintain the entire star system, the game will instead have a new server spool up and run just that one bar with the hundred players in it, and players will be able to seamlessly walk in and out of the bar, crossing servers. Thus, there will no longer be a server cap. There will just be the one universe. This will enable CIG to put everything back in. They will be able to up the NPC count so that the cities don't feel so underpopulated. They will be able to add NPC ships traveling around the system so that it doesn't feel like the players are the only spacefarers in the verse. CIG won't have to worry about their servers running out of ram and crashing.

CIG got a basic version of OBCS running earlier this year, and it's set to be integrated into the game in the next patch, 3.8. Server meshing is slated to be coming mid 2020 and the SC devs seem to be pretty confident about that. We can't get the next star system, Pyro, until server meshing is implemented, after all.

[Gorsameth]

The MMO servers have been online for four years, having launched in December 2015. The problem is that we don't have full persistence, which means you can't make any long lasting progress right now.

A lot of content has been developed for Star Citizen, but cannot be implemented all at once because the servers cannot handle them. For example, Levski is supposed to be in another star system, but because the servers can't support another star system, it was placed in the Stanton system. The original plan was to remove Levski and replace it with Microtech (a Stanton planet) when the later released, but that won't be necessary due to OBCS. Another example: racing missions were in the game for several patches, but were removed to make room for other content for players to test.

OBCS is coming in the next patch, which will allow for better performance and more things to be added and the things that were removed to be added back in, but the main thing we're waiting on is server meshing. Until then, the servers will capped at fifty players and we won't have full persistence, which means wipes every patch.

Doesn't matter whether or not the art team stops working on helmets. It won't make server meshing come out faster.

- - - Updated - - -

Clarification on OBCS and Server Meshing

So right now, the extent of the playable universe in Star Citizen is the Stanton System. There is a lot of stuff going on in just this one system. There are four planets. On the planet Hurston alone, you have a large city with hundreds of NPCs walking about, twenty-one HSDF outposts with NPCs in them, huge cavern systems with NPCs inside them, bunkers with NPC bands inside them, automated turret systems. Inside the caves and on the surface of the planet, there a ton of objects being tracked, such as ore veins and fruits from bushes which you can harvest. That's just one planet alone, and there are four planets and eight moons, all with a ton of stuff on them. Furthermore, there are fifteen space stations populated by NPCs in the Stanton System. Further straining calculations is the fact that the Stanton System is rendered at a realistic solar system scale. SC was built in the Crisis engine, which was designed for FPS games with maps a few square kilometers in size at the most, not for star systems with thousands of NPCs and crap in it. The servers are stretched enough as it is.

So two things are needed: object container streaming (OBCS), and server meshing.

OBCS means that the server will only calculate areas that are in use by the players. As of right now, the servers runs the entire Stanton System simulation. It's still calculating all of those NPCs in some HSDF outpost, all of the rocks and bushes nearby, all of the cargo containers inside it, all of the turrets outside of it, etc, even if there are no players nearby. For obvious reasons, this is ludicrously inefficient. What OBCS will do is that the server will only begin running parts of the simulation that players visit. If no one is at Levski, the server won't bother with Levski. The SC devs have already been preparing for this by cordoning off areas of SC into rooms, which leads us to...

Server meshing. This is built on top of OBCS. This will allow servers to dynamically spin up and manage an area of players. For example, let's say there are a hundred players having a party in the ArcCorp bar. Rather than one server trying to maintain the entire star system, the game will instead have a new server spool up and run just that one bar with the hundred players in it, and players will be able to seamlessly walk in and out of the bar, crossing servers. Thus, there will no longer be a server cap. There will just be the one universe. This will enable CIG to put everything back in. They will be able to up the NPC count so that the cities don't feel so underpopulated. They will be able to add NPC ships traveling around the system so that it doesn't feel like the players are the only spacefarers in the verse. CIG won't have to worry about their servers running out of ram and crashing.

CIG got a basic version of OBCS running earlier this year, and it's set to be integrated into the game in the next patch, 3.8. Server meshing is slated to be coming mid 2020 and the SC devs seem to be pretty confident about that. We can't get the next star system, Pyro, until server meshing is implemented, after all.

And you don't think its worrying that 4 years after going online and 7/8? years of development later the biggest most ambitious space MMO in history hasn't yet figured out how to handle persistence and multiple systems?

I'm sure thy are very confident about having it next year. Just like they were last year....
ps.
A citizencon summery lists server meshing for 2021, not 2020


Isn't Squadron 42 coming next year aswell?
I bet they showed off a lot of stuff from that.

[Kyanion]

It may not be obvious to you but when making any comparison to games that are similar you use known information on what the games will have at its official release, otherwise your just pushing your own agenda to make yourself feel better, by the time ED actually implements things like fps type gameplay SQ 42 will already be launched and the PU will underway to completion or launched itself.

You seriously can't be typing that shit and think it is going to fly under the radar. The difference is one game has launched and has X features and the other game hasn't launched yet and has Y features in the pipeline still. Good fucking lord man.

[1001]

You seriously can't be typing that shit and think it is going to fly under the radar. The difference is one game has launched and has X features and the other game hasn't launched yet and has Y features in the pipeline still. Good fucking lord man.

It's crazy isn't it. This guy would stack the deck so far in his favor just to "win". If he had his way he would compare a game releasing in 2014 to one releasing in 2024 and think that is acceptable....

[Cyclone Jack]

Jump gates are in the upcoming patch which is available to the Evocati currently and should be for everyone in the next few weeks, its a seemless transition from one system to another only takes a few mins, so it wont really waste any more time than jumping from star to star in ED, there are also going to be more than one jump point in at least some systems. The jump gate to pyro that is coming in 3.8 is a lesser stable one as its not in use as much as it used to be, there is no loading screens at all you enter a jump point control your ship and at the end come out in the next system.

I'm not sure why you keep saying Pyro is coming with 3.8, as everything I saw from CitCon said that it was due some time next year, most likely after server meshing. The two new things coming for 3.8 are Planet Tech v4 (with all the bodies updated to v4 as well), and Server-Side Object Container Streaming (SSOCS).

[Rennadrel]

And you don't think its worrying that 4 years after going online and 7/8? years of development later the biggest most ambitious space MMO in history hasn't yet figured out how to handle persistence and multiple systems?

I'm sure thy are very confident about having it next year. Just like they were last year....
ps.
A citizencon summery lists server meshing for 2021, not 2020


Isn't Squadron 42 coming next year aswell?
I bet they showed off a lot of stuff from that.

The first chapter is slated for next year I think. But it's going to be a while before we see that project fully completed.

[kenn9530]

Damn still perpetuating these lies?

Does SC have alien bases, alien ships AI, server-wide communal missions, (light) storyline, powerplay, guardian (style) missions, engineer system, full upgrade system to ships and many other things I just cannot be bothered to list. I've given you this before, are you just ignoring stuff that has been spelled out for you?

It really does not matter if SC doesn't have all these things, it has plenty of other things that Elite doesn't have. So just be happy... it's like you feel SC is diminished if it doesn't have exactly the same, or better...

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I told you very early on that this is an absurd dick-waving competitiion and I was not going to start listing out "My game is better than your game" crap. I gave a few examples of things just to show that you are wrong and that is all I am prepared to do because it is such an idiotic topic. You want to recreate 7 year olds arguing in the playground whether the Megadrive is better...



Like bullshit. And take a hike with "SC just offers more of what a space game should be." Like who are you to decide what a space game should be? The corrected and perfectly acceptable quote "SC just offers more of what I think a space game should be." It's an important point of clarification that shows you understand subjective opinions and that you're not trying to pass your opinion off as objective fact (which is something you repeatedly try to do).



What's the point? Gee I dunno, maybe because it adds actual fucking gameplay....it turns a 15 minute journey into something more than flashing screen effects. It's more interactive, it lets you see the game world around you, it lets you navigate to a different planet or station on the fly, it lets you seamlessly change direction and jump elsewhere, it enables interdictions etc - I've said all this already.



That really depends on how long they take to navigate and how much attention they require. Admittedly it is not like you will be doing jump after jump after jump (SC doesn't have enough systems for that )



No no no, you're just unable to understand that you have no point of reference for deducing the scale of things. Look at the distance you are from a planet, you're talking a large number of light seconds which is an incredible distance so of course things are still small.

Alien ships - Server wide missions - Upgrading systems - Powerplay/guardian are just forms of missions - You can play the role of an engineer - story mode is SQ 42, PU will be the normal lore - only thing not in currently is alien structures but they will have multiple systems and at least a few cities.

QT you can see the system around you, can do admin tasks, maintain your ship and you can adjust course anytime you want, you can also be interdicted but interdiction in both games doesnt make sense as you would need to know where the ship is and have a faster ship to intercept to make it work, interdiction only really works on stuff like popular exit/entry points. SC has a ship for that job but its only a 20km range.

You seriously can't be typing that shit and think it is going to fly under the radar. The difference is one game has launched and has X features and the other game hasn't launched yet and has Y features in the pipeline still. Good fucking lord man.

SC has plenty of features already implemented, ED was technically lauched in an alpha state as it was missing tons of stuff but it built those things up over the years just like SC is doing.