Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Cthulhu 2020]

In the ongoing effort to defend Trump's shrilling that this is all just a partisan circus, McConnell flat-out admits in public that he'll get 51 GOP members and just set the rules for the Senate trial that way.

"Does he have 51 votes?"

Well, even McConnell isn't sure. But the fact that he's even discussing this as an option now removes any "partisan show" defense. After all, if it's wrong when the Democrats are following the listed rules because that's partisan, surely it's even more wrong for the Republicans to change the rules. Otherwise, you'd just have to admit the defense is blatant hypocrisy.

"Well, surely when the last -- "

Of course. All of this crying that "Democrats aren't following the rules!" is just a distraction and a side show to distract from the crimes. If Republicans allow Trump to get away with what he's done unpunished, it sets a horrible precedent for the future. Imagine Democrats holding a majority in both houses and the white house. Republicans will lose their minds over any future Democrat following Trump's precedent of soliciting aid from foreign countries to expand their power.

That is, unless Americans decide to vote Republican. Then we get a Weimar Republic moment, where the Republicans strike down the constitution and declare Trump president for life with power over legislation and no oversight. If our country's checks and balances fail, so too will the country fall as we knew it.

I hate to make doom and gloom predictions, but we have another thread where Republicans are increasingly willing to admit they want the president to be able to operate without oversight from congress and the courts.

People who simply learned about World War 2 in high school really only studied some key events, then 1942-1945. They seem to have forgotten that the rise of Nazi Germany began a couple of decades before, and growing racial tensions, along with the first world war bankrupting Germany, with increasing support for a dictator, happened very slowly over time. Adolf was even BANNED from ever holding political office at one point, but his party supported him enough to basically overturn that order. Concentration camps operated for many years before death camps were even opened. Camps that were filled to the brim with Jews, Gays, and other people considered to be "lesser". And what do we have now? Detention facilities being filled to the brim with political prisoners. We know that ICE is even luring migrants over the border solely to capture them and shove them into the "detention facilities" simply to increase the profits of the privately owned prison industry running these "detention facilities" concentration camps.

As mentioned, most high school educated people never got to study the 2-3 decades leading up to world war 2. Personal research and university classes give a much broader picture of the shift of powers in Europe during those decades leading up to WW2, and things are looking frighteningly similar here in the US.

When Trump was first elected, I noticed disturbing trends similar to the years leading up to the rise of the Third Reich. I said they were disturbingly similar, but I wasn't going to be worried that much until we had concentration camps and there was great amounts of open support for implementing Trump as president for life and giving him more power than a president should have. And well... here we are.

[Dhrizzle]

didn't read past the title did you? it goes over how his view is reactionary to his various stooges connection to Ukraine/Russians along with very interesting other connections

This is my fav part of the article and its the Trump administration in a nutshell

This was another quid pro quo for a WH meeting and of course a PR score for Trump to use.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, and putting aside the fact the coal industry needs to be laid to rest, but in essence this quid-pro-quo was working in the interest of American businesses and that's how the office of the president should be used.

[Paranoid Android]

Hannity: Did you ever talk to this guy Lev Parnas?

Devin Nunes: You know it’s possible but I haven’t gone through all my phone records. I don’t really recall that name. https://t.co/NY8PXPdUC9

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1202...081361920?s=19

Don't you hate when that happens? When you forget if you may have talked to a person who is involved in a major investigation.

[Breccia]

Don't you hate when that happens?

I have a different take.

First of all, while I suspect Nunes is lying, if you ask a random person "have you ever talked to (second random person)?" it's quite possible they'll say something like "I don't know". Nunes, being a politician, would be cautious about saying "this never happened" in public regardless of the context.

The issue is Hannity. He surely knows this. Why he'd ever put Nunes on the spot like that is beyond me, considering Hannity is trying like hell to protect Team Trump, not expose them to be the criminals they are. I don't understand why he asked this.

[Beefhammer]

I'm playing devil's advocate here, and putting aside the fact the coal industry needs to be laid to rest, but in essence this quid-pro-quo was working in the interest of American businesses and that's how the office of the president should be used.

No it wasn't The only business it was working for was Trump and his business of staying as president to enrich him, his family and his friends businesses.

Fact, Joe Biden was acting on the behest of the US, and EU to get a corrupt AG removed because he refused to look into well established corruption.
Fact, The company Hunter Biden was on the board of, was investigated and no wrong doings were found.
False narrative that has been debunked, the Joe Biden wanted the corrupt AG to be fired because he was investigating his sons company.
Russian propaganda that has been well established that it came from Putin directly that Ukraine was interfering in the 2016 election.
Fact, Trump on a call asked for a favor of looking into Biden as a condition to release the funding.
Fact, numerous people heard the call and found it to be wrong.
Fact, the whistle blower complaint was made know to the White House and all of a sudden the aid is released without any favor.
Fact, the house has every constitutional right to investigate the POTUS and any member of his cabinet or any member of the SCOTUS if they believe they violated the law.
Fact, getting entrapped by congress was grounds for impeachment on something that had nothing to do with anything.
Fact, Trump committed attempted bribery and extortion. It matter not if the crime fully happened. It was attempted, and that is a crime itself.

If this happened under Obama the right would have been screaming quid pro quo, bribery, and extortion 24/7. Hell it really didn't stop them from saying it often over stupid things that were not impeachable, like bowing too low, mustardgate, and a tan suit.


Just saw the devil's advocate. But my points still stand.

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https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1202...081361920?s=19

Don't you hate when that happens? When you forget if you may have talked to a person who is involved in a major investigation.

Or blatantly lie about a name that has been in the public eye surrounding the exact thing you are a part of. Nunes needs to rot in jail.

[Flarelaine]

Filing a SLAPP lawsuit against a large corporation looks nuts.

One thing I'm curious about is whether a Democratic administration would move against SLAPP lawsuits. Many states already have anti-SLAPP statutes, but lack of federal regulation means they will be around as long as forum shopping is a thing.

Also, "nuts" is just the right thing to say after John Oliver's squirrel piece.

[Dhrizzle]

No it wasn't The only business it was working for was Trump and his business of staying as president to enrich him, his family and his friends businesses.

Fact, Joe Biden was acting on the behest of the US, and EU to get a corrupt AG removed because he refused to look into well established corruption.
Fact, The company Hunter Biden was on the board of, was investigated and no wrong doings were found.
False narrative that has been debunked, the Joe Biden wanted the corrupt AG to be fired because he was investigating his sons company.
Russian propaganda that has been well established that it came from Putin directly that Ukraine was interfering in the 2016 election.
Fact, Trump on a call asked for a favor of looking into Biden as a condition to release the funding.
Fact, numerous people heard the call and found it to be wrong.
Fact, the whistle blower complaint was made know to the White House and all of a sudden the aid is released without any favor.
Fact, the house has every constitutional right to investigate the POTUS and any member of his cabinet or any member of the SCOTUS if they believe they violated the law.
Fact, getting entrapped by congress was grounds for impeachment on something that had nothing to do with anything.
Fact, Trump committed attempted bribery and extortion. It matter not if the crime fully happened. It was attempted, and that is a crime itself.

If this happened under Obama the right would have been screaming quid pro quo, bribery, and extortion 24/7. Hell it really didn't stop them from saying it often over stupid things that were not impeachable, like bowing too low, mustardgate, and a tan suit.


Just saw the devil's advocate. But my points still stand.

I was only talking about the pressure to get Ukraine to buy US coal, not the shady and corrupt stuff to do with investigating Biden.

[Beefhammer]

I was only talking about the pressure to get Ukraine to buy US coal, not the shady and corrupt stuff to do with investigating Biden.

That still falls into helping out a friend. Because you know darned well, he would give no bid contracts to his coal buddies first.

[DocSavageFan]

Ukraine’s actions have nothing to do with whether trump exceeded his authority or committed criminal actions.

You want to talk about Ukraine? Start your own thread. People will be more than happy to tear you down there.

So I shouldn't talk about aspects of this matter that you wish to ignore. The president's opinion regarding Ukraine corruption means nothing to you even though it's at the very heart of the matter. Got it. Protect the fucking echo chamber at all costs.

Unbelievable.

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So they didn't meddle in the elections directly? Cool.

So you now admit that Ukraine did indeed meddle in our 2016 election. Cool.

[Draco-Onis]

So I shouldn't talk about aspects of this matter that you wish to ignore. The president's opinion regarding Ukraine corruption means nothing to you even though it's at the very heart of the matter. Got it. Protect the fucking echo chamber at all costs.

Unbelievable.

Your honor it doesn't matter that I raped her I thought she looked like she was asking for it. The crime is separate from the victim even if Trump was right about Ukraine corruption the way he went about it is a crime, he has official channels and the entire US government. Trump also has the ability as president to declare a change in policy in regards to Ukraine as he did when he decided to give them weapons, he chose to do this he committed the crimes instead.

[Orbitus]

So I shouldn't talk about aspects of this matter that you wish to ignore. The president's opinion regarding Ukraine corruption means nothing to you even though it's at the very heart of the matter. Got it. Protect the fucking echo chamber at all costs.

Unbelievable.

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So you now admit that Ukraine did indeed meddle in our 2016 election. Cool.

He didn't care about their "corruption", unless it pertains to Biden. That is the only thing he talked about in the notes of the transcript that he says is "perfect", even though it shows that he openly bribed them.

And I will go with Mitt Romney over you, and he said he saw no evidence that Ukraine meddled in our election.

We know you lie, so I won't listen to someone that will defend a fucking traitor to this country.

[DocSavageFan]

"We imagine they will speak on the damning evidence, so we will get out first, and deflect... ignoring all the evidence."

Thanks for agreeing that it's deflection, and it's a shame the House GOP keeps trying to deflect for a corrupt racist.

I'll stick to the evidence, you can enjoy those talking points that ignore the evidence.

I NEVER agreed that it's deflection. That's all you and a clear reflection of the twisted alternate reality you live in.

I know it's going to be hard for you...but try thinking beyond simple-minded caricatures.

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He didn't care about their "corruption", unless it pertains to Biden.

That's a lie that's already been debunked. Please do try to keep up.

[Ripster42]

Trump's ignorance and stupidity isn't a good reason to jeopardize US strategic interests. National security should not be subject to the stupidity of the Commander-in-Chief.

It isn't even a legal reason. Our common law system has this thing called a "reasonable person." @cubby Maybe you can help explain what that means in the light of every intelligence agency saying the same thing in concert (russia, not ukraine interfered in the 2016 election) and trump not believing them; and the aid being cleared by DoD officials certifying that ukraine is continuing to make headway on corruption.

So per the article, his "mistrust" was largely the result of Russian narratives that he fully bought into in 2017? And that's still very recent. Because this whole article is basically painting Trump as an idiot falling for Russian propaganda, who let Russian views shape his views on Ukraine.

And you think this helps Trump...how?

And again, the "reasonable person" standard applies here.

[Machismo]

I NEVER agreed that it's deflection. That's all you and a clear reflection of the twisted alternate reality you live in.

I know it's going to be hard for you...but try thinking beyond simple-minded caricatures.

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That's a lie that's already been debunked. Please do try to keep up.

Of course it is, and of course you did. That's all you have been doing.

I agree with you, the GOP in the Senate and House are morally bankrupt, and don't care about the evidence.

[The Royal We]

What has been revealed so far is damning to the entirety of this administration and the GOP in general, and it feels like the tip of a corrupt and idiotic iceberg. While I get it would be political suicide in many places for GOP senators to cross the line against this charlatan I hope 3-4 (looking at Collins, Romney, and Murkowski) at least allow for the full trial to take place in the senate without the suggested partisan tinkering with the rules.

I highly doubt the votes will ever be there to remove him in the senate, but the court of public opinion needs to have the facts laid bare. If this country decides after that to reelect Drumph then we all deserve the precipitous drop into authoritarianism (and what a stupid version it will be).

Now that the impeachment report is out and the stage is about to be set for the trial I plan to write a letter and follow up with a call to my Senator, Rob Portman, asking him(a former lawyer) to at least vote for fair trial rules and to judge the evidence as it is presented. Perhaps hoping for a nugget of morality is beyond wishful thinking, but I have to be able to say I did something during this constitutional crisis.

[Muzjhath]

So I shouldn't talk about aspects of this matter that you wish to ignore. The president's opinion regarding Ukraine corruption means nothing to you even though it's at the very heart of the matter. Got it. Protect the fucking echo chamber at all costs.

Unbelievable.

So, if this is the case. Why didn't he go through the Department of State or the Department of Justice? The official and correct channels for such a move?
Why did he go through "Rudy" and the ambassador to the EU (among others)?

[DocSavageFan]

Of course it is, and of course you did. That's all you have been doing.

I agree with you, the GOP in the Senate and House are morally bankrupt, and don't care about the evidence.

You just can't make up lies fast enough! It's now quite apparent that you just can't help yourself...as this is the world you live in.

[Orbitus]

That's a lie that's already been debunked. Please do try to keep up.

Really? By who? Because the only times he has EVER talked about Ukraine, is about Burisma, Hunter Biden, or Joe Biden.

Please point to me ANYWHERE where he has talked about someone else being corrupt in Ukraine that he was worried about.

Even in the notes of the transcript where he bribes them for a favor, he mentions the Bidens 8 fucking times. Doesn't say anything about anyone else though.

So please, show me where Trump has talked about "corruption", other than the fake bullshit he claims to be corruption with the Bidens.

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You just can't make up lies fast enough! It's now quite apparent that you just can't help yourself...as this is the world you live in.

Says TJ that says that Trump was worried about "corruption" besides the Bidens, even though there is literally no one else he talks about when he is talking about Ukraine.

[Machismo]

You just can't make up lies fast enough! It's now quite apparent that you just can't help yourself...as this is the world you live in.

No need to lie, you and I agree that the GOP in the House and Senate clearly won't convict Trump, no matter what. They have no problem deflecting for a corrupt racist. It's a shame that those GOP politicians refuse to have principles. I agree.

(Note to mods, I'm not saying anything about GOP voters, because I know that people can be banned for saying anything bad about a political group, even if one were to say Nazis are bad, someone may take offense to that. Therefore, I want to make VERY clear, that is not what I'm doing)

[DocSavageFan]

You conclusion is somewhat right.

When United States Intelligence Community is ignored but the Russian deflection conspiracy theory is belived by people like you, then yes the US is screwed.

What is this "Russian deflection conspiracy theory" that I allegedly believe?

Come on. Don't be shy. I can't wait to hear what you have to say!

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No need to lie, you and I agree that the GOP in the House and Senate clearly won't convict Trump, no matter what. They have no problem deflecting for a corrupt racist. It's a shame that those GOP politicians refuse to have principles. I agree.

(Note to mods, I'm not saying anything about GOP voters, because I know that people can be banned for saying anything bad about a political group, even if one were to say Nazis are bad, someone may take offense to that. Therefore, I want to make VERY clear, that is not what I'm doing)

I agree with the bolded. BTW...I love your doublespeak....so Orwellian!