How do you feel about Andrew Yang's UBI of 1,000 a month for every US Adult

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

It's dumb because inflation will render it essentially useless - UBI is an interesting idea, but Yang rides too hard on it being the fix to ALL of our problems, when it barely even scratches the surface.

UBI will only work in a society that isn't super capitalist like ours is - until then, it's a bandaid on a problem that barely does anything.

Inflation went up when Trump became you know what but that was because of Obama fixing the economy, regardless inflation is bound to happen.

[Fahrenheit]

I support, at least in the sense that I think something like it is going to become a necessity in the next decade or two. I don't think it makes sense in 2020, but we should be laying the groundwork for it to be a thing by the 2030s or 2040s.

[Theodarzna]

I'm a big supporter of the idea. For one, banks already invent hundreds of thousands of dollars of money all the time, every loan officer in the country essentially conjures money into existence when they hand out loans to people since its been shown by both the Bank of England and banking researchers that actually nobody makes sure they even have that much money to give out in the first place. So conjuring an extra twelve grand in cash to just helicopter out to citizens isn't that big of a deal. We pretty much already shovel out to many individuals lots of money that didn't exist until a loan officer signed a form.

It also is good for families and your average person. Most people aren't P.M.C Strivers with aspirations to "Rise through the ranks" and such, most people just want a decent and dignified life and don't particularly crave status, school rankings, or to have a serious career that turns much of a profit. Imagine if people could just work any job without worrying if that job can keep a roof over their head or food in their stomach? A whole set of cottage industries could emerge from people who then could devout a lot of time to a craft or passion without having to also work some other fulltime job just to avoid homelessness.

A UBI seems like all upsides and no downsides. Even if some people don't do anything amazing with that, so what? What was threatening them with homelessness going to do? Make them cure cancer?

[zenkai]

I think this is something every democrat should go for. Not only will it lower unemployment because people will want more money but it is a great way for more americans to start investing and saving and let their money grow interest and this will teach them how to better spend their money and also lower poverty and help out with student debt.

I think anyone who supports it failed Economics.

[Machismo]

I'm a big supporter of the idea. For one, banks already invent hundreds of thousands of dollars of money all the time, every loan officer in the country essentially conjures money into existence when they hand out loans to people since its been shown by both the Bank of England and banking researchers that actually nobody makes sure they even have that much money to give out in the first place. So conjuring an extra twelve grand in cash to just helicopter out to citizens isn't that big of a deal. We pretty much already shovel out to many individuals lots of money that didn't exist until a loan officer signed a form.

It also is good for families and your average person. Most people aren't P.M.C Strivers with aspirations to "Rise through the ranks" and such, most people just want a decent and dignified life and don't particularly crave status, school rankings, or to have a serious career that turns much of a profit. Imagine if people could just work any job without worrying if that job can keep a roof over their head or food in their stomach? A whole set of cottage industries could emerge from people who then could devout a lot of time to a craft or passion without having to also work some other fulltime job just to avoid homelessness.

A UBI seems like all upsides and no downsides. Even if some people don't do anything amazing with that, so what? What was threatening them with homelessness going to do? Make them cure cancer?

And who is going to pay for it? Are you going to force people without kids to shoulder an even bigger burden than you already want them to bear? let me know when you can find that $2.5 trillion a year.

[kaelleria]

Poll needs more options...

I don't support Yang's vision of UBI, but I think it could work with more study involved. There hasn't been a large scale test of UBI so I'm not comfortable implementing it nationwide at this time.

[Video Games]

i dont think itll really work for a country our size but im willing to give it a shot depending on who pays for it

[Machismo]

Did a thief or a scammer earn his money just because he managed to get his hands on it?

You are assuming all wealthy people are thieves and/or scammers.

You stated the wealthy did not earn their money. Trying to deflect and dodge with a different question is not much of an answer. This is the epitome of class warfare in order to justify massive wealth redistribution. One would hope you had learned of the cautionary tales of the Bolsheviks, and the ensuing bloodshed and strife.

There's a reason people hate socialists and communists. They always want to take other people's shit, and love to use violence to get it.

Speaking of thieves and scammers...

[Machismo]

Every historian will tell you that great philosophical, moral and legal changes have a known cost attached: blood.

Blood is the price of progress.

It seems a bit morally bankrupt to preach peace when you stand on the shoulders of the bloodied giants and strife of history.

Yes, I love watching authoritarians try and justify violence. Stalin did it, Mao did it, Hitler did it.

It's amazing how easily people can rationalize violence and oppression, when they want someone else's shit.

[Theodarzna]

Every historian will tell you that great philosophical, moral and legal changes have a known cost attached: blood.

Blood is the price of progress.

It seems a bit morally bankrupt to preach peace when you stand on the shoulders of the bloodied giants and strife of history.

In the case of Banks they literally just conjure money into thin air, loan it out and expect it to be given back to them at interest for money they didn't even have to loan out.

As for your point on bloody history, you are 100% correct. Preaching peace once you've genocided your way to world empire status is hollow.

[Machismo]

Democrats and anti-authoritarians did it too.

Democrats and Republicans have done it, plenty. If an anti-authoritarian had done it, then that would mean that they aren't actually an anti-authoritarian... wouldn't it?

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In the case of Banks they literally just conjure money into thin air, loan it out and expect it to be given back to them at interest for money they didn't even have to loan out.

As for your point on bloody history, you are 100% correct. Preaching peace once you've genocided your way to world empire status is hollow.

Great, show which forms of genocide I'm one to support.

Of the two of us, I'm not the one who has called for genocide, ethnic cleansing, and the systematic oppression of an indigenous people.

[Machismo]

I don't know about genocide, but in this thread you were the first one to "threaten" violence.

I'm well aware though if anyone would dare to attempt some form of peaceful wealth redistribution that was a bit too successful there would be immediate explosions of violence by those wielding the wealth and influence at the time. I would be very much in favor of it all going down peacefully, but it won't... there will be violence, there will be deceit, backstabbing and lots and lots of blood just because those who yield too much power, wealth and influence will react irresponsibly when they are asked peacefully to hand some of it over.

Where exactly did I threaten violence? Considering this entire thread is about forcefully taking money from others, I'm going to call bullshit on that one. After all, I'm not the one who started the thread.

Let me know when you can show I'm the first one calling for violence.

And how the hell does one plan on peaceful wealth redistribution. Whenever someone posts bullshit like that, I have but one question:

What if they resist?

[PC2]

It doesn't include children which is nonsensical...

In any case first world countries typically have a budget to person ratio of around $10k, so regardless of how you slice up the pie there's a highly limited amount of money to distribute. The simple arithmetic of it all isn't anything to get excited about.

[Greyvax]

The only people who would support UBI are NEETs and poor people. No sane person thinks a UBI would be good for an average middle class worker (who will almost certainly be affected most by the tax required to support UBI).

[Theodarzna]

And who is going to pay for it? Are you going to force people without kids to shoulder an even bigger burden than you already want them to bear? let me know when you can find that $2.5 trillion a year.

Reread the post. Other than a VAT, the savings from not needing so much means tested welfare, that has already been solved.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Andrew Yang is a millionaire is that the definition of poor

[Machismo]

What happens when people resist arrest?



You were referring back to the "lessons of the past, the bolsheviks, the bloodshed," etc. to me that came across as an indirect threat of violence, willfully or not.

I'm pointing out that you are the Bolsheviks. I'm not threatening violence, or calling for it. i'm saying that's what you are doing.

Wealth redistribution is going to be violent, and that's exactly what you want.

[Machismo]

Reread the post. Other than a VAT, the savings from not needing so much means tested welfare, that has already been solved.

Except, it hasn't been solved... not by a long shot. This is worse than Bernie's fake math when pushing his health care plan several years ago.

[Theodarzna]

Ive never seen someone fundamentally misunderstand economics on this level, well at the same time encouraging violence. Hopefully you extremists are able to be stopped before throwing us back into an era of war.

Except, it hasn't been solved... not by a long shot. This is worse than Bernie's fake math when pushing his health care plan several years ago.

Actually I've got it down fairly well. As well the Bank of England confirmed the fact that banks do indeed create money out of thin air while giving out loans as no bank actually uses their current cash on hand to justify a loan, they simply will the money into existence and then charge interest and expect repayment on money conjured out of thin air.

Money is created out of thin air when banks lend to their customers.

Lending that creates deposits, and not saving that does.

Saving is not a pre-condition of lending, or as a result of growth.

Given these facts Yang could just declare every American a Bank of some minor classification, and that we all simply gave a 12k loan to the government and the Government is merely paying us back at zero interest.

[Sorshen]

I think Yang means well, but he's like 20-30 years too early for this concept.
He doesn't stand a chance, even if the general population and economists support it.

Should start with laying a foundation to make this possible in the future - outlaw lobbying and fight back at the corporate grip over lawmakers/executive branch.