Why are there no new classes in Shadowlands?!

[Mad_Murdock]

Let the devs give the already existing classes a full scope to see their weaknesses and strong points instead of adding, yet another broken 2 button class to be turned on a fricking resource spender class.

What classes are only 2 buttons? I'd like to play those.

While I don't overly care if we get new classes or races most of the time. I also don't really see the problem with getting a new class\race. I've played in TBC, and there has always been complaints to nerf class X, because it's too strong in raid or PvP. So whether we have 5 classes and 5 specs or 20 classes and 150 specs, there is always going to be a group somewhere complain their class (but really spec) is too weak compared to whatever other classes beats them in the meters that week.

I am person that prefers lots of choices over little choice.

[Relapses]

What classes are only 2 buttons? I'd like to play those.

While I don't overly care if we get new classes or races most of the time. I also don't really see the problem with getting a new class\race. I've played in TBC, and there has always been complaints to nerf class X, because it's too strong in raid or PvP. So whether we have 5 classes and 5 specs or 20 classes and 150 specs, there is always going to be a group somewhere complain their class (but really spec) is too weak compared to whatever other classes beats them in the meters that week.

I am person that prefers lots of choices over little choice.

I get that, but there's a slippery slope there. You say you like a lot of choice but how much choice is too much choice? 40 class/specs? 60? 200? I think if you asked 100 different people this question, you'd get 100 different answers. That's why developers have the ability to just step in and say... "Eh. 36 is enough for now."

[Niwes]

As the title says, why are we not getting a new class. The way expansions worked in the past has been quite consistant.

Vanilla - all original classes and races
BC - New races
Wrath - New class
Cata - New races
MoP - Both new class and race
WoD - nothing due to MoP offering both
Legion - New class
End of Legion, Almost all of BFA - New races.

In keeping with tradition, we should be getting either a new class or both a class and race. I wonder what gives. I did see a youtube video where someone alluded to a new class (necromancer) but I think that is doubtful. Does anyone else think there might or might not be a new race for a specific reason. I personally wanted a new class but I know that an overhaul of the current classes and leveling is more important. Let me know what yall think.

because it costs effort/money? besides that, they have just to handle balancing with 2 more specs and have to pack the next class on the same pattern (builder/spender) into a new style form. same shit different theme. just to make around maybe 15% of players happy, after 2-3 months (because this is the amount of ppl playing that new class). i would trade a better game (design) every fukin day for that shit.

[Zyky]

Struggles how?

Balance is all over the place. Shadow Priests have been consistently ahead for several months(not to mention how many times they've been the top spec since Emerald Nightmare) while being nerfed multiple times, some specs are struggling heavily because of the lack of synergy with Essences(think Frost vs Fire Mages where Fire is averaging 8k higher than Frost overall in Eternal Palace just because of busted synergy with Lucid Dreams), some specs get ignored for a long period of time like Feral for the first couple tiers where they struggled.

PvP balance is even worse, a large chunk of team comps have been running Destro Locks since the first season this expansion just because of how they can literally one shot anyone with decent rng. Last season Prot Warrior was making a contention place for high end arena, this season it's Guardian Druid. There's a huge problem in PvP when a tank spec is doing significantly better than the majority of the DPS specs for Elite level play.

Blizzard just hasn't nailed how to balance classes, which is fine, but then shouldn't be adding more to the workload when they're already struggling.

[arkanon]

I get that, but there's a slippery slope there.

Slippery slope is a complete fallacy.

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Have you played a Shadow Priest in the last three years?

^{i'm only half joking}

Are you suggesting they are OP or bad?

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Balance is all over the place.

Not for the majority of players it isnt. When you take out cutting edge progression, which is an insignificant percentage of the player-base, the discrepancies you are talking about are negligible. And most data supports that. Classes that see little play at EXTREMELY hi M+ keys are over represented in mid range keys. Tanks that see little play during the world first race and the few weeks after are extremely highly represented in normal / heroic.

[Relapses]

Slippery slope is a complete fallacy.

Okay? I said "a bit of a slippery slope," then provided a clear example with a question. I agree, in critical thinking slippery slopes should be avoided... but I was asking a more broad question about where people would feel like too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

Are you suggesting they are OP or bad?

Both? But also neither? Warning: Opinion ahead: They've gone from OP and awful to play (S2M) to garbage and awful to play (Nighthold) to OP and fun to play (ToS/Argus) to OP and okay to play (BoD and I guess EP) to okay and okay to play (Uldir). It's been a bumpy ride and I for one would like to get off Mr. Blizzard's Wild Ride.

[Egomaniac]

As the title says, why are we not getting a new class. The way expansions worked in the past has been quite consistant.

Vanilla - all original classes and races
BC - New races
Wrath - New class
Cata - New races
MoP - Both new class and race
WoD - nothing due to MoP offering both
Legion - New class
End of Legion, Almost all of BFA - New races.

In keeping with tradition, we should be getting either a new class or both a class and race. I wonder what gives. I did see a youtube video where someone alluded to a new class (necromancer) but I think that is doubtful. Does anyone else think there might or might not be a new race for a specific reason. I personally wanted a new class but I know that an overhaul of the current classes and leveling is more important. Let me know what yall think.

As you already pointed...they broke the "pattern" with MoP and WoD. Also, technically, BC offered new classes...because Paladin and Shaman were previously faction locked. And Cata opened up new Race/Class options. And Shadowlands is also opening up new Race/Class options.

[arkanon]

Okay? I said "a bit of a slippery slope," then provided a clear example with a question. I agree, in critical thinking slippery slopes should be avoided... but I was asking a more broad question about where people would feel like too much of a good thing is a bad thing.



Both? But also neither? Warning: Opinion ahead: They've gone from OP and awful to play (S2M) to garbage and awful to play (Nighthold) to OP and fun to play (ToS/Argus) to OP and okay to play (BoD and I guess EP) to okay and okay to play (Uldir). It's been a bumpy ride and I for one would like to get off Mr. Blizzard's Wild Ride.

I only ask because someone said they are really OP, and yet others say they are terrible and broken.

[Relapses]

I only ask because someone said they are really OP, and yet others say they are terrible and broken.

If my heavily opinionated post is any indication, it's a bit of Column A and a bit of Column B. The fact that it's so inconsistent and polarizing is part of the issue. It wasn't much better in WoD/MoP but it was far more consistent.

[Oakshana]

Blizzard: *doesn't do something*

Community: There goes Blizzard listening to the wrong parts of the community again.

Blizzard: *does something*

Community: There goes Blizzard listening to the wrong parts of the community again.

Yep. Standard community circlejerk. It defies logic.

[Ravingmad]

Just revamp Survival Hunter to have a Tinker component, and Boom!.... Tinkerer. Change the name, spells effects and you get the same result. Melee, using gadget and turret/bots instead of snakes/mongoose and animal stuff and your good to go.
Make Unholy DK more minion focussed, it is already, but tune them down and have more and boom, necromancer. Change diseases to debuff instead of damage and there you go. Have fun managing your zoo.

You cant always bring every classes to a raid and its a shame, so I dont see why more would be better. Most of the niche class/spells from Warcraft are in WoW, one way or another. Anything related to the necromancer went to the DK, for example. Do we need more tank (6/12 classes) when only 2 are required? Ranged (6/12 classes)? Or even MORE melee (9/12 classes)? More healers (5/12 classes)? At this point I think were fine. With 36 specs we have plenty of options, adding more would just create more imbalance, nerfs, etc. I think we reached a point where we kinda "capped" the number of classes possible to make the game as viable as possible.

[Dastreus]

Whoa, what a roller-coaster of logic! I hope you did some stretches before typing that out.

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What did Monk strip abilities from?

That's the point. Monk stripped from Shaman (windwalker is the name of a kind of shaman, and it's literally just a punchy shaman). And people didn't care much but then Demon Hunter stole from Warlock and people lost it. If they did that again for another class it'll be a shit storm.

[Elkfingers]

That's the point. Monk stripped from Shaman (windwalker is the name of a kind of shaman, and it's literally just a punchy shaman). And people didn't care much but then Demon Hunter stole from Warlock and people lost it. If they did that again for another class it'll be a shit storm.

Even if windwalker='punchy shaman' (which seems like a big 'ol straw grasp), I fail to see how in any material sense that would mean that Monk stripped Shaman of any abilities.

DHs got Meta. People had a fit, but it hardly means that any new class would just be cobbled together from other classes' assets. Legit, people love to blow stuff out of proportion on here.

[tankbug]

Opinion =/= fact.

What is fun is of course subjective, and not in the realm of absolute truths. I have no idea why you found it necessary to point that out.

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they should first fix existing classes and then think about adding new ones.. it's not even about balance its about the fact that class design right now is in shambles, literally the worst it's ever been

Sure, if the classes are not fun, adding one more won't fix anything. I was only referring to the priority of tuning the numbers to be perfect instead of making classes and specs feel unique, and add more of them.

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Preach it mother fucker, preach so the whole world can hear! looord have mercy on us, for let us have the game that is fun, the classes that are unique, and the raids that are a blast, smite upon these sinners who complain when one spec does 1% more damage then the other. Bring upon us what the lord and savior hots is, returning to the world of fun, and removing the need to be "perfectly balanced esport ready"

I actually agree with the content of your mockery. WoW was never a successful esport, and I wouldnt mind seeing Blizzard putting those resources to better use.

[justandulas]

Creative bankruptcy?

They should have put in a necromancer class for sure but this dev team lacks the talent and imagination to pull it off

[Marrilaife]

What is fun is of course subjective, and not in the realm of absolute truths. I have no idea why you found it necessary to point that out.

Assumption that everything new is fun by default was the most far fetched idea I've seen so I had to point it out. There's plenty of features WOW had that were "new for the sake of new" and a lot of people hated it.

Another problem is when you introduce something that stays forever, like class, race or profession, it can be "fun because new" for a couple of weeks, then lose its luster but the consequences of implementing and maintaining it drag behind for years to come.

You can scrap garrisons or warfronts by just not continuing them next expansion, if people's reactions and feedback were more negative than positive. You can never scrap a class, and reworking it to be something completely different will have a lot of pushback too, see survival hunter and demo lock, or even splitting feral druids into feral + guardian.

[deviantcultist]

Why you ask? Because Blizz has convinced the sheep that they can afford to "fix" what they should have fixed in BfA as a feature instead of a new class or a refreshing feature.

Just look at how many will jump at you for asking for features in a paid expansion and argue that "fixing" is a formidable excuse for not getting enough.

[Coldfire989]

Didn’t they come right out and say that no classes jumped out at them that made sense for the XPac?

[Marrilaife]

Just look at how many will jump at you for asking for features in a paid expansion and argue that "fixing" is a formidable excuse for not getting enough.

I really don't get these complains. Every expansion has new content - new zones, questlines, reps, dungeons, raids, profession recipes, items to collect, etc.

Why do we need to get new "features" that are often stealing the development time from other parts of the game, or actually making game less fun because they're put left right and center of that expansion?

Good if that feature doesn't harm the main game, and you can ignore it, like pet battles. Bad, when the whole expansion revolves around it, like garrisons in wod, or when that feature is constantly pushed to the forefront, like island expeditions or invasions. Or when we have to deal with 2 expansions of AP farming that barely anyone finds fun.

If I go to McDonalds to eat burgers, I really don't care for them to develop the ice cream section, and definitely will be pissed if that development is at the expense of the quality or price of served burgers.

Personally I play every expansion to level up, do dungeons and raids, and don't want to be bogged down by artificial grinds created only to add more busywork that 90% of casuals will ignore anyway and all it's gonna be is another burden upon raiders, another hoop to jump through.

QoL features? Sure. Let's see how AH revamp pans out, and the guild finder could definitely use some improvements too. Guild wars 2 recently implemented build templates and I thought that would be cool, never again have to remember if you picked all the correct talents for a dungeon, raid boss or arena setup. Or how about a noticeboard so people don't have to spam trade every 5 mins with their offers? Yes, we have AH but that doesn't offer any voice to a buyer, or to a seller what wants to sell a service not an item.

Plus I don't know how nobody really cares about the new character customizations we're getting or the new cosmetic wings / other frills we can get from covenants, which is something majority of the playerbase can enjoy while new class or race is only used by the people who actually play it, for example MOP added monks and pandas but a lot of people didn't like their aesthetics so I guess they were out of luck?

[Titebiere83]

Why would they add a new class so you can complain about, when they can not add one and have you complain anyway.

Now seriously, adding a class just for the sake of saying "hey we added a new class, fuck you" does not do any good. Besides, we have enough classes, I doubt that you're playing them all.

And what if they added a new class and it wasn't something you'd like? Like for example I don't give a crap about monks, I absolutely dislike everything about them.

I find monk extremely out of place in wow.