Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Using the force can be done, completely untrained, by a child. Using the force WELL, in a deterministic manner, requires some amount of training.

She's doing things that other jedi have been shown to need training to accomplish. Even Anakin(THE CHOSEN ONE!) got smoked by Dooku in their first duel, despite Anakin being trained for years in lightsaber combat. Rey, on the other hand, just gets to beat Kylo in a similar duel because she remembers the force even exists. Granted, Kylo is not on the same level of duelist as Dooku, but he's still been training since childhood. Whereas Rey only picked up a lightsaber for the first time a week(?) before.

And it's important here that Luke said that both Kylo and Rey have similar strength in the force. If that's equal, then the training should make the difference. YEARS of training.

And I think that's where most of the complaints about Rey come from. She's doing a LOT of things(force related or otherwise) that would normally require a lot of training. Only she has no references in the actual story for how she's doing them without it. Some can be handwaved away with "she's strong in the force". But others don't have any real explanation.

The fight between Rey and kylo is nothing at all like the fight between duku and anakin. Before the fight kylo is extremely injured by chewy and then takes another hit by Finn. Kylo also has a poor grip on the force due to his current state of mind not being able to properly use the light or dark side as snoke says killing Han split him to his close.

Those two fights are no where near comparable and the only way some one could think they are is if they just didn’t watch the movies at all.

[RobertoCarlos]

The only character that is semi interesting out of all the new movies is kylo ren.

Rey, finn, poe, snoke are all forgettable crap.

Thier side stories don't even connect or feel revelent

[Endus]

Abrams is dismissive of this. He thinks that movies and TV show explain too much and that his works are better for the imagination that the mystery of not knowing provides. For that he eschews what he sees as "infodumps" or clear explanations.

I agree with his sentiment, but he uses it the wrong way.

The author needs to know the explanation, they don't need to write it out. That ensures the author has a rational basis to remain consistent with.

For instance: Rey's parents. If they knew who they were before filming TFA, whether they're someone or nobodies, you can do whatever moving forward around that; the audience only has to be told when/if it matters to the narrative.

If you, the author, don't have that figured out when it matters to her character, that's shitty writing. I agree Abrams does this. I just agree with the idea that infodumping is also "bad". Only write what matters to the narrative, in that moment. But you should have definitive answers for all the questions you choose not to answer.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

"It's magic!"

Bullshit Excuse for Shitty Writing #1 more like.
Just because fantasy elements exist in the setting doesn't mean they don't need adhere to their own internal consistency.

The internal consistency holds true Rey is just like Luke or anakin Who are super powerful for no reason other then the force wants to be that way.

[BeepBoo]

IDK. I prefer my world building like Tolkein stuff. Biggest gripe I ALWAYS have is a lack of explanation of expansion on things. Every world should have Silmarillion levels of world building and thought before the author ever even considers writing a story in that world.

Like you say, Endus, at the very least, the AUTHOR should know all of this stuff and have it written/tracked somewhere, even if they don't reveal all to the audience.

The internal consistency holds true Rey is just like Luke or anakin Who are super powerful for no reason other then the force wants to be that way.

I'll choose to exercise my freedom of thought when it comes to deciding what is shitty writing and what is too powerful based on the rest of my perception of the universe. The character of Rey is shitty. You cannot provide a reason I'll accept to change my mind, and that likely applies to other people who think she sucks, so please, stop trying.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I left the word "sanctioned" out for the same reason I left all the other definitions out. They didn't fit the usage.

You may notice there's an 'or' there. That means either is applicable.

Canon: "a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works."

This equals:
A sanctioned group or body of related works.
OR (wait for it)
An accepted group or body of related works.

That's what the word OR does for you. It means you don't need both, you can use either and the statement is still true. Logic 101. And because we aren't saying our head canon is "sanctioned" I wouldn't use that definition. That would be ridiculous. I'm saying everyone's head canon is accepted. If by no one else, by the person who's head it is in.

You act like "or sanctioned" in there changes this, when it doesn't. So you wondered why I left it out. Now you know. I was hoping to not have to go over basic grammar and how words work, but alas, you forced my hand and here an am doing it anyway.

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Probably B. 0-10 or even a 1-5. I like C, but often when pollsters use phrases they often uses phrases not applicable to many users, leaving no completely true answers, so those make me nervous.

B sounds good. I asked because with Captain Marvel and a thread on Sylvanas, there were literal bots spamming the negative choices in the polls until the mods stepped in and deleted their accounts.

[RobertoCarlos]

The internal consistency holds true Rey is just like Luke or anakin Who are super powerful for no reason other then the force wants to be that way.

Maybe people are bored of hearing about the same inbred magical skywalker family like star wars isnt any bigger than this one family like they are the damn royals or something

[Malaky]

The internal consistency holds true Rey is just like Luke or anakin Who are super powerful for no reason other then the force wants to be that way.

I can't comprehend how you can be this disingenuous. No shame whatsoever in bald faced lies no matter how blatant.

Luke and Anakin trained years to become that strong.

[Wewlad]

Really? Luke grew up being taken care of by his Aunt and Uncle. Rey had to take care of herself. It's weird you guys ignore the most basic shit in these films.

And that makes no sense yet you can't fucking realize that despite posting it. Quit trying to trip off your own snarkiness.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'll choose to exercise my freedom of thought when it comes to deciding what is shitty writing and what is too powerful based on the rest of my perception of the universe. The character of Rey is shitty. You cannot provide a reason I'll accept to change my mind, and that likely applies to other people who think she sucks, so please, stop trying.

I agree that Rey is a shitty character but every thing she does force wise other then the mind trick is easily explained within the Starwars universe. If you want to ignore the actual universe and go off your own fanfic go ahead but I’ll keep pointing it out.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Maybe people are bored of hearing about the same inbred magical skywalker family like star wars isnt any bigger than this one family like they are the damn royals or something

God knows I am. I was really hoping they would Keep going with the kill the past thing instead they brought back grandpa palp which is really lame to me.

[Malaky]

The Mandalorian has (spoiler but I bet everyone knows) a baby of Yoda's species lift a giant rhino-beast. A baby! And I haven't heard any complaints about it. But lifting some rocks? Oh! The heresy!

We know nothing of the Yoda species so it stands to reasonable possibility that stuff like that comes naturally to their infants, who knows.

We do, however, know a lot about humans and how the Force works within them.
Nobody's asking for "magical" stuff not to happen, but stick to the internal consistency you previously established, don't hip-hop between one thing and the other on a whim.

In the first case the rules are not set, in the second, they are.
It's a matter of narrative.
Glad I could be of help.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I can't comprehend how you can be this disingenuous. No shame whatsoever in bald faced lies no matter how blatant.

Luke and Anakin trained years to become that strong.

We went over this before they didn’t train at all to become that strong they trained to have better mastery in the force like all Jedi do. Training has nothing to do with strength just how they use the force:

[Wewlad]

The mind trick is because she knew it was possible. Nobody taught Luke how to force pull but he certainly used it in that Wampa’s cave.

You have to be fucking kidding me.

"It doesn't matter that Luke was trained by Obi-Wan, because we didn't see him formally learn about a basic move it's all bunk."

"It makes complete sense that Rey, with no training, can instantly counter a mind probe because she heard about it.

And the "minimal training" quote, seeing Luke be trained by both Obi-Wan and Yoda, though incomplete is not minimal. You disingenuous POS.

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How does it make no sense that her life was more hardship than Luke’s? Luke was literally a whiny spoiled kid at the beginning of ANH, Rey was an orphan living in wreckage who was barely able to get food... basic logic bud. Use it.

It makes no sense that she did so with little indication of how. She got dropped off as a little girl and we just have to assume it turned out all right.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The mind trick is because she knew it was possible. Nobody taught Luke how to force pull but he certainly used it in that Wampa’s cave.

I get that there’s an in novel explanation but it just doesn’t sit right with me but that could just be because I haven’t read any of the novelizations and it’s been so long since I’ve read a Starwars novel that I only remember the zombie ones.

[RobertoCarlos]

But she's not really competent and not really proactive about it. On the contrary, she seems to struggle when she consciously wants to connect with the Force, and when she does, she has some problems controling it. She almost destroys the cliff where Luke and her are training when she connects with the Force. The Force comes to her far more easily when she is in danger and dire need of it. It seems to be more of an instinct than anything. Like Aang in A:TLA who could enter the Avatar state when in need but couldn't do it willingly before his training with Guru Patik.

The Mandalorian has (spoiler but I bet everyone knows) a baby of Yoda's species lift a giant rhino-beast. A baby! And I haven't heard any complaints about it. But lifting some rocks? Oh! The heresy!

It's almost like one of those things is a species we know very little about and the only other character of the species was one of the most powerful force users with yoda and the other one was on the jedi counsel so presumably was also strong in the force. Force sensitive super rare alien type doesn't seem like a ass pull like kid stuck on planet so is good at stuff

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We know nothing of the Yoda species so it stands to reasonable possibility that stuff like that comes naturally to their infants, who knows.

We do, however, know a lot about humans and how the Force works within them.
Nobody's asking for "magical" stuff not to happen, but stick to the internal consistency you previously established, don't hip-hop between one thing and the other on a whim.

In the first case the rules are not set, in the second, they are.
It's a matter of narrative.
Glad I could be of help.

There are no set rules on how humans use the force As the only humans we follow are anakin Luke and Rey who are all top tier force users above literally every one else human or not.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I haven’t read any novels since the Yuuzhan Vong Legends series. I got it from the movie... she clearly had heard stories about the Jedi and their abilities.

Ah then Mabye I just don’t remember that part of the movie.

[Malaky]

We went over this before they didn’t train at all to become that strong they trained to have better mastery in the force like all Jedi do. Training has nothing to do with strength just how they use the force:

Fine, let's say you're right. I don't think you are and consider your interpretation mere fanfic, but let's say it is.

How did Rey acquire this "mastery" you speak about without any training, tutoring or else?
How does she pull feat after feat that any other human jedi needed years of understanding and practicing the force to accomplish?

[Wewlad]

Luke had a few hours of sense training from obi-wan before he was killed genius. The mind probe defense is instinctive and many force-sensitives have displayed that ability in canon. Yoda barely trained Luke at all as he left to fight Vader, and that was after he magically developed force abilities he was never trained in. You’re just pissed it was a girl instead of a boy, admit it.

"In canon", where in the films? I don't care about novelizations or whatever—where in the films is this said/shown? Luke is taught the fundamental ideas of the Force by Obi-Wan in addition to the sense training. And of course you turn to accusing me of being gender-biased after the asspulls because that's all you've got.