Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Oladbdoug]

Yea love this game

Spam isn't allowed. Infracted.

[Sunseeker]

See the Clone Wars series and Rebels.

So in short, not much.

[Jastall]

Fuck freaking no.
"In essence" they're at complete opposites.
One suffers and grows from it, fails and stands back up. The other just... wins. Every time.

Yeah, Luke sure grew from his suffering when he oneshot the Death Star because muh Force was with him. And when, after Vader beat him down, he found a metal hand somewhere that in no way hampers his abilities and indeed wins the next bout.

Tell yourself what you want. Rey is Luke with tits. The character archetype and surrounding stories are purposefully identical.

[Nefarious Tea]

Yeah, Luke sure grew from his suffering when he oneshot the Death Star because muh Force was with him. And when, after Vader beat him down, he found a metal hand somewhere that in no way hampers his abilities and indeed wins the next bout.

Tell yourself what you want. Rey is Luke with tits. The character archetype and surrounding stories are purposefully identical.

Except not? There’s supposed to be five years between ANH and ROTJ. Like also always learns from his failures, but Rey has never had a failure to learn from.

[Malaky]

Yoda has already been linked in the thread you going on about "what he really meant was" is fanfic you made up.

Lol, you keep falling into the same pitfall.

What you did is link Yoda's words. That's where it ends.
Then comes your personal interpretation of what those words meant.
Your fault is treating said interpretation as ultimate truth.

I disagree, and told you what those words mean instead in my opinion. You still have to address that in any mature or adult manner.

I've also already linked you examples of advanced force use with no training in the old and new canon and you just say they don't count which is more fanfic.

Actually that's more dismissal for not being based off the source material.
At this point I wonder if you even know what a fanfic is, you seem to be throwing the term casually and nonsensically a lot.

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It's almost like not every jedi has the same amount of power in the force, its almost like anakin luke and rey were all more powerful then yoda and palp with far far less training.

....see what I meant when saying you can no longer distinguish between your headcanon and reality.
In what movie were Anakin, Luke or Rey shown to be more powerful than Yoda and Palp? None.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Except not? There’s supposed to be five years between ANH and ROTJ. Like also always learns from his failures, but Rey has never had a failure to learn from.

Luke didn't fail during A New Hope and spent most of Empire failing. He only starts to regain his momentum in the gap between the end of Empire and the start of Jedi.

Give Rey the same chance to learn from the events of Last Jedi. She may have become stronger with the force during the course of that movie, but she also failed to resist the call of the dark, failed to save Kylo from himself, and watched her master die because she wasn't able to turn Kylo back. I'm not sure how people think that Rey never failed during the course of The Last Jedi.

[Jastall]

Except not? There’s supposed to be five years between ANH and ROTJ. Like also always learns from his failures, but Rey has never had a failure to learn from.

? She may succeed a lot during TFA, but that's because it's a shot for shot reshoot of ANH- where Luke also doesn't fail I would add, quite the contrary, he saves the princess, gets out of the Death Star and blows it up himself. In Empire he gets manhandled, but Rey also fails at pretty much everything she sets out to do in TLJ. The only one in that movie who actually ends in a better position than he starts is Kylo Ren, who even then fails to end the Resistance. So I don't really see any difference, no.

[MachoSasquatcho]

? She may succeed a lot during TFA, but that's because it's a shot for shot reshoot of ANH- where Luke also doesn't fail I would add, quite the contrary, he saves the princess, gets out of the Death Star and blows it up himself. In Empire he gets manhandled, but Rey also fails at pretty much everything she sets out to do in TLJ. The only one in that movie who actually ends in a better position than he starts is Kylo Ren, who even then fails to end the Resistance. So I don't really see any difference, no.

If you want to get to technical Luke doesn't blow up the Death Star all by himself he receives timely assists from both Obi Wan, Han Solo & his other Xwing Squadmates who die in the trench.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Lol, you keep ragging on falling into the same pitfall.

All you did is link Yoda's vague words. That's where it ends.
Where the fanfic starts, is your interpretation of what that vagueness means.
Your fault, treating said interpretation as ultimate truth.

I disagree, and told you what those words mean instead in my opinion. You still have to address that in any mature or adult manner.

following the canon explanations given by characters in universe is not fan fic, trying to twist the explanation because you don't like what it means how ever is.

Actually that's more dismissal for not being based off the source material.
At this point I wonder if you even know what a fanfic is, you seem to be throwing the term casually and nonsensically a lot.

Both the EU and the new canon are based off the source material of the OT and both give a further understanding of how the force work.

In what movie were Anakin, Luke or Rey shown to be more powerful than Yoda and Palp? None.

....See what I mean when I say you can no longer distinguish between your headcanon and reality.

Starwars isn't limited to the movie's. reality is that there are other sources of canon which events take place, I have no headcanon as I go off of the actual canon and whats actually real to the universe while you make stuff up and dismiss any thing that doesn't agree with you.

[Malaky]

following the canon explanations given by characters in universe is not fan fic, trying to twist the explanation because you don't like what it means how ever is.

And head down into the pitfall again.

In neither the second nor third movie Yoda ever explains anything.

All he does is give Luke cryptical words of encouragement to help him succeed.
Words open to interpretation, of which yours is no more valid than mine.

Both the EU and the new canon are based off the source material of the OT and both give a further understanding of how the force work.

Fanfictions are also based off the source material, that doesn't make them gospel. At best, they're possibilities.

[Logwyn]

But Luke did so over 3 Movies, which span 4 years. Rey undergoes this entire process in... a week?

Oddly enough there are people in the world that picked up a hammer for the first time and were able to hammer that nail in just fine. Or just read a book really quick and then build a house or composed a song.

Why is it not possible for something, in this case, Rey to be a savant in how the force works and just be a really gifted force user that does not need training like everyone else. Why can't there be force users that can do the same?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And head down into the pitfall again.

In neither the second nor third movie Yoda ever explains anything.

All he does is give Luke cryptical words of encouragement to help him succeed.
Words open to interpretation, of which yours is no more valid than mine.



Fanfictions are also based off the source material, that doesn't make them gospel. At best, they're possibilities.

"its only different in your mind, you must unlearn what you have learned" Totally not an explanation.

fanfic is also not part of the canon of a universe officially recognized and pulled from when making material in that universe. As i said in my last post the reality is that starwar's isn't limited to the movies any other opinion is headcanon.

[Malaky]

Why is it not possible for something, in this case, Rey to be a savant in how the force works and just be a really gifted force user that does not need training like everyone else. Why can't there be force users that can do the same?

Because 1) it's cheap 2) it's boring 3) it's unappealing 4) it's what all Mary Sue do.

[Nefarious Tea]

Luke didn't fail during A New Hope and spent most of Empire failing. He only starts to regain his momentum in the gap between the end of Empire and the start of Jedi.

Give Rey the same chance to learn from the events of Last Jedi. She may have become stronger with the force during the course of that movie, but she also failed to resist the call of the dark, failed to save Kylo from himself, and watched her master die because she wasn't able to turn Kylo back. I'm not sure how people think that Rey never failed during the course of The Last Jedi.

Luke spends all of ANH getting bailed out by Obi Wan, Leia, and Han.

Rey literally saves the day in TLJ... what little was left to save, anyway. She leaves of her own accord from Ach-to after somehow beating Luke in single combat, and the only thing she actually fails at is keeping Kylo from getting Anakon’s lightsaber, and that’s only because it exploded so no one wins there.

The only possible failing you could see her having is that she doesn’t even realize she’s falling to the dark side because she’s too busy being essentially godlike in the Force to listen to anyone.

[Logwyn]

Because 1) it's cheap 2) it's boring 3) it's unappealing 4) it's what all Mary Sue do.

I'd say that Rey has a large and huge glaring weakness.

[Malaky]

"its only different in your mind, you must unlearn what you have learned" Totally not an explanation.

It isn't. At all.
In fact it's kinda baffling you think this explains anything.

This sort of speech is just the usual thing the military does when breaking down a civilian so he can be trained anew into a soldier, it's not an explanation.

fanfic is also not part of the canon of a universe officially recognized and pulled from when making material in that universe. As i said in my last post the reality is that starwar's isn't limited to the movies any other opinion is headcanon.

Spare me about the whole "recognized canon" or not.
I saw what they did to Revan.

Only the original authors matter in dictating what is or isn't. Only the original movies count.

[eschatological]

The main skip in the OT is between ANH and ESB, iirc. Before Luke got any training. But he managed a Force Pull just by listening to Ghost Obi Wan in his head. In ANH, he instinctually blocked the probe blasts with the blast shields down on his helmet with a literal one line instruction from Obi Wan.

They don't specify how much time passes between ESB and RotJ, but seeing as Luke gets his feeling at the end of ESB, and misses Han getting frozen by a few minutes, he gets a new hand, and then the opening scene of RotJ is them rescuing Han, which they would probably do fairly quickly? I suppose it would take, yanno, an hour to come up with the great plan of Leia dressing up as a bounty hunter and bringing in Chewie, so the gap would probably the time it takes to go from Bespin to Tattooine.

And yet Luke's character completely changes from the Jedi apprentice who fails at everything and was emotionally destroyed by learning about Vader being his father, to a dude who claims to be a Jedi Master and hatches a successful (if zany) plan to save Han.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It isn't. At all.
In fact it's kinda baffling you think this explains anything.

This sort of speech is just the usual thing the military does when breaking down a civilian so he can be trained anew into a soldier, it's not an explanation.

Yoda flatly explains why luke fails both before and after he try's to lift the Xwing end of, no matter how many times you want to try and pretend he doesn't he does incredibly clearly to the point a 10 year old would understand.

Spare me about the whole "recognized canon" or not.
I saw what they did to Revan.

Only the original authors matter in dictating what is or isn't. Only the original movies count.

So you admit you don't care about the actual canon of the universe and just wan't to go off your personal headcanon.

[Malaky]

Yoda flatly explains why luke fails both before and after he try's to lift the Xwing end of, no matter how many times you want to try and pretend he doesn't

He doesn't. "Flatly explaining" is exactly what Yoda doesn't do in the second and third movie, rather giving hints and motivational speeches so Luke would believe in himself instead of waiting for Yoda to provide an easy solution.
It seems to have completely gone over your head rather taking everything Yoda said at face value.

So you admit you don't care about the actual canon of the universe and just wan't to go off your personal headcanon.

I admit that only the author can be authoritative about their characters, yes.
Spare me the third-rate comics from third-rate unrelated people regardless whether Disney stated they're fine or not.

Unlike you, I don't gobble everything the Mouse throws down my throat.

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They don't specify how much time passes between ESB and RotJ, but seeing as Luke gets his feeling at the end of ESB, and misses Han getting frozen by a few minutes, he gets a new hand, and then the opening scene of RotJ is them rescuing Han, which they would probably do fairly quickly? I suppose it would take, yanno, an hour to come up with the great plan of Leia dressing up as a bounty hunter and bringing in Chewie, so the gap would probably the time it takes to go from Bespin to Tattooine.

I always assumed it took them months to track down Han's location and concoct a plan to save him. The movie clearly signs us viewers that time has passed.
It was mostly bragging to be fair, he was no Jedi Master and their plan was rocky at best in execution.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

He doesn't. "Flatly explaining" is exactly what Yoda doesn't do in the second and third movie, rather giving hints and motivational speeches so Luke would believe in himself instead of waiting for Yoda to provide an easy solution.

Luke: I can't believe it.
Yoda: this is why you fail.

it couldn't be any more cut and dry.

I admit that only the author can be authoritative about their characters, yes.
Spare me the third-rate comics from third-rate unrelated people regardless whether Disney stated they're fine or not.

Unlike you, I don't gobble everything the Mouse throws down my throat.

It has nothing to do with Disney as I've also been siting the EU which was made before Disney had any thing to do with starwars.

But if you want to try and justify your fanfic/head canon go ahead ill stick with the actual universe.