Why doesn't Blizzard trust me to play their game?

[Big Thanks]

Not interested in trying to change someone's clearly made up mind because it is unproductive and I do not care whatsoever whether or not you agree with my opinion. I also did not throw shade on your opinion, I just said you used the word "universally" wrong, which you did. You can hold whatever opinion you want. It's just silly and unfruitful for you to pretend that everyone agrees with you, especially when they clearly don't.

I presented you with a big list of timegated content ingame right now.
A listed you willingly ignored.
Only presented me with a "No" as an answer.
You are right, our conversation is getting nowhere...but IMO is your fault for choosing to ignore my points.

Just so we are clear, you, Trend, is dennying WoW is overly timegated.

[Trend]

The content that frustrated me the most was honestly being able to make a new character of a different race. Having the motivation to make a new character, having a name picked out, thinking out a fun back story for said character in my head, only to be met with a time gated grind was a really bad feeling. By the time I unlocked the allied race I was going for, I didn't even have any motivation left to make a new character, it was totally gone.

Imagine if you were playing a game of D&D with your friends, and the dungeon master was like "okay so in order to play the race you want to make your character as, you're gonna need to play a different character for months in order to earn enough reputation to play as that race". It would defeat the entire purpose of playing a RPG starting out customizing your character and getting to play as an interesting race that you want. People would quit because they'd think that the dungeon master is crazy for doing something so nonsensical like that.

That's what it feels like to lock something as important as making a new character of a different race behind a time gate, it was the final straw for me.

Now I am even more confused. I am guessing you are using some different meaning for the term "time gate". If you are creating a new character and you are discontinuing your play for the day because there is nothing more to do because of time gates, then I am absolutely bewildered. Are you talking about leveling being time gated (which it is not at all) or you talking about max level play? Can you give a very specific example of a time gate that is causing you harm?

[Trend]

I presented you with a big list of timegated content ingame right now.
A listed you willingly ignored.
Only presented me with a "No" as an answer.
You are right, our conversation is getting nowhere...but IMO is your fault for choosing to ignore my points.

Just so we are clear, you, Trend, is dennying WoW is overly timegated.

LMAO. I never even stated my opinion. You said your opinion is "universally" held. It's not. I could agree with you and still recognize that it is not a universally held opinion like you said it is. I like Guiness much but I am mentally virtuous enough to recognize the statement "Guiness is universally beloved" as false because I can understand the reality that not everyone cares for it.

Your inability to work with such a basic concept is the reason there is zero chance I will waste any more time with you. If you want to have understanding, just look up the word "universally" ... the word you used. If you do that, we would not need to have further conversation anyway.

[Garymorilix]

The content that frustrated me the most was honestly being able to make a new character of a different race. Having the motivation to make a new character, having a name picked out, thinking out a fun back story for said character in my head, only to be met with a time gated grind was a really bad feeling. By the time I unlocked the allied race I was going for, I didn't even have any motivation left to make a new character, it was totally gone.

Imagine if you were playing a game of D&D with your friends, and the dungeon master was like "okay so in order to play the race you want to make your character as, you're gonna need to play a different character for months in order to earn enough reputation to play as that race". It would defeat the entire purpose of playing a RPG starting out customizing your character and getting to play as an interesting race that you want. People would quit because they'd think that the dungeon master is crazy for doing something so nonsensical like that.

That's what it feels like to lock something as important as making a new character of a different race behind a time gate, it was the final straw for me.

Did you like WotLK?

What if I told you that if you wanted to be a Death Knight you had to level a different character to 55 back then? And I mean, in vanilla style leveling zones, not current WoW. Crazy right. A whole class being time-gated in one of the most loved expansions of all time.

Did you like raid atunements?

What if I told you that if you wanted to do raids on alts, you needed to do those again and again.

Allied races are piss easy to farm out. Especially BfA ones. Honoround/7th Legion is the fastest reputation there is.
I'm not even sure how fast legion races are, given I did those reps in Legion but I heard those were nerfed also, as in you can get them faster. It's not like getting exalted with Argus factions weren't fast to begin with.

If you are actually someone who does every single world quest every day then I have zero idea why you are not exalted with everything. Especially well over a year into the expansion. It makes zero sense. I was exalted with every base reputation before I cleared Uldir. And I didn't even no-life it. What are you even doing all day in game?

[rhorle]

World quests Reputations Essenses Weekly cache chests (PvP and PvE) Weekly quests Mana Pearls Flying World Bosses Raids Allied races ...

90% of that list has always been time gated though. Using what has always been for an example of overly gated is silly. Because it is just how the game is designed. Lockouts reset weekly that means world bosses, raids, caches, and quests all reseting weekly are not in any way shape or form to much time gating. The appearence of those things are not all over the game.

World quest are an evolution from dailies which were time gated. Burning Crusade introduced that form and even then you get a ton of World Quests now a few times a day. They are not overly time gated because very few people do every single world quest each day. Reputation is less gated then with dailies because you can get a contract and do every world quest each day for more rep. There are more world quests then 25 daily limit.

The rest are not examples of overly gating just simply gating that you don't like. Essences are not all time gated but earned through actions. Flying is barely time gated beyond the release of each part of Pathfinder. Allied races are 90% of the time passively unlocked by doing other game content unless you are a new or returning player.

- - - Updated - - -

The content that frustrated me the most was honestly being able to make a new character of a different race. Having the motivation to make a new character, having a name picked out, thinking out a fun back story for said character in my head, only to be met with a time gated grind was a really bad feeling. By the time I unlocked the allied race I was going for, I didn't even have any motivation left to make a new character, it was totally gone.

But that wasn't because of time gating. That was because of your play style. Every allied race added to the game could have been unlocked the day they were added by playing the game prior to that point. There is also 71 world quests up right now for BfA (as alliance and I could be off one or two on my count). You can do all of them for the slow grind of +10 rep per quest. But I highly doubt you are making the time to do those grinds and instead complain about the gate.

[Sansnom]

Now I am even more confused. I am guessing you are using some different meaning for the term "time gate". If you are creating a new character and you are discontinuing your play for the day because there is nothing more to do because of time gates, then I am absolutely bewildered. Are you talking about leveling being time gated (which it is not at all) or you talking about max level play? Can you give a very specific example of a time gate that is causing you harm?

I think the poster was referring to the fact unlocking allied races requirement the completion of some achievements which themselves were time-gated. So one had to wait several weeks to unlock these races.

Time-gate is not new to WoW. It has existed for a long time in various forms. Dungeon and raids reset limited their participation to a certain degree. Rep grind also had daily limit back in WoTLK.

I recall during WoTLK, the ICC raids did not have shared loot lockouts so some guilds felt it was necessary to raid all four variants to acquire all the loots possible, leading to burnout. So this is an example of what could happen if there were no limits imposed.

People did not have raid all four but because they can, they did. Some how their player based created a problem that became Blizzards problem. So there is time gating in almost everything. I personally do not mind but I would prefer if daily limits were replaced with weekly limits instead.

[rohoz]

Did you like WotLK?

What if I told you that if you wanted to be a Death Knight you had to level a different character to 55 back then? And I mean, in vanilla style leveling zones, not current WoW. Crazy right. A whole class being time-gated in one of the most loved expansions of all time.

Did you like raid atunements?

What if I told you that if you wanted to do raids on alts, you needed to do those again and again.

Allied races are piss easy to farm out. Especially BfA ones. Honoround/7th Legion is the fastest reputation there is.
I'm not even sure how fast legion races are, given I did those reps in Legion but I heard those were nerfed also, as in you can get them faster. It's not like getting exalted with Argus factions weren't fast to begin with.

If you are actually someone who does every single world quest every day then I have zero idea why you are not exalted with everything. Especially well over a year into the expansion. It makes zero sense. I was exalted with every base reputation before I cleared Uldir. And I didn't even no-life it. What are you even doing all day in game?

He's complaining on mmo-c obviously

[Big Thanks]

90% of that list has always been time gated though. Using what has always been for an example of overly gated is silly. Because it is just how the game is designed. Lockouts reset weekly that means world bosses, raids, caches, and quests all reseting weekly are not in any way shape or form to much time gating. The appearence of those things are not all over the game.

World quest are an evolution from dailies which were time gated. Burning Crusade introduced that form and even then you get a ton of World Quests now a few times a day. They are not overly time gated because very few people do every single world quest each day. Reputation is less gated then with dailies because you can get a contract and do every world quest each day for more rep. There are more world quests then 25 daily limit.

The rest are not examples of overly gating just simply gating that you don't like. Essences are not all time gated but earned through actions. Flying is barely time gated beyond the release of each part of Pathfinder. Allied races are 90% of the time passively unlocked by doing other game content unless you are a new or returning player.

Reputations were not always time gated. Remember tabards?
PvP vendors, not time gated

Essenses, Allied Races among other things are gated behind World Quest-Reputation farm.
And World-Quest reputation farm is the definition of a timegate.

You are right most of the other things i listed were always timegated. But i said "WoW is universally accepted to be overly timegated"
Are you adding to the quote "since always?"
Yeah i agree.

[rhorle]

You are right most of the other things i listed were always timegated. But i said "WoW is universally accepted to be overly timegated"
Are you adding to the quote "since always?" Yeah i agree.

But it isn't universally accepted to be overly time gated. Because I don't feel the game is overly time gated. And normal parts of the game that have existed for ever are not going to be included in "overly" anything. Because that is just the way things have always worked. You can't overly do something if it has always worked that way.

[Big Thanks]

But it isn't universally accepted to be overly time gated. Because I don't feel the game is overly time gated. And normal parts of the game that have existed for ever are not going to be included in "overly" anything. Because that is just the way things have always worked. You can't overly do something if it has always worked that way.

Ok, Ok. I surrender and tell you the timegates are not "overly excessive".
But Trend was also being excessive about the game with quotes like:

I personally have never gotten to a point where I have said "well there is no more reason to keep playing right now due to time gates"

This quote...is almost impossible to happen for a WoW player.
I was being excessive...but was not the only one.

[Trend]

Ok, Ok. I surrender and tell you the timegates are not "overly excessive".
But Trend was also being excessive about the game with quotes like:

I personally have never gotten to a point where I have said "well there is no more reason to keep playing right now due to time gates"

This quote...is almost impossible to happen for a WoW player.

What the fuck are you going on about? How the fuck is that true statement excessive? Or you just being a baby because I called you out for using language incorrectly / dishonestly?

[Mirishka]

People here WILL do that, too. They want no timegating, but, w/o it, they'd be done as fast as they could possibly do it, then whine that Blizzard wasn't making enough content. If Blizzard made enough content for those people, the 'normal' people who don't play 16 hours a day 7 days a week would just quit because they wouldn't be able to sense, let alone see the end of the tunnel.

That's why the next expansion is squishing levels. New players see '120 levels' and walk away. Doesn't matter if the game is mostly dead, like LOTRO, but evidently Blizzard has found data supporting their changes. Yes, some people hate the squish. The game is still big enough that it doesn't matter what Blizzard does, some fraction will hate the change(s). Those people can adapt, or quit. That's really the choice they have.

Also, any MMO, F2P or pay, lives or dies by new blood. If they're not bringing in new blood, they're dying. They are going to lose old players, no matter how 'good' or 'bad' the expansions are.

I for one welcome our new squished overlords (levels). The idea of every level being meaningful again, and getting to cap much much faster, sounds good to me.

[Muajin76]

hmm..what does flower milk even taste like?

[Kendros]

Because theres always that kind of person that will grind the hell out of everything leave eveybody behind, team up with the same kind of ppl and then those that play casualy will complain why they cant get into any groups when they are so far behind everyone else.

[Kokolums]

I level a character to max and it's a fun time, and when I hit max level I'm met with some world quest chores to meet my goals of unlocking flying, allied races, better gear, etc. Cool. But then I start doing those chores, and the game is like "that's all the progress/WoW you can play for today, come back tomorrow". Why doesn't Blizzard trust me to play their game more? Why do they put these weird parental control time gated progress walls everywhere? I feel like I'm playing a mobile phone game and I'm about to be asked to pay real money to bypass these time gated progress walls.

I'm a grown adult Blizzard, I can play your game for as long as I feel like it/have the time and still attend to my IRL responsibilities, you don't need to restrict my play time like this by putting everything behind a time gate. I'm not going to stop playing your game either because I've met my goals faster than you've intended me to, that's crazy. You still have so much more for me to do once I've unlocked flying, allied races, etc like making alts, collecting mounts/pets/transmogs and so much else, you do not need to heavily time gate everything like this to try to keep me playing for longer. All it does is just burn me out on the game and make me NOT want to play the game at all anymore because I'm so sick and frustrated with all these time gates everywhere.

Why do they do this?

Blizzard has already made a game that completely lacks time-gating for you. It is called Diablo 3. You can create a level 1 char right now in Diablo and play without restriction nor time gating of any sort, and constantly work to improve your gear for hours on end until you pass out.

[Flower Milk]

hmm..what does flower milk even taste like?

Tea!

/10characters

[Luxeley]

It's called time gating, it's a method used for the "LONG" outdated MMO business model time syncing. This is the perfect example of the first baby step where Blizzard fails.

[Ange]

Yea, I miss the days when you could farm heroic dungeons and raids all day without lockout.

I miss the days when I had to do a limited amount of daily quests for repu grinds every day.

I miss the days when I had to log in daily to get that few tokens from hc lfg runs or I'd miss out.

I am so glad nothing was ever gated before BfA. Everything was free for you to grind in 1 day and that was it. Fun times.

The topic seems to be the generic whining about flying because its time gated and fair comparisons to the game past have no weight here.

The whole discussion is funny, because the pathfinder in BfA took zero extra steps and just the completition of the story mode. It was never this easy and still it gets the most heated discussion. Blizzard should just take notes and make some painfull attunement for pathfinder in shadowlands.

Re-subing only for pathfinder, noticing its made for regular players and its basicly passively earned, just to complain about it on MMO-C and quit the game again. This threads are pure comedy gold.

[Averrix]

How about try not to do everything so fast and just do it while you play and do other things? That's how I did the bee mount. I didn't need to be the first person with it, I just casually did it as I played, the only time I would farm for stuff for it was when I was doing a stormsong emissary or just going through the zone.

[deenman]

They want you to keep paying. Most timegates are timed to be longer than a month total.

this is truly amazing to witness,how people can have such oposing views on the game,so many complain about having infinite progression to do like in the case of AP farm,and cry for the days of capped valor etc,and then there are people like you who are in the complete side of wanting infinity and beyond lol,personaly i find this amusing