Account Wide Essences!

[Augusta138]

No I can't so I'll clarify my thoughts.
I'd say it's either anything or nothing. Account wide essences don't make sense if the rest is not, like reps.
Either we stay like this (save for lessening requirements for example) or we have a system like account wide or allowing transfer of essences/gear/reps/whatelse to another char.
But allowing essences to be account wide and just that, I disagree as part of the leveling process, like reps.
Is that clearer ?

Well, just essences alone should be a step in the right direction.

But it just is very weird to read to different posts agreeing and disagreeing on the same things at the same time.

I am all for more alt friendly content and everything. Getting all Zandalar proffessions was a pain aswell due to having to level some reputations to be able to level a proffession up beyond a certain point.

So i would agree on making more stuff account wide, so that is all fine. But for now my focus is on the essences.

Essences are just a great example to tell and show Blizzard the system is really flawed and not friendly in any way if you play alts.

[Sangfoudre]

Well, just essences alone should be a step in the right direction.

But it just is very weird to read to different posts agreeing and disagreeing on the same things at the same time.

I am all for more alt friendly content and everything. Getting all Zandalar proffessions was a pain aswell due to having to level some reputations to be able to level a proffession up beyond a certain point.

So i would agree on making more stuff account wide, so that is all fine. But for now my focus is on the essences.

Essences are just a great example to tell and show Blizzard the system is really flawed and not friendly in any way if you play alts.

So as long as it's only essences, it's a strong no for me. See why above.
My posts were like "essences no, everything yes". So I don't disagree with myself, it's just I'm in for the whole, out for the specific request.

[Augusta138]

So as long as it's only essences, it's a strong no for me. See why above.
My posts were like "essences no, everything yes". So I don't disagree with myself, it's just I'm in for the whole, out for the specific request.

Hence the fact i said: essences will be a step in the right direction.

I do agree with making more stuff alt friendly, however that will even conjure up more disgruntled people i guess.

[Kalligos]

Imho Mecha and naj essences that require rep to gain them should be acount wide while with 1 character being exalted.As for Memory of lucid dreams once u obtain the r2 from quest r3 should be accessible once u are exalted with the naj faction (A/H).For the BoTE and the 2 other eseences , i say once u have done the quest and have obtained the related achievements from your "main" u should get the with MoH.The rest essences should be obtained the way it is now.

[Sangfoudre]

Hence the fact i said: essences will be a step in the right direction.

I do agree with making more stuff alt friendly, however that will even conjure up more disgruntled people i guess.

I agree with your last statement. Some people will whine whatever direction Blizzard'll take.

[Accendor]

i think the problem with it is - its not ready

in past all you had to do is ding max level and you were ready for dungeons/raids

now if you dont spend idiotic amount of time farming ap and essences your alts are not ready because you are simply not being viable in dungeons and raids

system is just broken . and people cba to take part in this.

Just to make this very clear: We both are nearly on the same page here. The system is clearly broken and needs to be fixed, but it goes way deeper than essences.
The whole reward and gear/character progression system is broken and does not make sense anymore.

Where I do not agree however is the "Not being viable in dungeons and raids" if you do not have maxed out essences. That is just BS.
Everything including m+10 and the first three bosses on mythic difficulty can EASILY be done with rank 1 essences. However, you do not have Rang 1 Essences everywhere, because you get R3 from Crucible (which is one of the top 2-3 essences for most speccs anyway) for free when you fix your AP.

I know, because I did it. Multiple times. WQ, Low-Level M+, Benthic Gear, Warfronts and PVP-Quests push you to 420+ EXTREMELY fast while simultaneously being showered in AP. Yes, still you have to do a little bit of grinding for 65, but its really not much.

So now, you are not "not viable" for raids and dungeons, you are only "not viable" for stuff like m+15 and later mythic bosses, which is not only fair enough, it also affects only a very, very small portion of the player base. And yes, I am one of the people who are affected by it and I still think its np.

[Rotted]

Wait whats this,

Someone has a reasonable suggestion but instead of just out right complaining about it on mmo, they made a decent post and a post on the official forums :O :O :O :O :O

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snip.

Your quote to the dude is broken my man (Kamuimac)

[Augusta138]

Just to make this very clear: We both are nearly on the same page here. The system is clearly broken and needs to be fixed, but it goes way deeper than essences.
The whole reward and gear/character progression system is broken and does not make sense anymore.

Where I do not agree however is the "Not being viable in dungeons and raids" if you do not have maxed out essences. That is just BS.
Everything including m+10 and the first three bosses on mythic difficulty can EASILY be done with rank 1 essences. However, you do not have Rang 1 Essences everywhere, because you get R3 from Crucible (which is one of the top 2-3 essences for most speccs anyway) for free when you fix your AP.

I know, because I did it. Multiple times. WQ, Low-Level M+, Benthic Gear, Warfronts and PVP-Quests push you to 420+ EXTREMELY fast while simultaneously being showered in AP. Yes, still you have to do a little bit of grinding for 65, but its really not much.

So now, you are not "not viable" for raids and dungeons, you are only "not viable" for stuff like m+15 and later mythic bosses, which is not only fair enough, it also affects only a very, very small portion of the player base. And yes, I am one of the people who are affected by it and I still think its np.

I also worked on my essences on alts id like to play m+ on. However since it isnt fun the 1st time to farm them, the 2nd time it isnt fun either.

And i get fed up by the fact i have to redo the same boring rep grinds / bodyguard quests and other boring chores during my limited time i can / want to play.

So for me personally, and i do think i am not alone on that:
I have to make a choice: farm essences and work on boring chores or doing content i like more.

Yes, fully aware i can do my content without essences, and i could also not care about alts.

But i do care about alts and the different playstyles / experiences it does bring me.

Essences totally shit on the above premise because they are so boring to farm and they are needed for nice gameplay features and to progress my character through m+ / raids etc.

[Ange]

However since it isnt fun the 1st time to farm them, the 2nd time it isnt fun either.

This is your main motivation for a change?

You dont like the current gearing process AT ALL and because of this you would rather like the destruction of the whole gearing process, just so you can skip EVERYTHING with EVERY class and instantly "enjoy" FOTM class switching with account wide powerlevels?

Thats not WoW and I dont even know any MMO that would work this way. 99% of what you want matches action-RPG's where you switch your MAIN CLASS just as fast as you switch talents in WoW.

If you want to play multiple MAIN CHARACTERS, put the time in it. If you dont enjoy the current game, not even with your first run through, maybe just stop?

[Augusta138]

This is your main motivation for a change?

You dont like the current gearing process AT ALL and because of this you would rather like the destruction of the whole gearing process, just so you can skip EVERYTHING with EVERY class and instantly "enjoy" FOTM class switching with account wide powerlevels?

Thats not WoW and I dont even know any MMO that would work this way. 99% of what you want matches action-RPG's where you switch your MAIN CLASS just as fast as you switch talents in WoW.

If you want to play multiple MAIN CHARACTERS, put the time in it. If you dont enjoy the current game, not even with your first run through, maybe just stop?

Once again, read all the posts i made so far.

If you would have read any posts i made you would have read my motivation about making essences account wide. But you didnt bother. In the same way you didnt bother to explain why making essences account wide would be bad or a mistake.

Also: my major gripe is with the essences and not with the whole game. So your: just stop thing makes no sense whatsoever.

Multiple characters at max lvl.
HoA levels ranging from 67-70 on atleast 5 of them.
Multiple chars with alot of essences.

And after doing it a lot of times it is becoming really tedious and even a penalty to play alts.

I also posted before my motivation isnt based about fotm. Since i dont believe in that kind of hype.
And i can go on, but whats the point?

What is your main reason to deny account wide essences? So far i havent read a single reason that makes sense.

So, before we go any further give me just 1 proper reason why it cant be made account wide?

[Accendor]

[QUOTE=Augusta138;51939665]

And after doing it a lot of times it is becoming really tedious and even a penalty to play alts.
/QUOTE]

Yes, and it is supposed to feel that way. The point is that maintaining 5 alts at the same time SHOULD be hard, because else there is no difference between mains and alts anymore. Instead of characters you would play an account and you could just switch fotm style to whatever class you want. Not how it should work IMO.

[Terongor]

If you read more posts, you would have read that i already own almost all rank 3 essences on my main character.

However redoing all the boring chores on multiple alts because i want to play them to unlock the same essences is something i dont wanna do. Hence the topic and idea about account wide essences.

None of the content is trivial or challenging. So what is the big issue if it will become account wide?

All of us gain an advantage because you did the work to unlock said essences.
I dont see any arguments at all why it would be so bad for the game.

I wanna play alts in content i like to play and not be firstly spending all my time on fixing the essences through the same boring way i already did.

And you used the casual thing as an insult as stated above. And i never attacked you personally.

14 hours a week, just to farm essences. And then the time required for m+ / raids etc.

That is a lot of time to regain stuff just on alts.

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Why is gear being brought up into this? It doesnt make any sense that gear should be account wide too if essences will be or that people will ask for account wide gear.

Gearing a character is still a really nice investment in your character. Essences isnt fun or challenging at all.

Gearing up will be, since it relates to group content / socializing etc.

I see.

It would still take more out of the rpg side of the game.

Neither is gearing challenging its just a huge timesink but its CHARACTER PROGRESSION and so is gathering essences.

as there are alot of people who disagree with you about it just proves its not so black and white.

Not really its more of an statement though I do agree it can easily be interpited as an insult.

Well lets see.... 3-4 islands per week 30mins, reputations farm it might take longer depends how actively you do it, ap farm its easily done with wqs under a week now, m+ and arena essence most likely takes alot of time as its both of them the weekly chest but rank 1000 is easy and par is filled in under an hour, mechagon depends on your skills and gear and party and raid essence its most likely the same. honor essence takes sometime buts its just bg farm which is mostly fun.

So tell which of these which aren't the reps you really need to that much? as if its only the rep ones blizzes argument why reps aren't account wide still stands.

Also socializing not really nor is gearing challenging outside of end part of M EP and high end m+ but +10 can be easily done with a group who don't speak at all and they are pretty easy atm

[Soon-TM]

Yeah but making alts does not always imply to have full 445 gear along with max rank essences.

No one is asking for full 445 gear nor for max rank essences, thanks for the terrible strawman. But if you have obtained rank 3 on one of your toons, it isn't unreasonable to ask for the corresponding rank 1 on all of your alts. Or should a fresh 120 run Uldir + BoD before ever thinking about setting foot on EP?

[Sangfoudre]

No one is asking for full 445 gear nor for max rank essences, thanks for the terrible strawman. But if you have obtained rank 3 on one of your toons, it isn't unreasonable to ask for the corresponding rank 1 on all of your alts. Or should a fresh 120 run Uldir + BoD before ever thinking about setting foot on EP?

Yea, straws were there on purpose.
Anyhow, the question is about this request is reasonable or not.
- Crucible ranks 1 and 2 are given, like 10 minutes after hitting 120
- Mechagon has boa rep items
- Nazj will have too at 8.3
- Nazj follower essence will have strong rep reduction
If I follow your follow-up straw, its similar to a catch-up mechanism (like benthic tokens or previous systems like that)
I'm pretty certain its more than enough for a vast majority of alts to start raiding/pvping or else.

Getting 1st rank of other essences is not that difficult, so I'm not even sure it'd suffice to content people making this request.

[Tradu]

Yes, and it is supposed to feel that way. The point is that maintaining 5 alts at the same time SHOULD be hard, because else there is no difference between mains and alts anymore. Instead of characters you would play an account and you could just switch fotm style to whatever class you want. Not how it should work IMO.

The difference should be how good you are at playing them, not "you didn't re-grind all the same shit on this character, so it's now 20% weaker by default".

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Yea, straws were there on purpose.
Anyhow, the question is about this request is reasonable or not.
- Crucible ranks 1 and 2 are given, like 10 minutes after hitting 120
- Mechagon has boa rep items
- Nazj will have too at 8.3
- Nazj follower essence will have strong rep reduction
If I follow your follow-up straw, its similar to a catch-up mechanism (like benthic tokens or previous systems like that)
I'm pretty certain its more than enough for a vast majority of alts to start raiding/pvping or else.

Getting 1st rank of other essences is not that difficult, so I'm not even sure it'd suffice to content people making this request.

Correct, becasue R1 essences are pretty garbage. Giving R1 also doesn't help at all if you still have to fulfill the current R2 and R3 requirements, because those are the ones with time consuming requirements.

[Augusta138]

I see.

It would still take more out of the rpg side of the game.

Neither is gearing challenging its just a huge timesink but its CHARACTER PROGRESSION and so is gathering essences.

as there are alot of people who disagree with you about it just proves its not so black and white.

Not really its more of an statement though I do agree it can easily be interpited as an insult.

Well lets see.... 3-4 islands per week 30mins, reputations farm it might take longer depends how actively you do it, ap farm its easily done with wqs under a week now, m+ and arena essence most likely takes alot of time as its both of them the weekly chest but rank 1000 is easy and par is filled in under an hour, mechagon depends on your skills and gear and party and raid essence its most likely the same. honor essence takes sometime buts its just bg farm which is mostly fun.

So tell which of these which aren't the reps you really need to that much? as if its only the rep ones blizzes argument why reps aren't account wide still stands.

Also socializing not really nor is gearing challenging outside of end part of M EP and high end m+ but +10 can be easily done with a group who don't speak at all and they are pretty easy atm

All you keep doing is repeating the same things over and over. You dont have to tell me how this game works. I know how it works.

Come up with a proper reason WHY you think account wide essences would ruin the game?

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Yes, and it is supposed to feel that way. The point is that maintaining 5 alts at the same time SHOULD be hard, because else there is no difference between mains and alts anymore. Instead of characters you would play an account and you could just switch fotm style to whatever class you want. Not how it should work IMO.

I am fine investing time into maintaining 5 alts or how many i decide to play.
But the Essences are no way near challenging content or even showing other people how good you are at the game.

They provide a benefit in terms of your HoA and show that you did have enough time on your hands to do the pointless chores over and over again.

Where as a high RIO score / 8/8 Mythic clear or a high pvp rating is also time consuming atleast that is something that is recognize-able as being skilled or dedicated towards the mentioned content.

Lets try this out with an example:

If you run ANY content at all atm, would you be able to tell if someone is playing an alt?
No you wouldnt be able to tell because if they dont tell you, you wouldnt know.

The only way you would know, is basically by looking at their RIO score but even that might not disclose the full situation. Since you can mark your main yourself and show a lower RIO score if you wish.

And a lot of players (and i do count myself in that list) wanna play their alts to the same level as their main.

To experience a +15 on a healer or tank or dps for that matter. And they wanna carry their own weight.

And if you would play with someone who is playing an alt, and you make that +3 timer or win the Arena or clear 8/8 mythic EP? would it mattter?
No because you achieved whatever you set out to do.

So stop making it up like alts are ruining the game or your experience.

Essences are in no way challenging or require ANY skill to be obtained.


Yes, my alts will gain them eventually and i can farm for them, but i just dont see the point why we should refarm all the stuff over and over and over again.
So the catch up mechanics coming arent enough in my eyes.

Mechagon reputation badge: 100 rep token for 1 spare crate (if i am correct) That still means you need 60 of them to be farmed to send to your alt to get from 0/6000 (friendly) towards honored. (and using the materials on the alt requires even more farming since the same currencies are used to buy your essences from the faction you are buying rep tokens for.)

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Yea, straws were there on purpose.
Anyhow, the question is about this request is reasonable or not.
- Crucible ranks 1 and 2 are given, like 10 minutes after hitting 120
- Mechagon has boa rep items
- Nazj will have too at 8.3
- Nazj follower essence will have strong rep reduction
If I follow your follow-up straw, its similar to a catch-up mechanism (like benthic tokens or previous systems like that)
I'm pretty certain its more than enough for a vast majority of alts to start raiding/pvping or else.

Getting 1st rank of other essences is not that difficult, so I'm not even sure it'd suffice to content people making this request.

1st rank of Essences arent the issue. The upgrades require a lot of time and reputation / questing or farming currency (be that honor / spare crates whatever)
Its nice you mention those baseline essences but not all of them are amazing for all classes.

[Sangfoudre]

1st rank of Essences arent the issue. The upgrades require a lot of time and reputation / questing or farming currency (be that honor / spare crates whatever)
Its nice you mention those baseline essences but not all of them are amazing for all classes.

It was a reply for a post about getting 1st rank.
My point is, you switched main or you play a lot your alts, either you plan it by playing it more than other or you don't play with BiS ranks of your essences.
If you're a top player, you'll find the dedication to go for it, not having rank 3 won't make that much of a difference anyway.
If you're not, you don't need it anyway so ?
Not that I'm against having more stuff account-wide, not having it is one of the reason I don't do alts, I hate having to do the same thing another time for the same purpose while I like the first grind, I feel it as becoming more powerful (still a RPG), but currencies and reps should be the fight we fight instead.

[Chromell]

At the very fucking least they are making the catch up mechanic for Convenants in Shadowlands work in favor of alts. It won't be account wide, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

[Augusta138]

It was a reply for a post about getting 1st rank.
My point is, you switched main or you play a lot your alts, either you plan it by playing it more than other or you don't play with BiS ranks of your essences.
If you're a top player, you'll find the dedication to go for it, not having rank 3 won't make that much of a difference anyway.
If you're not, you don't need it anyway so ?
Not that I'm against having more stuff account-wide, not having it is one of the reason I don't do alts, I hate having to do the same thing another time for the same purpose while I like the first grind, I feel it as becoming more powerful (still a RPG), but currencies and reps should be the fight we fight instead.

Like i said before, and you mentioned it yourself.

We both think WoW can do with being more friendly towards alts or returning players or even new players. (see lvling change in shadowlands)
And the gameplay systems and all extra stuff you need to know nowadays is daunting for people to even try it out.

So we run on just veteran players and barely any new players. It is becoming too difficult to understand.

[Accendor]

The difference should be how good you are at playing them, not "you didn't re-grind all the same shit on this character, so it's now 20% weaker by default".

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In that case I think playing another type of game (e.g. a MOBA or action game without a real progression system) would suit you more :/