Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[draynay]

I actually had some things I wanted to say about the IG report, and then my mind wandered off thinking what it would be like to rattle a hornets nest.

"I could say something but I'm not gonna!"

Nice playground antics, we're all relieved to have been spared your cutting words. Maybe someday you'll find your voice, if not your wit.

[Crispin]

I actually had some things I wanted to say about the IG report, and then my mind wandered off thinking what it would be like to rattle a hornets nest.

I'll say it for you mate. It's a shame that it only contained minor irellevant flaws at lower levels in the investigation, and had nothing the resembled a political hit job that Trump and his cult claimed it was. Of course anyone with half a brain already knew that. Such a shame it wasn't a total witch hunt, you know like birtherism.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I actually had some things I wanted to say about the IG report, and then my mind wandered off thinking what it would be like to rattle a hornets nest.

Inconvenient truths make it hard to speak. Don't worry, we'll await your almost word-for-word retelling of McCarthy's comments (once he makes them) on these recent developments, since you apparently can only regurgitate his words.

[Dontrike]

I actually had some things I wanted to say about the IG report, and then my mind wandered off thinking what it would be like to rattle a hornets nest.

Oh do go ahead and say them. Trump and Barr didn't get what they wanted, and neither did Fox. For once just agree there's no Deep State spying on Trump.

[Machismo]

Oh do go ahead and say them. Trump and Barr didn't get what they wanted, and neither did Fox. For once just agree there's no Deep State spying on Trump.

I loved how pissed Durham was, that he was not able to push lies in the report.

[Kujako]

Did the Articles of Impeachment just get 10 pages taller???

Guess we'll find out today.

[Spectral]

Soooooo remember how Trump said, while signing Russian sanctions, while in turn crying like a bitch, that he could make the best bestiest best deals with foreign countries?

The shine is coming off that apple. Um, bad metaphor, Trump hates Apple and probably has never seen a fruit. The...botox is wearing off the trophy wife?



To make that clear: leadership-grade GOP lawmakers are publicly admitting that, not only is Trump failing to make a good deal with friggin' Canada, but he also still hasn't gotten his balls back from Pelosi yet.

Expect the same thing from China. Trump, eager to even claim he made a good deal, will create a situation objectively worse than what he started with.

Expect both to be thrown in his face in 2020. Or, maybe, expect at least one to fail.

I actually can't tell - do you dislike the changes to USMCA or just see an opportunity to shit on Trump for not be a True Conservative?

Trump's platform was never one of True Conservatism, it was based on populism. Striking a deal with Democrats to give American labor a better deal is consistent with that platform; of course that pisses Republicans off, but I'm not clear on why you'd think that's a bad thing for Americans. A deal that's better for American autoworkers at the expense of giant corporations seems like a good update to quite a few people. I'm sure the more libertarian and corporate wings will have a damned fit that it's not good for shareholders, but I'm not clear why anyone that's center-left or left-leaning would be opposed to the changes.

[Skroe]

I actually had some things I wanted to say about the IG report, and then my mind wandered off thinking what it would be like to rattle a hornets nest.

Well you know who had things he wanted to say? Your orange lord.



And here we are, at the edge of the impeachement you never said would happen actually happening, and with your dotard President cable of little more than mean tweeting.

I hope you realize I mean that in quite the literal sense. He has no legislative agenda. He has been all talk no walk on what the Trumpublicans laughably call a deregulatory agenda (93% loss rate in the courts and all). The courts keep destroying his immigration agenda. He has no foreign influence. The only thing he does is name officially nominate judges that other people put on his desk.

So what's the point of him anyway? Is this just some elaborate, boring troll by the Trumphadi's at this point? To squat in the White House so the other side can't actually do something?

Furthermore the particulars of this tweet is why your President, despite being just under three full years in office, cannot attract talent, cannot staff his White House and executive branch and cannot find willing and qualified Republicans to work for him. He has to resort to the D-list and the grifters. Because nobody wants to be where he just put Christopher Wray. If Donald Trump said that shit to me and I was Wray, and hold a press conference, tell Trump to go fuck himself, and quit on the spot.

Hell my brother just took up a prosecutor position at the New York State AG's office (moving on from New York) working on Counter-terrorism and the Cartel. He'd love to go Federal. But he refuses to work for any government where Donald Trump is President and Barr is AG. He's not against Republicans - like me he's conservative, especially when it comes to law enforcement matters. But he knows what Trump is. He isn't going to work for him. He'll just wait for the next President,

Exactly how many time do you people need to hear variations of the above story to recognize the thug you protect is the problem and we'd all be better off if you just joined us in tossing him out of office and replacing him with Pence.

- - - Updated - - -

I actually can't tell - do you dislike the changes to USMCA or just see an opportunity to shit on Trump for not be a True Conservative?

Trump's platform was never one of True Conservatism, it was based on populism. Striking a deal with Democrats to give American labor a better deal is consistent with that platform; of course that pisses Republicans off, but I'm not clear on why you'd think that's a bad thing for Americans. A deal that's better for American autoworkers at the expense of giant corporations seems like a good update to quite a few people. I'm sure the more libertarian and corporate wings will have a damned fit that it's not good for shareholders, but I'm not clear why anyone that's center-left or left-leaning would be opposed to the changes.

Breccia is adopting the correct approach in pointing out the magnitude of the compromises Republicans / conservatives who remained behind have made in order to stand by their domestic abuser.

They've gone wobbly on free trade, wobbly on their positions on workers rights, wobbly on Russia (very wobbly on Russia), wobbly on alliances, wobbly on the Constitution and rule of law, and so much more because they fear Donald Trump mean tweeting them like he did his own FBI Director today.

Trump is symptomatic. The book of this era will be named "Profiles in Chickenshit", because Trumps worst excesses are enabled by weak men and women, both in the elected Republican Party and in the electoral base as a whole, who threw away their beliefs and our shared American principles simply because they wanted to be in charge for a few years.

[Spectral]

Breccia is adopting the correct approach in pointing out the magnitude of the compromises Republicans / conservatives who remained behind have made in order to stand by their domestic abuser.

They've gone wobbly on free trade, wobbly on their positions on workers rights, wobbly on Russia (very wobbly on Russia), wobbly on alliances, wobbly on the Constitution and rule of law, and so much more because they fear Donald Trump mean tweeting them like he did his own FBI Director today.

Trump is symptomatic. The book of this era will be named "Profiles in Chickenshit", because Trumps worst excesses are enabled by weak men and women, both in the elected Republican Party and in the electoral base as a whole, who threw away their beliefs and our shared American principles simply because they wanted to be in charge for a few years.

Surely this can't be what caused you to notice that Republican politicians are a bunch of shitheads though, right? During my entire lifetime, well over 90% of them have been unprincipled jackasses that haven't stuck with any particular position that isn't politically expedient. As ever, politicians are mostly sociopaths and remembering that tends to give much better guesses about how they'll behave than treating their sweeping rhetoric as anything they actually believe.

[Skroe]

Surely this can't be what caused you to notice that Republican politicians are a bunch of shitheads though, right? During my entire lifetime, well over 90% of them have been unprincipled jackasses that haven't stuck with any particular position that isn't politically expedient. As ever, politicians are mostly sociopaths and remembering that tends to give much better guesses about how they'll behave than treating their sweeping rhetoric as anything they actually believe.

There is a lot to unravel in this reply.

On the one hand, of course not. All politicians are not trustworthy and unprincipled. The thing that's been striking is the degree to which Republicans have bent to accommodate Trump. That I did not expect. It's gone way further than I expect. They kneel to him to the extent that they let him fuck with their own power. Playing nice to the President by his party is to be expected - Congressional Democrats had no love of the Obama White House from a staffing and coordination standpoint, but they stood by them in public. But what Republicans have done has gone so much further. Democrats would not do this. Democrats have proven themselves more principled.

The second thing is, and this is paradoxical to the above, what's with the cult-like fealty to Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. These are, as we've said, unprincipled politicians. Since when did we start trusting politicians and thinking them people that should be actively defended, rather than used up and discarded? The manner in which Trump's base clings to him is unprecedented in our life times, and maybe all of American history. American Presidents have been wildly popular and loved before. But what Trump has brought out of his base and the things Sanders supporters say about their guy is straight out of Eastern European Cults of personality, 30 years ago.

So how do we reconcile this: on one hand, we're not supposed to be surprised in politicians are this unprincipled, but on the other hand, accept the fanatical and un-American loyalty to "Our Great President" (as the press office often calls him) offered by his base?

This is why I think of Trump's base - all 38-41% of the electorate - to be basically utter and complete moral cowards who I'm not really interested in having a conversation in, and more so interested in the ways we can inflict pain on them in the years ahead, starting with impeachment over the next week. Impeachment that will fail to remove Trump, but is just the start of the things we inflict on them to illustrate how unacceptable their moral compromise has been.

Basically the beatings will continue until they start acting like goddamn Americans again.

[Adam Jensen]

This is why I think of Trump's base - all 38-41% of the electorate - to be basically utter and complete moral cowards who I'm not really interested in having a conversation in, and more so interested in the ways we can inflict pain on them in the years ahead, starting with impeachment over the next week. Impeachment that will fail to remove Trump, but is just the start of the things we inflict on them to illustrate how unacceptable their moral compromise has been.

Basically the beatings will continue until they start acting like goddamn Americans again.

This is precisely why I support impeachment even if there is a 0.00001% chance the Republican controlled senate will do the right thing and remove this oaf from office. It sends a message that, hey, this shit, not acceptable. The Office of the President of the United States is not a monarchy nor a dictatorship, if you can't abide by our laws while being President, you should not be president.

No one is above the law.

No one.

Which is why, by the way, I think the Office of Legal Council's stance of not indicting a president is f**king stupid. If there's clear evidence, then indict the motherfucker. He's not a king.

We got rid of our king 243 years ago.

[Skroe]

This is precisely why I support impeachment even if there is a 0.00001% chance the Republican controlled senate will do the right thing and remove this oaf from office. It sends a message that, hey, this shit, not acceptable. The Office of the President of the United States is not a monarchy nor a dictatorship, if you can't abide by our laws while being President, you should not be president.

No one is above the law.

No one.

Which is why, by the way, I think the Office of Legal Council's stance of not indicting a president is f**king stupid. If there's clear evidence, then indict the motherfucker. He's not a king.

We got rid of our king 243 years ago.

Perfectly put.

No one is above the law.

Especially not Donald J Trump and the Trumphadis.

[Themius]

Perfectly put.

No one is above the law.

Especially not Donald J Trump and the Trumphadis.

What I find funny is that at one point when the British had a king they didn’t want parliament ousted him and replaced him with his daughter. Yet here we are acting as though our hands are even more tied behind our backs.

[Breccia]

Nixon resigned before he was impeached i believe it was andrew johnson that was impeached before clinton but my brain could be failing

Yes, and he was a "Democrat" in the same way that Lincoln was a "Republican". In other words, only if you ignore what they actually stood for and focus on the D and R.

[Kiri]

What I find funny is that at one point when the British had a king they didn’t want parliament ousted him and replaced him with his daughter. Yet here we are acting as though our hands are even more tied behind our backs.

Tbh, it's not really that their hands are tied. Half of Congress just flat out doesn't want to, because their power is tied to him. Replacing the king wasn't that much of a sacrifice to those in British parliament, but voting against Trump in the senate? That's pretty much political suicide for those senators. Their hands are not tied. They simply value their own good more than that of the nation, if they vote for him when they should not. The British parliamentarians , meanwhile, didn't have that problem, since they were better off personally and as a nation with another ruler.
That's just game theory/CHIA.

[Edge-]

"Current FBI Director"...so is Wray on the way out and he doesn't know it yet? Is he gettin the boot for disagreeing in the IG report, angring Trump?

[Paranoid Android]

������ BREAKING → The IG report proves Obama officials abused their FISA power to trigger an investigation into @realDonaldTrump's campaign.

Just more evidence Dems will break any rule or law to rig an election against Trump.

These crooked bureaucrats must be held accountable!

https://twitter.com/SteveScalise/sta...468672001?s=19

This is Congressman making a lie of the report.

[Edge-]

Also, there was a preview spot for a Fresh Air interview that reminded me about something.

Remember when Trump couldn't stop about how much he loved "his generals"? The years he went on about how much he loved them and how great they were?

At least since Mattis quit, I can't remember him much mentioning generals, especially not positively. It seems he's fallen out of love with the uniformed, star-studded men and women of military leadership as they haven't proven to be quite as compliant with his every request as he'd hoped/imagined.

Almost like "his generals" were never anything more than a political prop.

[Breccia]

Wray on the way out

Wray isn't backing up Trump's conspiracy theories so clearly he's not fit to head the FBI.

"Obama wire tapp!"
"Sir, that's not what happened."
"Well have an investigation that proves it!"
"Sir, Mueller made that part of his investigation, and he's as by-the-book and impartial as it gets."
"Well have a second investigation that proves it!"
"The DOJ IG did that, he didn't find anything either."
"Well have the director of the FBI get in on this!"
"FOX News just canceled --"
"Not that director, the other one! I already fired that one for failing to find evidence of Obama wire tapp!"
"Well, the other one also says there is no evidence."
"Then fire him too! How come all these people in intelligence keep investigating the White House and keep finding nothing?"
"Sir, read that back before you tweet it."
"This is unacceptable. Have Barr block the IG report and come up with something that actually means this whole thing was a bigly rigged witch hunt. I will not rest until the results of the investigation into Obama find something that he did wrong!"
"Sir, about the Emoluments Clause --"
"No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
"The extortion of Ukraine --"
"No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
"People in the White House pushing Trump properties and books --"
"No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
"The audit of your taxes --"
"No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
"Seizing private lands for the Wall --"
"No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
"The security clearances for your family that keep failing, and sir, your Russian-tracked phone --"
"No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
"The blatant nepotism of how government contracts are being handed out --"
"No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
"Which one, the Wall contract, the Amazon contract, the Huawei exceptions or the Puerto Rico ones?"
"All of them. Jeez. Why can't people just accept the results of the President when he said nothing wrong happened?"
"Sir, we have a conference call, Manafort, Flynn, Gates, Stone, Papadoupolus, and Cohen, all calling from prison."
"I don't know these people."

[D3thray]

There is a lot to unravel in this reply.

On the one hand, of course not. All politicians are not trustworthy and unprincipled. The thing that's been striking is the degree to which Republicans have bent to accommodate Trump. That I did not expect. It's gone way further than I expect. They kneel to him to the extent that they let him fuck with their own power. Playing nice to the President by his party is to be expected - Congressional Democrats had no love of the Obama White House from a staffing and coordination standpoint, but they stood by them in public. But what Republicans have done has gone so much further. Democrats would not do this. Democrats have proven themselves more principled.

The second thing is, and this is paradoxical to the above, what's with the cult-like fealty to Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. These are, as we've said, unprincipled politicians. Since when did we start trusting politicians and thinking them people that should be actively defended, rather than used up and discarded? The manner in which Trump's base clings to him is unprecedented in our life times, and maybe all of American history. American Presidents have been wildly popular and loved before. But what Trump has brought out of his base and the things Sanders supporters say about their guy is straight out of Eastern European Cults of personality, 30 years ago.

So how do we reconcile this: on one hand, we're not supposed to be surprised in politicians are this unprincipled, but on the other hand, accept the fanatical and un-American loyalty to "Our Great President" (as the press office often calls him) offered by his base?

This is why I think of Trump's base - all 38-41% of the electorate - to be basically utter and complete moral cowards who I'm not really interested in having a conversation in, and more so interested in the ways we can inflict pain on them in the years ahead, starting with impeachment over the next week. Impeachment that will fail to remove Trump, but is just the start of the things we inflict on them to illustrate how unacceptable their moral compromise has been.

Basically the beatings will continue until they start acting like goddamn Americans again.

So all politicians are untrustworthy and unprincipled but Republicans are more so and damn those Bernie and Trump supporters they should exercise their freedom of speech the way I want. I support these 100% above board impeachment proceedings conducted by the untrustworthy and unprincipled politicians because I think it dunks on people I disagree with.

I mean I don’t agree at all and am blinded by the glaring internal inconsistencies of your position but you do you.