Why are people genuinely mad that Classic is a success?

[Gorgodeus]

So you are claiming Superdata is now Blizzard?

Yes, yes, I am clearly aware of what Blizzard said... yet, Blizzard did NOT verify the 223%, nor did they say anything about Triple... What part is so difficult? The finding the evidence to back the claim of 'Triple' (of which you haven't backed either) , or having the intellectual honesty to say 'In our haste to continue to tell you how star spangled awesome Classic is we fucking lied about how awesome it was.'...

I'm not disputing that Classic is 'successful'... I'm disputing the bullshit lie that was claimed about tripling subs, then the backtracking of tripling revenue, then the still unverified (by Blizzard) claim of 223%...

See above.

[Chaelexi]

Like, why are you seriously angry at the game, Blizzard for releasing, hoping it'll die soon etc? Why are you so mad one of the greatest games ever released actually still holds up?

Like.. Why not be happy for those who enjoy it?

First of all a success is not determined in 2 months. As for holding up that is pushing it and is evident by the volume of can we have....... threads and the fact that we are seeing numerous changes very early to the release plan because the flawed game is having issues. Make this thread in a year to 18 months when it can be determined to be a success.

[Echocho]

This sounds like typical private server player paranoia.

[Nathanyel]

I've corrected that guy now four or five times and he keeps making the claim. My best guess is that he's conflating the Superdata claim that "subs tripled from the last time we guessed" with Blizzard's claim at BlizzCon that "millions came back" for Classic.

That's just the way it is now, everywhere. Brazenly lie until everyone is too tired to call you out anymore. I mean, look at how they jumped on my comment which I prefaced with "from what I read" (admittedly forgetting "some weeks ago (so I can't be perfectly sure anymore)") and equated it to their bullshit, and therefore claiming "since both sides lie, I must be correct".

That Superdata stuff is unverifyable, and every news outlet, even Wowhead, just goes with the easy line "tripled subs" when there is no proof for that. There's even blatant contradictions like "most successful month, like, EVER" and "less earnings than from BfA launch".

[Recovery]

Live servers are also larger and far more numerous in quantity specifically to avoid queue times. Classic servers are smaller and less numerous to ensure healthy single server populations as there is no cross server play possible. Different mechanisms result in different outcomes.

Yeah, you quite literally just pulled that out of your rump. Link me ANYTHING that says that live servers are larger than classic servers? You also contradict your own point in your statement. It seems to me that most live servers are so dead that they in fact had to enable cross realm / linked realm functionality to ensure that players on some servers actually see OTHER PLAYERS. The facts are that once upon time (before cata) the subscriber count and population of the game actually warranted having so many servers. Those subscribers have fled the game in "YUUUUUGE" numbers since then, rendering (who knows, ill make up a number that soudns good) 56% of all live servers useless.

Whereas live wow should be consolidating and removing servers almost daily; for the first, what, month? of the classic launch, they had to continuously ADD servers to the list. There are several servers that STILL have Q times during prime time. There are some more dramatic than others, such as Faerlina, that has over a 2 hour Q time during prime time play. There are still several servers that have smaller Q times as well.

Im not arguing for or against either game. Personally, I am currently unhappy with live and have been since WOD. I am very happy with classic. It has fulfilled my nostalgia craving and has given / is continuing to give me something live doesnt... entertainment. I feel my characters progression instantly. Im not stuck endlessly grinding mythic keys to try to get a titanforged piece of gear or an azerite piece that has a trait my class is required to have or else its practically useless. Im not qing high rated arena games and being matched against a <insert class here> that was able to obtain a ridiculous trinket that was designed for tanks which allows them to almost be unkillable god mode. Im meeting new friends daily. i have to work to progress my character, it takes a while, no instant gratification, thankfully.

Everyone has a reason they prefer one game over the other. For some, they dont like having to travel to an instance... theyd rather push a button and be teleported there, so they prefer live. Others like to journey to the instance, meet a new friend along the way, help a fellow player out, etc...
Some people like having an actual reputation that follows you, i am one of those. On a classic server, youre stuck with your reputation.. there is no name changing, there is no server transferring... This is part of what made wow so great to begin with and the lack of it is part of what has made live so painful to play for others.

anyway, ive digressed and littered this post with tangents. ill stop. lol

[Specialka]

Yeah, you quite literally just pulled that out of your rump. Link me ANYTHING that says that live servers are larger than classic servers? You also contradict your own point in your statement. It seems to me that most live servers are so dead that they in fact had to enable cross realm / linked realm functionality to ensure that players on some servers actually see OTHER PLAYERS. The facts are that once upon time (before cata) the subscriber count and population of the game actually warranted having so many servers. Those subscribers have fled the game in "YUUUUUGE" numbers since then, rendering (who knows, ill make up a number that soudns good) 56% of all live servers useless.

Whereas live wow should be consolidating and removing servers almost daily; for the first, what, month? of the classic launch, they had to continuously ADD servers to the list. There are several servers that STILL have Q times during prime time. There are some more dramatic than others, such as Faerlina, that has over a 2 hour Q time during prime time play. There are still several servers that have smaller Q times as well.

Im not arguing for or against either game. Personally, I am currently unhappy with live and have been since WOD. I am very happy with classic. It has fulfilled my nostalgia craving and has given / is continuing to give me something live doesnt... entertainment. I feel my characters progression instantly. Im not stuck endlessly grinding mythic keys to try to get a titanforged piece of gear or an azerite piece that has a trait my class is required to have or else its practically useless. Im not qing high rated arena games and being matched against a <insert class here> that was able to obtain a ridiculous trinket that was designed for tanks which allows them to almost be unkillable god mode. Im meeting new friends daily. i have to work to progress my character, it takes a while, no instant gratification, thankfully.

Everyone has a reason they prefer one game over the other. For some, they dont like having to travel to an instance... theyd rather push a button and be teleported there, so they prefer live. Others like to journey to the instance, meet a new friend along the way, help a fellow player out, etc...
Some people like having an actual reputation that follows you, i am one of those. On a classic server, youre stuck with your reputation.. there is no name changing, there is no server transferring... This is part of what made wow so great to begin with and the lack of it is part of what has made live so painful to play for others.

anyway, ive digressed and littered this post with tangents. ill stop. lol

You are right. To each its own, some ppl like having content that require skill, some can't handle it and prefer Classic. To each its own.

[Lolites]

Did i state they were official blizz aproved numbers? Does that change at all the point that most of the ppl here cant stand wich is Classic brought TONS, TONS of ppl back into the game while most naysayers were hoping for it's failure. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.

have you ever heard about No man sky?
crapload of people preorder it, then asked for refund bcs it was crap, now did that make the game successfull? i dont think so

and with classic its the same, the initial burst of players (that was expected as it was there for each expansion start and in lesser values for each patch) was sure huge, but if most of those players left in a month or two, its not a huge success at all, especialy for mmorpg which is based on long progresion which classic is...

[riptal]

Some people just can't stand others enjoying something they dont like! Simple as that!

[arkanon]

I think its really sad that some classic fans are so desperate for validation. A good portion of the threads on the classic forums are a mix of the following:
- Hating on retail
- "defending" classic, even from other classic players / fans
- Greatly exaggerating the success of classic
- Greatly exaggerating the "failure" of retail
- Furiously attacking anyone who dares say anything 'negative' about Classic
- Blatantly ignoring all of classics glaring faults and issues

Generally i dont find the same true with retail - people openly discuss issues and concerns, and are free to put forward their 'negative' opinion. Some will disagree, some will agree, but open discussion seems far more welcomed.

I certainly dont think its "all" classic players that behave like this, i certainly try not to, but in general i find the classic community to be extremely toxic and there is an overwhelming resistance to any negative comments about the game.

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Some people just can't stand others enjoying something they dont like! Simple as that!

Is that why so many class fans hate retail players and are so aggressive towards them?

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Did i state they were official blizz aproved numbers? Does that change at all the point that most of the ppl here cant stand wich is Classic brought TONS, TONS of ppl back into the game while most naysayers were hoping for it's failure. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.

But did it? Your entire argument is based on made up numbers and data.

[Nynax]

Why are people genuinely convinced that everyone else is against them?

Person Negative: "The world is going to shit, everything's terrible and dangerous now!"

Person Sane: "Ok, when was the last time you actually had a fight?"

Person Negative: "I can't remember, the folk here are pretty normal! We've got a great community."

Person Sane: "Ok so...how is the whole world going to shit again?"

Person Negative: "Just watch the NEWS! Everything is falling apart all over the place!!!"

[arkanon]

Guess you don't realize that Superdata is the go to source for such data by companies all over the world. You don't get away with charging tens of thousands of dollars for a report unless your data is considered accurate.

They charge tens of thousands of dollars? Where did you find this value?

[MoanaLisa]

Guess you don't realize that Superdata is the go to source for such data by companies all over the world. You don't get away with charging tens of thousands of dollars for a report unless your data is considered accurate.

You can charge whatever you want. Neither you nor anyone else knows how many reports are sold. Nor do we know if Blizzard or ATVI generally reports any data to them that we don't see on their quarterly reports.

My own experience with Superdata is that if you track their reports over time, their assumptions are questionable, often leading to them reversing themselves in later months, reporting stuff that ends up not being true, or predictions that don't happen.

A few years ago they had a report saying that Blizzard would need to go all-in on microtransactions, much the same as F2P games have based on their sterling analysis of the revenue from a quarter where there were pre-sales and an expansion launch and the same quarter a year later when there was nothing of any consequence going on. It's was eye-rolling bad. Blizzard's micro-transaction model for WoW is much the same as it's ever been.

Interesting company but I wouldn't say that any of their data about ATVI and Blizzard specifically is based on anything other than assumptions.

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They charge tens of thousands of dollars? Where did you find this value?

https://www.superdataresearch.com/in...on=market-data

They are expensive. I'm not sure that means they're accurate. Again, if you want to judge Superdata Research's success as an institution you need to know how many copies of their reports they are selling, whether sold at a discount, and who to. We'll never know that so it's fine to withhold any judgement on their accuracy.

[FelPlague]

Absolutely agree with this. People think they enjoy retail, but they don't.

so.. you think you do... but you dont?
where have we heard that before.

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Listen, if classic was as good as you say - maybe you wouldn't have to defend it so hard. Just because the games hot garbage doesn't mean you have to always defend it alright ))))) No really tho I'm glad Classic is kicking ass - hopefully it will give blizz more money so Retail can get more devs kakakakakakaka

As ive always said.
if your game is so great why arnt you playing it?
why are you on forums telling other people how good it is, and how much better it is then every other game ever.
that is not the symptoms of a good game, that is the symptoms of a bad thing that someone needs to justify, by making everything else look worse.

[arkanon]

They are expensive. I'm not sure that means they're accurate. Again, if you want to judge Superdata Research's success as an institution you need to know how many copies of their reports they are selling, whether sold at a discount, and who to. We'll never know that so it's fine to withhold any judgement on their accuracy.

Just had a quick look and i see they are like,.....$2,000? am i missing something? Where did they (not you i realize) come up with "tens of thousands of dollars". That would mean $20,000 - $90,000 in my book, not $2,000.

It amazes me how dishonest and disingenuous people can be on these forums just to desperately try and push their agenda.

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so.. you think you do... but you dont?
where have we heard that before.

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As ive always said.
if your game is so great why arnt you playing it?
why are you on forums telling other people how good it is, and how much better it is then every other game ever.
that is not the symptoms of a good game, that is the symptoms of a bad thing that someone needs to justify, by making everything else look worse.

If you read my posts as well in this thread its the same question - why are SOME of the classic fans so desperate to defend "their" game that they constantly lie and grossly exaggerate things to push their agenda. In this thread alone someone claimed certain data was reliable because it costs "tens of thousands of dollars". Turns out it costs $2k, and thats just the general public full price, before taking into account any discounts, if they got charged at all.

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You really have to be out there to think one month of increased subs = success

I agree entirely with this comment.

[Laqweeta]

If you consider the slugfest that's happening on realms atm a success then go see a shrink.

literally 90% of my friendlist don't log in anymore because of the honor system.

being camped constantly and wasting 3-4 hours to reach a dungeon is not something I would call successful.

Should've rolled on a PvE realm, what did you think was going to happen? lmao

[arkanon]

Should've rolled on a PvE realm, what did you think was going to happen? lmao

Many people thought it would be closer to how it was in BC / Wrath - PVP hotspots and locations to avoid at certain times of day, but generally, avoidable Wpvp for the most part. Even many who played Vanilla dont remember it being as bad as it is currently. I for one leveled 1-60 twice in vanilla and other than the odd little frustrating times, it was pretty smooth sailing really.

To be clear - i rolled on pve for my 'main' in classic because i suspected the pure boredom of Classic would result in this type of behavior. I do still enjoy my alt though, which is pvp.

[Jonnusthegreat]

If 1 person is playing Classic instead of retail, my retail experience is worsened because that's fewer people on retail. It's a zero-sum situation.

[themaster24]

Won't really dispute much of what you say, it's presented reasonably, but i do recomend you to take a look at this thread for example.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-than-current

Bare in mind this was before blizz anounced classic and it's just one of many. What you see there is many, many folks that for sure can't stand classic's sucess, not the attempt to temper claims, but just plain vitriol. And after dealing with these kinds of arguments for years my tolerance for hipocrisy runs short.

It's very much different to play retail and hope for classic failure or that it wont even be released as shown in that thread, and playing classic and hoping retail not to fail but just to be different, regardless of how unatainable that might me at this point since it's a ship that long sailed.

For starters, as you noted, that thread was 3 years ago, well before classics announcement, so for the sake of being pedantic, no one can be decrying Classic's success in this thread. Furthermore, as crappy as it may be, people saying (at that point or after Classics announcement) that Classic will likely fail or that "you will see how bad it is", is not people wanting it to fail. Believing something will fail and wanting it to are two totally different things. I personally think that Classic will struggle as the months go on, steadily losing active players, but I don't hope for that to happen, and want to be pleasantly surprised. That's just my personal view on the matter. On the other hand, I hope CoD crashes and burns as a franchise, but I will readily admit that it will likely never do so, as I know it's wildly popular.

I understand that people being nasty in regards to something you enjoy or are excited about feels really, really awful. Someone telling you that you're stupid for wanting/liking Classic, or that they can't wait to see "the tears" when it fails is crazy negative. However, you're conflating their belief that the game won't be a success (or that you won't like it) to mean they intrinsically want it those things, which is not necessarily the case.

As far as people that "can't stand it's success", yet again, I have seen practically no people who have legit been upset/angry at WoW being a success. I have seen people deny that it's successful, which is baffling to me (and the closest I might give to someone not being able to stand the success). I've seen people say "wait until XYZ" (i.e. before Honor was introduced, "let's see how the react when they're getting farmed by raids all day"). I've seen people be frustrated/mad with people making nonsensical statements about Classic or Retail (just look at how many "Retail/Classic is better than Classic/Retail threads pop up every week). Yet I can't distinctly recall a single person who was just angry/upset that Classic has thus far been successful.

Side note:

I bolded that last note because it genuinely sounds like you're implying that players who prefer retail, in general, want the downfall of classic, whereas all players who prefer classic want everything to exist in perfect harmony. This is the kind of extreme statement I was mentioning earlier, where people get angry at "Classic" players. Disregarding the retail player aspect, as I've already touched on that, there are Classic (as with Retail) players out there who exclaim that retail should change it's system to be like Classic, or that Classic will kill retail. Note, I did not say Classic players who want retail to die, rather Classic players who believe retail is bad/garbage/missing the mark, and believe the only way to save WoW is by making it adopt all these Classic systems, and that if they don't Classic will bury retail.

Guess you don't realize that Superdata is the go to source for such data by companies all over the world. You don't get away with charging tens of thousands of dollars for a report unless your data is considered accurate.

I know full well what Superdata is, but that doesn't make their data in this kind of situation accurate. It's even been noted on multiple occasions that the methods which Superdata generates their reports is inherently flawed, and prone to considerable error. They make educated guesses, but they are just that, guesses.

[trapmaster]

I'm not even mad, been thru vanilla in the past and here we are... Doing the same goddamn route we are going for..... Nostalgia bs....

[Relapses]

If 1 person is playing Classic instead of retail, my retail experience is worsened because that's fewer people on retail. It's a zero-sum situation.

What? Even if that person logs off after doing an emissary, logs into Classic to do a dungeon then logs back into retail to complete another emissary?

I'm usually considered very pro-retail but I'm not sure how you're getting zero sum unless you assume somebody who stops playing retail to play Classic will forever play Classic or somebody who stops playing Classic to play retail is now only ever going to play retail. The fact that you can play both games is the opposite of a zero sum game. Am I missing something?