Classic AV is the biggest disappointment

[Kchir]

AV is like this because of the players. If people want to pvp in AV, they can do so by fighting the enemy zerg. Instead, BOTH sides choose to ignore eachother and only do the pve objective. Even if AV was released in its original state, you wouldn't get the same experience. People would just leave after an hour because there's no more honor to be had and the other players on their faction are farming honor faster than they are.

[Monster Hunter]

i mean, they could have had classic start at the beginning, but with how people are pushing for content to be released faster and faster, i cant imagine it would have gone over well.

Contents a seperate thing, this is specifically about AV. and the distinct problem that the version of AV in 1.12 was the worst iteration of AV on wows history, it was the version post all the nurfs but pre all the balancing, boss and Tower changes, it was this specific version that spawned the zerg strat but befor any balancing was done to hamper the zerg strat.

What this means is that not only is it simply just a less fun version of AV than any other including retails and even current korak's revenge but it's also a version that dosnt fulfill the spirit of classic in recreating vanilla and what people rember from vanilla, AV is a big part of that nostalgia because it was an experience many talked about and yet retail has the closer experience to what AV was during most of vanilla with the anerversary event than classic does.

[Itori]

People are expecting players today to play like they did 15yrs ago xD the game is packed full of "meta" and try hards, of course bgs aren't going to be played the same way. Don't blame blizzard for giving you what you want, blame yourselves for creating the environment and mentality that festers classic.

[munkeyinorbit]

Contents a seperate thing, this is specifically about AV. and the distinct problem that the version of AV in 1.12 was the worst iteration of AV on wows history, it was the version post all the nurfs but pre all the balancing, boss and Tower changes, it was this specific version that spawned the zerg strat but befor any balancing was done to hamper the zerg strat.

What this means is that not only is it simply just a less fun version of AV than any other including retails and even current korak's revenge but it's also a version that dosnt fulfill the spirit of classic in recreating vanilla and what people rember from vanilla, AV is a big part of that nostalgia because it was an experience many talked about and yet retail has the closer experience to what AV was during most of vanilla with the anerversary event than classic does.

Need to see a source on that opinion. I'm looking forward to 5 min AV. If it is that short then I think it is probably the best version.

[Monster Hunter]

AV is like this because of the players. If people want to pvp in AV, they can do so by fighting the enemy zerg. Instead, BOTH sides choose to ignore eachother and only do the pve objective. Even if AV was released in its original state, you wouldn't get the same experience. People would just leave after an hour because there's no more honor to be had and the other players on their faction are farming honor faster than they are.

Retail currently has korocks revenge, the really original version of AV and yea it dosnt last a whole weekend anymore but its a damn sight closer to the cluster fuck people remember and want to experience of vanilla AV.

1.12 AV had a huge number of changes from original AV and was the version that had the worst of the zerg tactic, this wasn't a player innovation suddenly, it was a result of the changes, namely the removal of well over half of the elite pve mobs that had the purpose of preventing zergs from being effective and actualy forcing people to pvp there way across the map slowly.

1.12 AV was post there removal but also pre the introduction of tower bosses buffing each other. That ment there was litteraly nothing to stop a team zerging stright to the boss room and aoeing everything down and as alliance had map advantage they got there first 90% of the time.

Go on retail and play koraks revenge, that's what people were expecting of classic AV. So I can fully understand classic players disappointment at getting the worst ever version of AV whilst retail players who imo don't really appreciate it get a much better replication of the original experience.

[FelPlague]

"WoW Icon update.png Patch 1.5.0 (2005-06-07):
The eruptions from the lava in Ragnaros's Lair will now always happen while Ragnaros is in combat. However, these lava eruptions occur less frequently, do less damage, and the damage they inflict is now resistible.
The maximum range of the Wrath of Ragnaros spell has been increased."

I've resisted lava splash so I feel like it must be in?

bug fix not nerf.
the fight originally he didnt always use the spell
so as you can see, they fixed it so he will actually use it.
but that would just make the fight harder, so to counter that, they nerfed the damage of them.

so a bug fix, not a fight nerf

something wasnt happening, so it was fixed
but then that means the fight would suddenly be harder, so it was brought back.
this has happened to countless bosses and fights.

[Monster Hunter]

Need to see a source on that opinion. I'm looking forward to 5 min AV. If it is that short then I think it is probably the best version.

Took less than 5mins in 1.12 especially when people were geared mostly in raid gear.

1.12 AV litteraly was run to boss and nuke boss, ignore towers and everything.

Also alliance always win because its a shorter run for them.

It was broken and they did alot of work in tbc to try and fix it.

People found it less fun and complained which is why the tower mobs got there super buffs to force players to have to take the towers at least.

If u don't want vanilla AV why are you playing classic?

[Clozer]

World record av in 2006 - 3 minutes 40 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2yDzcer7Ig

So 5 minutes av is already a bad run.

[Sharein]

Yeah, great, there goes the one thing I was looking forward to.

Ah well. No classic for me.

[Monster Hunter]

People are expecting players today to play like they did 15yrs ago xD the game is packed full of "meta" and try hards, of course bgs aren't going to be played the same way. Don't blame blizzard for giving you what you want, blame yourselves for creating the environment and mentality that festers classic.

So whys koraks revenge on retail being played the way it was?

Zerg happend because most of the elite mobs were removed befor 1.12.

Seriously go log koraks revenge which is the real original AV map and cross ref it with 1.12 AV on classic and modern retail AV. 1.12 AV is the fastest and is more like modern reta AV than koraks revenge and original vanilla AV.

That's why people are disappointed.

[OokOok]

It's because we didn't get classic AV
We got 1.12 AV

old AV died by the time 1.10 came out.

They made all these changes because of the marks of honor system which really didn't work well with long AV.Imo the reward scheme was flawed and not the BG,but either way it lead to AV getting shorter and shorter,the 1.12 version being notoriously a 5 minutes boss rush


PS : BfA AV is unironically harder,longer and more involved than 1.12 AV,which is quite sad

Because the bosses are scaled, where as in Classic 1.12 it has the set scaling it did when the game came out. With 1.12 everything is nerfed, you think we'd be doing 20sec ragnaros kills if it was the first patch like when Vanilla was released? I don't think players grasp just how much of a buff this patch is to classic

[Monster Hunter]

World record av in 2006 - 3 minutes 40 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2yDzcer7Ig

So 5 minutes av is already a bad run.

Crazy thing is that's a rare hord win and they have a longer run to the boss which I why the usualy lost.

I'd wager that there's faster AV kills in 1.12 than 3 mins by the alliance but just not recorded.

- - - Updated - - -

Because the bosses are scaled, where as in Classic 1.12 it has the set scaling it did when the game came out. With 1.12 everything is nerfed, you think we'd be doing 20sec ragnaros kills if it was the first patch like when Vanilla was released? I don't think players grasp just how much of a buff this patch is to classic

Mate..... They removed most of the pve elite mobs from AV by 1.12, and changed the map loads.

It's not lack of scaling, best will in the world you guys only have t1 max and that's far from great gear, befor the AV changes the zerg run was stopped by the cluster fuck of elite mobs between players and the bosses that gave the opposition time to also defend. And as they defended they gathered items to spawn even more elite mobs and some bosses and all sorts that posed more than enough challenge to crappy tier 1 geared players.

But all that was gone by 1.12 but the also hadn't yet added the tower mini boss buffing stuff.

[Miv333]

Isn't it exactly what Alterac Valley was in 1.12? If so the players are ruining it not blizzard.

I wish, but no. In Vanilla you could queue with party, and when they nerfed that you could still kinda queue with addon. But in classic because of a change in the legion client and because cross server bgs are region wide, it's nearly impossible to even play with someone from your own server. Everyone is in AV for themselves. There is very little advanced coordination.

[garicasha]

I really think designated weekends where AV functioned in the old weekend-long manner would be very popular and not that difficult to implement.

GD I didn’t realize there were no tower buffs, I thought that was 1.12

[Monster Hunter]

I really think designated weekends where AV functioned in the old weekend-long manner would be very popular and not that difficult to implement.

GD I didn’t realize there were no tower buffs, I thought that was 1.12

Was mid tbc they added the tower buffs if memory serves.

Edit: warmasters buffing each other came in 2.4
Warmasters being aggro linked came in 2.3

1.8 AV changes were for the record

Removal of syndicate, gnolls and trolls.
Massive map changes and graveyards pushed back
Removal of korrack
All npc's being nurfed between 15% and 30%

1.7
Bonus honour for finishing without own towers being destroyed.

[sibut]

I, too, hate super quick rep gains and the ability to get exalted quickly.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

Sooner or later most players will realize that you can counter the zerg by sending a group of players to sit in with the boss especially if a decent chunk of players are still using 60% mounts. It's like a modifier version of camping Galv or Bal but since they are ignored you just compensate.

Kill the zerg and watch how many players think they wanted Classic AV but don't actually want it because it takes more than 8 minutes to finish a game.

[ONCHEhap]

Because the bosses are scaled, where as in Classic 1.12 it has the set scaling it did when the game came out. With 1.12 everything is nerfed, you think we'd be doing 20sec ragnaros kills if it was the first patch like when Vanilla was released? I don't think players grasp just how much of a buff this patch is to classic

that's besides my point.AV went through heavy mechanical every patch since 1.6 that aimed to make it faster and faster,1.12 is the culmination of that,where AV is designed to be done in 5 minutes.

[Fritters154]

Seriously, people aren't even capping anything. It's 5 minute games.

Why would you cap things when you don't need to cap things? The 1.12 version of AV was so heavily nerfed that Vann and Drek were the only objectives that even mattered.

[Very Tired]

Sooner or later most players will realize that you can counter the zerg by sending a group of players to sit in with the boss especially if a decent chunk of players are still using 60% mounts. It's like a modifier version of camping Galv or Bal but since they are ignored you just compensate.

Kill the zerg and watch how many players think they wanted Classic AV but don't actually want it because it takes more than 8 minutes to finish a game.

Yeah, it wasn't classic but I actually have fond memories of single-handedly ruining AV achievement zergs. All I did was camp in stealth in the boss room on my lone rogue, wait until the tank ran in, and cheap shot stun him as all the mobs pile onto him. He was dead within a second and the zerg fell apart without him.