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  1. #301
    Mechagnome Vrinara's Avatar
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    I need the gif of Carl Weazer screaming "STOP IT! STOP IT! CAN'T YOU SEE THIS FIGHTING IS TEARING US ALL APAAAART!!!!!"

    Can't we nerds just get along and let people play what they want? Oh right... It's the internet. Full of cry babies.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    You... You do know that fictional story telling is literally all just made up shit right? Every story in Warcraft is just made up shit. All the good story and all the bad story, just shit they made up at one point or another. They need to continue making shit up one way or another, because some shit will be shit still but some shit will still be decent. A lot of people still enjoy a lot of the shit they make up.
    Yeah but it used to be made up by people who actually had talent and loved the world they were creating. Now those people are gone and its a bunch of people trying to carry on that vision in order to make money for a multi-billion dollar corporation. You are right though, some people like it and I'm fine with that (I'm not fine with it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tweedzz View Post
    Mod seems to disagree with you on that point, at least in terms of raw interest. Unfortunately, we have no real way to be certain of the numbers for either/both games.

    Anecdotally, my experience has been most of my guild/friends dropping classic at about the 2 month mark. I am personally hoping it does well enough to merit BC servers.
    That mod was making a coherent argument created through a rational process and I'm incapable of doing that.

  3. #303
    Because people hate when they're proven wrong. Blizzard white knights had been hating on the idea of having classic servers because in their minds retail is perfectly fine(everything blizzard does is fine), and there was no need for classic.

    Look at a guy like Towelliee. He would spew all sorts of hate when people asked anything about classic wow on his stream. Then classic wow comes out, it's a huge success. All of a sudden Towelliee jumps on the bandwagon and plays classic more than he does retail, because nobody wants to watch retail other than Method's race to world 1st.

    I couldn't care less personally. I don't play either.
    Last edited by Ulfric Trumpcloak; 2019-12-11 at 10:50 PM.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    No, it does not assume that everyone plays in such a way. I have evidence that it worked in such a way at least one time. That proves my point. I do not need to show it works for all, but for at least one. I know one person in which this is the case. Therefore, Classic lowered population on my realm by at least 1. If at least one person doesn't play retail because of Classic, it is net negative.
    The statement I replied to was you saying it was a Zero-Sum. I countered by explaining how it's not a Zero-Sum, and now you are just shifting the goal post. If what you want to say is that, Classic has taken some number of people away from Retail permanently, that's fine. It still does not make it Zero-Sum.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    The statement I replied to was you saying it was a Zero-Sum. I countered by explaining how it's not a Zero-Sum, and now you are just shifting the goal post. If what you want to say is that, Classic has taken some number of people away from Retail permanently, that's fine. It still does not make it Zero-Sum.
    You would think it'd be easier to simply admit they used the term incorrectly. Nature of posting on forums I guess. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    The statement I replied to was you saying it was a Zero-Sum. I countered by explaining how it's not a Zero-Sum, and now you are just shifting the goal post. If what you want to say is that, Classic has taken some number of people away from Retail permanently, that's fine. It still does not make it Zero-Sum.
    I knew you didn't understand the discussion from the start. Anything non-retail time gained is retail time lost. The literal definition of zero sum.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Why yes indeed
    My point being that is such a tiny percentage of the playerbase, it is an absolutely terrible metric to use when comparing expacs.

  8. #308
    Dreadlord Averrix's Avatar
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    I don't care about either. I just play what I want to play and let everyone else do what they want to do. People that have to say one is better than the other and bash each other over it are just trying to stroke their ego.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Considering Blizz said wow classic tripled wows subs, I’d say it’s a success.

    My realm Herod has queue times that are bigger than the entire population of my 3 retail realms combined
    Tripled subs for... 1 month. During the middle of content in retail. Then nostalgia wore off and you lost a chunk. Then the terribly delivered honor system and you lost another chunk...

    How do you define success? If it pulled in a bunch of subs for 1 month, is that a success? If so then I'd say it is about on par with any retail expansion, because I'd bet those pull in about the same increase of subs and fizzle out similarly as classic is doing.

    Or do you define success as truly giving the "vanilla experience"? In that regard, I think it is less successful for a couple of reasons that I won't go into detail here.

  10. #310
    I liked Classic for what it was worth, but this sets a dangerous precident. Why bother spending money and time innovating new games, when we can rehash and release the same old stuff from bygone eras? We're seeing it more and more with rereleases. I think only Square have got their heads on straight in this regard, as they're making FF7 completely different game play wise.
    RETH

  11. #311
    Herald of the Titans Alex86el's Avatar
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    that's the first time i hear of such a thing.
    i've literally never heard anyone be mad that classic is doing good. not even retail players.
    a lot of people are actually positive, and even people who dont play it, and even people that have never played it.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    because nobody wants to watch retail other than Method's race to world 1st.
    Lol. Asmongold recently stated he is going back to mostly streaming retail because watching classic is boring and he'd get more viewers doing retail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    in their minds retail is perfectly fine
    A lot of people who prefer retail (myself included) would not argue that retail is perfectly fine, but would argue that there is a reason the game is different. For me, the difference between the goods and bads in retail outweighs the difference of the goods and bads in classic. Doesn't mean one is objectively better than the other, just that one is preferred.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    that's the first time i hear of such a thing.
    i've literally never heard anyone be mad that classic is doing good. not even retail players.
    a lot of people are actually positive, and even people who dont play it, and even people that have never played it.
    Yeah why would anyone be mad that people came back to WoW for classic? I guess if entire guilds left retail for it that could be annoying, but I feel like retail has actually gained population since classic's release, and it should result in even more players considering trying shadowlands, which is a big plus for anyone who prefers retail.

  13. #313
    ummm are you playing the same game we are, its anything but success

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    I knew you didn't understand the discussion from the start. Anything non-retail time gained is retail time lost. The literal definition of zero sum.
    That is not the definition of Zero-Sum. Zero-Sum requires exact balance on both sides. If any person plays classic, it MUST be a -1 to retail, and +1 to Classic, and vice versa. For it to be Zero-Sum, that is required from every single point of reference, not just some individuals. It simply cannot be Zero-Sum. You can not like it all you want, but that is how Zero-Sum works. What you are exhibiting is Zero-Sum bias, which is a human predisposition to believe certain things are Zero-Sum when they are not, because they see someone/somethings loss as gain to someone/something else.

  15. #315
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    I mean Classic and Retail will always have "It's dying!" proponents probably for the rest of time. That is how it has always been and always will be. Classic is definitely a success in Blizzards eyes though, for how little they needed to spend for decent returns.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    That is not the definition of Zero-Sum. Zero-Sum requires exact balance on both sides. If any person plays classic, it MUST be a -1 to retail, and +1 to Classic, and vice versa. For it to be Zero-Sum, that is required from every single point of reference, not just some individuals. It simply cannot be Zero-Sum. You can not like it all you want, but that is how Zero-Sum works. What you are exhibiting is Zero-Sum bias, which is a human predisposition to believe certain things are Zero-Sum when they are not, because they see someone/somethings loss as gain to someone/something else.
    The sides are Retail and Not Retail. You've made assumptions that were incorrect and it hindered your ability to contribute to a reasonable counterpoint. You seem to understand zero sum, but not its presence in the relevant discussion. You seem to be exhibiting the Dunning-Kruger effect (as well as general arrogance).
    Last edited by Jonnusthegreat; 2019-12-12 at 12:12 AM.

  17. #317
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    The sides are Retail and Not Retail. You've made assumptions that were incorrect and it hindered your ability to contribute to a reasonable counterpoint. You seem to understand zero sum, but not its presence in the relevant discussion. You seem to be exhibiting the Dunning-Kruger effect (as well as general arrogance).
    No, there's another side that rarely bothers to post in threads like this. Putting aside people that don't play at all, that third group thinks both games are OK for what they are and aren't interested in being forced to choose one over the other.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    It's easy to say somebody doesn't understand statistics when you disagree with what somebody says these statistics represent.

    No matter how you dress it, Superdata is guessing. And any claim that "subs tripled" is simply comparing one set of guessed numbers to another set of guessed numbers.
    No, it is easy to say when someone says something that proves their ignorance on the matter of statistics, such as you did.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgodeus View Post
    No, it is easy to say when someone says something that proves their ignorance on the matter of statistics, such as you did.
    Rofl, because statistics have anything to do with a company whose entire fucking existence is founded on professional guesswork? Lord.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by RWQ View Post
    But WoW retail and WoW classic aren't the only things they can do with their time. It could be they'd have been playing baseball instead.

    I regularly play two+ different games now. There's no reason WoW and other WoW can't be two games I play and compete for my time against both each other and other games/hobbies.

    Your original claim of "if someone is in classic they're not in retail" doesn't hold up, because those aren't the only options. If classic didn't exist, I'd spend that time playing another game instead of Retail. Retail doesn't get that time either way.

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    I just want to do BC PVP as a faceroll braindead warrior instead of lowest-representation-in-high-rating-by-far hunter.

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    It seems like a lot of people view the RTS and maybe books as the "real" lore, and basically treat wow as though it was fanfic that had no real association with the official lore.
    Dude most people here don't even know about the books. And most of the other's that do, they are pissed that lore isnin books not the game.

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