[UK] General Election 2019

[Mayhem]

A just transition to well-paid, unionised, green jobs available for all;wait a minute..

Considering that sustainable items are more expensive, working towards well-paid jobs you can't get fired from at any time is not surprising.

A green industrial revolution expanding public, democratic ownership as far as necessary for the transformation;so "green" nationalisation of everything?

The worst offenders are private companies, also it says "as far as necessary" that could mean anything.

Assuring everyone’s basic rights through the provision of social services;How's that green??

A healthier population decreases healthcare spending, health facilities have been estimated to account for 8% of green house gas emissions in the US.

Increasing taxes on the top % to pay for new green provisions and services;I see what you're doing here

You mean having the worst offenders pay the largest share?

[Thalassian Bob]

*loud deflating balloon air escaping noise*

Fuck sake, Britain.

Don't know why you're deflated. This election result is such a wonderfully clear message to the Remoaner elite who have spent the last 3 years trying to undermine Brexit (and by extension British democracy) in every way they can - "If you try to act like you are our rulers, we will remind you that you are our servants.".

I'm puffing up with pride at the thought of being an Englishman at the moment. I spent the last few years thinking, "Why is there not more mobilisation against these Remoaner tyrants trying to undermine democracy?", "Why aren't we out in the streets like the Gilets Jaunes in France?". But, I like I think many others did, underestimated the stubborn patience of the British voting public. We quietly bid our time, tutting at the headlines, rolling our eyes at the TV until we were given another opportunity to express our opinion in that quintessentially British way, at a well-organised and quiet ballot station on a rainy day.

And the message of the British public was clear, "Do what you have been asked to do or we will be rid of you! Thank you very much!".

[fwc577]

Now we wait for Labour to decide that the only way to beat the Sith is to become them (again), thus making the whole exercise pointless.

Then the Tories will see Labour moving to the centre and respond by moving further right because they can get away with it.

In the meantime, we get to enjoy at least five more years of defunded public services, rampant poverty, unemployment and homelessness, all because people got upset at the people trying to stop them from voting their human rights and food standards away.

This fucking country.

This is America, don't catch me... Wait, this is the UK thread.

[Blayze]

Don't know why you're deflated. This election result is such a wonderfully clear message to the Remoaner elite who have spent the last 3 years trying to undermine Brexit (and by extension British democracy) in every way they can - "If you try to act like you are our rulers, we will remind you that you are our servants.".

I'm puffing up with pride at the thought of being an Englishman at the moment. I spent the last few years thinking, "Why is there not more mobilisation against these Remoaner tyrants trying to undermine democracy?", "Why aren't we out in the streets like the Gilets Jaunes in France?". But, I like I think many others did, underestimated the stubborn patience of the British voting public. We quietly bid our time, tutting at the headlines, rolling our eyes at the TV until we were given another opportunity to express our opinion in that quintessentially British way, at a well-organised and quiet ballot station on a rainy day.

And the message of the British public was clear, "Do what you have been asked to do or we will be rid of you! Thank you very much!".

At the behest of the Brexiteer elite who want to drive down the food standards, public services and rights that help keep people safe, fed and alive, all so they can make more money by selling the country out to American business interests.

And they managed to do so by convincing the people that Tories had fucked over for decades that not only were the Tories were going to save them, but that also it was the fault of the opposition parties for daring to oppose the Tories.

Now the Tories have the majority required to do what the fuck they want, and historically that's always been to fuck over the poor and vulnerable while bleating about the last Labour government.

Say goodbye to the NHS; our new American overlords will have a vested interest in doing what they always do: 'helping' anything that they think smells of socialism to die through the poor of economic pressure and threats of violence.

No doubt our local government budgets will get slashed to ribbons yet again this year.

[[Apok]]

The people have spoken, we don't want Corbynism, we want Brexit done. Boris don't fuck this up (the North remembers and will put you back in your box if you fail)

Considering only 48% of the voters voted for a party that wanted to get a brexit deal done, thats hardly that this is what people want.

I'll bet as with almost every "Brexiteer" you are unable to ocme up with a good reason as to why we should leave the eu, that isn't full of misinformation or lies.

Don't know why you're deflated. This election result is such a wonderfully clear message to the Remoaner elite who have spent the last 3 years trying to undermine Brexit (and by extension British democracy) in every way they can

Yet another indivudal who claims that the "remoaner elite" is acting against democracy. you don't really understand what democracy actually is LOL.

[Thalassian Bob]

At the behest of the Brexiteer elite who want to drive down the food standards, public services and rights that help keep people safe, fed and alive, all so they can make more money by selling the country out to American business interests.

And they managed to do so by convincing the people that Tories had fucked over for decades that not only were the Tories were going to save them, but that also it was the fault of the opposition parties for daring to oppose the Tories.

Now the Tories have the majority required to do what the fuck they want, and historically that's always been to fuck over the poor and vulnerable while bleating about the last Labour government.

Say goodbye to the NHS; our new American overlords will have a vested interest in doing what they always do: 'helping' anything that they think smells of socialism to die through the poor of economic pressure and threats of violence.

No doubt our local government budgets will get slashed to ribbons yet again this year.

There you go, belittling the public. Assuming they're all idiots just eating up whatever the Mail or Express tell them. That attitude is why your side lost this election so catastrophically and why the Labour party has lost some of its most die-hard loyal constituencies, some of which is has held since the 30s and 40s, to the Conservative party and has suffered its biggest defeat since the 1980s.

If you do not learn to give working-class voters more respect, you can expect to keep getting defeated like this for a long time to come.

Anyway, there are of course a few very wealthy and powerful people who support Brexit, but to claim that Brexiteers make up the elite is self-evidently untrue. The last parliament was 80% in favour of remain in contrast to the majority of the public who voted to leave the European Union. Brexit was opposed by almost all big businesses, the banks, the IMF etc. The landslide victory of the Tories in this election, which came at the expense of some of Labour's most secure seats, shows that the appetite for Brexit comes predominantly from the demos, not the elites.

Corbyn betrayed a lifetime of Euroscepticism in order to try and win over a very small but vocal block of cosmopolitan Labour party members and in doing so turned his back on Labour's historic working class base. Labour could have positioned themselves as proponents of a worker-oriented Brexit which would have given them big wins in the North, Midlands and Wales, but instead they tried to sell themselves to students and the middle class and were subsequently crushed.

Yet another indivudal who claims that the "remoaner elite" is acting against democracy. you don't really understand what democracy actually is LOL.

I understand that it's the assignment of views like yours to "the dustbin of history", to quote Trotsky - a favourite in Labour's current iteration.

[[Apok]]

There you go, belittling the public. Assuming they're all idiots just eating up whatever the Mail or Express tell them. That attitude is why your side lost this election so catastrophically and why the Labour party has lost some of its most die-hard loyal constituencies, some of which is has held since the 30s and 40s, to the Conservative party and has suffered its biggest defeat since the 1980s.

If you do not learn to give working-class voters more respect, you can expect to keep getting defeated like this for a long time to come.

Anyway, there are of course a few very wealthy and powerful people who support Brexit, but to claim that Brexiteers make up the elite is self-evidently untrue. The last parliament was 80% in favour of remain in contrast to the majority of the public who voted to leave the European Union. Brexit was opposed by almost all big businesses, the banks, the IMF etc. The landslide victory of the Tories in this election, which came at the expense of some of Labour's most secure seats, shows that the appetite for Brexit comes predominantly from the demos, not the elites.

Corbyn betrayed a lifetime of Euroscepticism in order to try and win over a very small but vocal block of cosmopolitan Labour party members and in doing so turned his back on Labour's historic working class base. Labour could have positioned themselves as proponents of a worker-oriented Brexit which would have given them big wins in the North, Midlands and Wales, but instead they tried to sell themselves to students and the middle class and were subsequently crushed.



I understand that it's the assignment of views like yours to "the dustbin of history", to quote Trotsky - a favourite in Labour's current iteration.

Claim people need to respect the working class more, and then dismiss the views of someone from said working class coming from one of poorer regions that has done nothing but suffer under tory rule simpyl because you have no counter-point.

Great way of self-defeating yourself there.

[Kronik85]

There you go, belittling the public. Assuming they're all idiots just eating up whatever the Mail or Express tell them. That attitude is why your side lost this election so catastrophically and why the Labour party has lost some of its most die-hard loyal constituencies, some of which is has held since the 30s and 40s, to the Conservative party and has suffered its biggest defeat since the 1980s.

I work in a warehouse in Stoke-on-Trent. AMA on how well informed they were on this election, I've got some real gems for you.

[Dhrizzle]

Don't know why you're deflated. This election result is such a wonderfully clear message to the Remoaner elite who have spent the last 3 years trying to undermine Brexit (and by extension British democracy) in every way they can - "If you try to act like you are our rulers, we will remind you that you are our servants.".

I'm puffing up with pride at the thought of being an Englishman at the moment. I spent the last few years thinking, "Why is there not more mobilisation against these Remoaner tyrants trying to undermine democracy?", "Why aren't we out in the streets like the Gilets Jaunes in France?". But, I like I think many others did, underestimated the stubborn patience of the British voting public. We quietly bid our time, tutting at the headlines, rolling our eyes at the TV until we were given another opportunity to express our opinion in that quintessentially British way, at a well-organised and quiet ballot station on a rainy day.

And the message of the British public was clear, "Do what you have been asked to do or we will be rid of you! Thank you very much!".

52% of voters opted for a party which was pro-Remain or wanted to scrap Johnson's deal and have a second referendum. It's a victory for the Conservatives, a victory for the billionaire elites and their millionaire lackeys but a big loss for democracy and the people of the UK, especially the millions of children living in poverty and those suffering from chronic or mental illness.

[DarkAmbient]

It's amazing listening to the Corbyn faithful who are still in complete denial https://twitter.com/SalmaYaqoob/stat...26773506318336

"Jeremy was proved right"

Utterly incredible.

[Monster Hunter]

This is America, don't catch me... Wait, this is the UK thread.

[Reyuna]

Don't know why you're deflated. This election result is such a wonderfully clear message to the Remoaner elite who have spent the last 3 years trying to undermine Brexit (and by extension British democracy) in every way they can - "If you try to act like you are our rulers, we will remind you that you are our servants.".

I'm puffing up with pride at the thought of being an Englishman at the moment. I spent the last few years thinking, "Why is there not more mobilisation against these Remoaner tyrants trying to undermine democracy?", "Why aren't we out in the streets like the Gilets Jaunes in France?". But, I like I think many others did, underestimated the stubborn patience of the British voting public. We quietly bid our time, tutting at the headlines, rolling our eyes at the TV until we were given another opportunity to express our opinion in that quintessentially British way, at a well-organised and quiet ballot station on a rainy day.

And the message of the British public was clear, "Do what you have been asked to do or we will be rid of you! Thank you very much!".

Hear hear. The remainiacs have stiffled, blocked, frustrated our vote for three and a half years. They have put up barriers in Parliment, along with the former speaker, roadblock after roadblock. They have run to the Courts time after time. They have called us stupid, thick, ignorant, racist, wrong and so on.

This is a victory for ordinary, decent, working people. We have resoundly rejected the terrorist appeasing, western hating, anti-semitic marxist. So proud of my country right now.

Oh and there will be people here that will quote you, and me, and rage against us.. let them They've done it for three and a half years.. the game is finally up.

[Monster Hunter]

Another tweet for you from last year: https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/s...73833462542336

Tories days are numbered, especially now that they will destroy the NHS we will probably see a rise in the mortality rate of the elderly.

People become conservative as they age. On the whole.

When those over 65s were young they complained about the stuffy old people holding them back.

That's a pattern of democracy that's never changed.

[DarkAmbient]

Another tweet for you from last year: https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/s...73833462542336

Tories days are numbered, especially now that they will destroy the NHS we will probably see a rise in the mortality rate of the elderly.

???

Whatever you need to tell yourself I suppose.

But the Tories aren't going to lose until Labour accept the reasons for their loss and take steps to ensure it doesn't happen next time.

[Thalassian Bob]

Claim people need to respect the working class more, and then dismiss the views of someone from said working class coming from one of poorer regions that has done nothing but suffer under tory rule simpyl because you have no counter-point.

Great way of self-defeating yourself there.

There was no point to counter, you just stated I didn't understand democracy without any further clarification. If you want to actually say something instead of just an extended "LOL", I'll happily offer a proper retort.

But that is LITERALLY what they did.
They promised to make a deal that would work for the working class base and put it to a referendum.
Tories and their media-lapdogs painted this as if Labour was anti-Brexit.

Not really, they said they'd go to Brussels to get a different deal (somehow in just a few months), then they'd make the first referendum completely redundant by conducting a second one where the only options on the ballot would be 1.) Take the new deal we've sought even though the majority of our MPs will campaign against it or 2.) Let's call the whole thing off. It was a preposterous proposal that they used to try please everyone but ended up pleasing no one.

They might have been able to keep some support if the options of their new referendum idea were - Our deal or No deal. But, they were too frightened to lose the support of the Momentum ilk.

Hear hear. The remainiacs have stiffled, blocked, frustrated our vote for three and a half years. They have put up barriers in Parliment, along with the former speaker, roadblock after roadblock. They have run to the Courts time after time. They have called us stupid, thick, ignorant, racist, wrong and so on.

This is a victory for ordinary, decent, working people. We have resoundly rejected the terrorist appeasing, western hating, anti-semitic marxist. So proud of my country right now.

Oh and there will be people here that will quote you, and me, and rage against us.. let them They've done it for three and a half years.. the game is finally up.

Thanks for the support, old bean! I'm glad someone else here is chuffed with yesterday's outcome.

I honestly don't trust the Tories as far as I could throw them with things like the NHS, housing, welfare etc. But, unfortunately BoJo's conservatives were the last chance the British demos had to achieve something that resembled what was voted for in the largest democratic exercise in British history (not overall turnout, but voter support for a specific choice before people try to gotcha me on that!) all those years ago now.

[Monster Hunter]

???

Whatever you need to tell yourself I suppose.

But the Tories aren't going to lose until Labour accept the reasons for their loss and take steps to ensure it doesn't happen next time.

You do know they guy called him self a Marxist a few pages back.

Those guys will happily lose every single election than have to give up a single step towards the political center.

And don't seem to see any moral problem with handing the right wing victory after victory just so that can maintain some pissy ideological purty no one gives a fuck about but them selves.

Wingers like him anger me so much because pandering to them leads to this shit.

[[Apok]]

There was no point to counter, you just stated I didn't understand democracy without any further clarification. If you want to actually say something instead of just an extended "LOL", I'll happily offer a proper retort.



Not really, they said they'd go to Brussels to get a different deal (somehow in just a few months), then they'd make the first referendum completely redundant by conducting a second one where the only options on the ballot would be 1.) Take the new deal we've sought even though the majority of our MPs will campaign against it or 2.) Let's call the whole thing off. It was a preposterous proposal that they used to try please everyone but ended up pleasing no one.

They might have been able to keep some support if the options of their new referendum idea were - Our deal or No deal. But, they were too frightened to lose the support of the Momentum ilk.



Thanks for the support, old bean! I'm glad someone else here is chuffed with yesterday's outcome.

I honestly don't trust the Tories as far as I could throw them with things like the NHS, housing, welfare etc. But, unfortunately BoJo's conservatives were the last chance the British demos had to achieve something that resembled what was voted for in the largest democratic exercise in British history (not overall turnout, but voter support for a specific choice before people try to gotcha me on that!) all those years ago now.

You claime that being against brexit is basically anti-thesis to democracy by claiming the "remoaner mps" were attempting to undermine democracy, there is more to democracy than most votes wins. Especially when the democratic process of said campaign was massively undermined in the first place

Hear hear. The remainiacs have stiffled, blocked, frustrated our vote for three and a half years. They have put up barriers in Parliment, along with the former speaker, roadblock after roadblock. They have run to the Courts time after time. They have called us stupid, thick, ignorant, racist, wrong and so on.

Because there are many, many people did vote based upon misinformation, not beng informed , being outright racist or xeno-phobis and well being plainly thick ad not understanding what they were voting for beyond "leave the eu" or how such a thing would affect us.

This is a victory for ordinary, decent, working people. We have resoundly rejected the terrorist appeasing, western hating, anti-semitic marxist. So proud of my country right now.

This isn't a victory, if anything you've vindicated their remarks of being thick, ignorant etc with this last statement. if you truly believe any of that.

[DarkAmbient]

You do know they guy called him self a Marxist a few pages back.

Those guys will happily lose every single election than have to give up a single step towards the political center.

And don't seem to see any moral problem with handing the right wing victory after victory just so that can maintain some pissy ideological purty no one gives a fuck about but them selves.

Wingers like him anger me so much because pandering to them leads to this shit.

One word seems to have been missing from the Labour leadership's vocabulary: pragmatism. Corbyn, McDonnell, they thought their Red Revolution was finally within their grasp and they went all in with their manifesto. And the British public, who fall overwhelmingly between the boundaries of soft left and soft right, weren't having any of it. And Corbyn certainly wasn't the right man to sell it to them.

I hope their 'period of reflection' ultimately makes the party electable again.

[PC2]

Because there are many, many people did vote based upon misinformation, not beng informed , being outright racist or xeno-phobis and well being plainly thick ad not understanding what they were voting for beyond "leave the eu" or how such a thing would affect us.

This isn't a victory, if anything you've vindicated their remarks of being thick, ignorant etc with this last statement. if you truly believe any of that.

You realize that this part isn't a real argument, right? Focusing on Brexit voters as people and not their arguments is ad hominem and should be avoided.

[Thalassian Bob]

A few counter-points:
1. The remain vote was divided over several parties.
2. Nobody knows for certain what sort of Brexit the Tories will end up delivering. People make assumptions based on the promises made by politicians, but....... campaign promises and actually delivering those promises when the axe of reality is hanging above your head are two worlds apart. The Tories might not get enough pro-Brexit MPs together within their own party.
3. As a European I am sort of in a win/win position, because there are no projections in which the UK wont end up shooting itself in the foot and in which the EU won't end up galvanized. Large europhile projects will no longer be vetoed by the UK: EU armies, more centralization etc.

1. It was, though so was the Brexit vote in some areas too. Yvette Cooper would have lost her seat if the Brexit party had elected not to stand in it, for example. But, yeah, I think with the SNP, Lib(NotSo)Dems and non-committal Labour party all fighting for the Remainer vote, they were probably more divided.

2. This is true. I think Boris' deal isn't great, to be honest. But it is the only iteration of Brexit that Leavers credibly have left and I believe it is paramount that the largest democratic mandate in British history be respected. A small part of me is being overly hopeful and wishing Boris would use his strong mandate now to put "No Deal" back on the table to pressure for something better from the EU, but I think he like so many others is bored of the whole thing now and just want to put it behind them. Far from ideal, but again, the best that can be hoped for unfortunately. I'm painfully aware he was a pretty non-committal Leaver from the beginning, but I think he's shrewd enough to realise that if he doesn't get us out now, he and the Conservative party are finished.

3. I'm happy that we can perhaps finally get out of the way if the rest of the Union is happy with movements towards further federalisation. Just because Britain voted to leave the EU, doesn't mean that the two bodies must suddenly become enemies. But, I wouldn't be so sure that every member state will be pulled further into the project, I imagine that nations like Italy, Denmark and Greece will be watching what happens to the UK in the next few years very carefully.

You claime that being against brexit is basically anti-thesis to democracy by claiming the "remoaner mps" were attempting to undermine democracy, there is more to democracy than most votes wins. Especially when the democratic process of said campaign was massively undermined in the first place

Not liking Brexit doesn't inherently make you anti-democratic. However, I would argue that actively trying to thwart the largest democratic mandate in our nation's history does make you an anti-democrat.

If Corbyn had won last night, I would be anxious, angry and disappointed, but I would not be attempting to oust him from No. 10 and I would not be pushing for another election next week to "try again to see if the people had changed their minds".

Also, there was dodgy shit happening on both sides of the referendum campaign, I won't fight you on that. But, regardless, if we are to give the demos the credit I believe they deserve, the outcome of that referendum must be respected.