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  1. #1061
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Maybe in some circles but to many the BBC is the only channel worth watching in the UK, and paying a pittance to ensure we're not bombarded with shitty adverts for the latest trash every ten minutes we're trying to watch something isn't even a sacrifice that is noticable.

    Moreover; I'm yet to encounter a single person who didn't want to pay it (and I've known plenty, I'm not trying to suggest it is "universally" popular because that would be dumb) and was forced to having failed to find a workaround. Again, maybe in some circles there isn't the wherewithal to avoid it.
    You have to get a TV license if you want to watch live TV. Period. Even if you don't watch the BBC.
    Why should I pay £150 to the BBC when I want to watch Sky Sports?

  2. #1062
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    There you go, belittling the public. Assuming they're all idiots just eating up whatever the Mail or Express tell them.
    Well... those have been pretty pro-Brexit and behold...

  3. #1063
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Well... those have been pretty pro-Brexit and behold...
    Thankfully it seems to be limited to the boomers(and above). Just gotta wait till they die off.

  4. #1064
    Some of the people in here arguing essentially not to give a homeless guy a tenner because it won't get them a house.

    Labour had 2 options this election, kick corbyn and go with policy's allready popular to win an end austerity then think about moving further left or try for one great big leap to socialism and hand the torys a free win.

    The choose the latter and are now calling every one else stupid, they are such complete morons, consumed by ideology over practicality they would rather see perpetual tory rule than park there stupid ideology for one election to actually help the working class even a little, and then they wonder why the working class has abandoned them.

    It's almost unbelievable the logic loops these guys are jumping through to defend destroying the Labour Party. Worst result for Labour since pre ww2 but some how there path was right because milliband didn't win either?? Milliband at least returned more seats and was fighting the hangover of Iraq still, you guys hae managed to make the labour party not only loose but hae such a small number of seats they are Completly ignorable for 5 years, but ofc its never there fault, my only hope is labour can weed there kind out and cadt them back into political obscurity,

    you can keep shouting about your corbyn labour, but your days are done, the liberals are taking back the party and your never getting a say again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarandis View Post
    Do you really want to goad people into pointing out your intellectual shortcomings MT? Because I could write a fucking book on that.

    Aside from your basic inability to spell or use grammar correctly to even a comprehensible level, there's the constant self-contradiction, the incessant repetition, the tiny limited and unimaginative use of language...the constant pontification on all matters political or economic despite the clear lack of any education on the subject at all as shown by a complete lack of references to poltical theory or literature outside of recent history...the constant failure to apply dates correctly to events...well, you get the idea.
    And yet I was right.

    How's that feel?

  5. #1065
    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    Labour would have won over 400 seats if only those below 50 voted, its clear where the real problem was, that and the focus on brexit.
    Democracy is a bitch, isn't it. And yes, Brexit was a problem for Labour, the problem being their strategy was terrible and they were punished accordingly.

  6. #1066
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Corbyn had some good policies but Britain hasn't voted in a government of Corbyn's colour since Attlee, and even then the circumstances were obviously extraordinary. The manifesto went OTT and the public were not convinced of its economic viability. Free broadband for everyone? People scratched their heads at that. The manifesto strategy was bad - they should have had the sense to get their foot in the door first before going all in.

    As research has shown, Corbyn was Labour's biggest stumbling block on the path to power. He was ineffectual and had too much baggage. With a toned down manifesto and a decent leader they will win. And by toned down, I mean soft left. That won't scare voters off.
    Yes but "THE NEXT LABOUR LEADER WILL RUIN THE ECONOMY!".

    It's staggering that posters in here aren't getting this. The moment a Labour leader tries to take on the billionaires and the vested interests in this country then that's what's going to be messaged by the media, relentlessly, until said leader is gone.

  7. #1067
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby B View Post
    You have to get a TV license if you want to watch live TV. Period. Even if you don't watch the BBC.
    Why should I pay £150 to the BBC when I want to watch Sky Sports?
    Like I say, I've not encountered anyone who didn't want to pay it (of whom I've known plenty) and ended up paying it. YMMV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  8. #1068
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Yes but "THE NEXT LABOUR LEADER WILL RUIN THE ECONOMY!".

    It's staggering that posters in here aren't getting this. The moment a Labour leader tries to take on the billionaires and the vested interests in this country then that's what's going to be messaged by the media, relentlessly, until said leader is gone.
    The way to 'take on the billionaires' and vested interests is to be smart. Corbyn and McDonnell weren't smart, they clumsily parroted 6th form student level politics, essentially holding up big signs saying "Watch out". Get your foot in the door first, then get to work.

  9. #1069
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarandis View Post
    To be honest I don't really care any more. I benefit personally from a Tory government and it is difficult to give a shit about people who continuously vote against their own interests.
    I think this is true for a lot of people. I find it interesting that people are saying Labour needs the working class, when it could well turn out that actually, the working classes need the 'managerial' or 'champagne socialists' who aren't going to bother thinking of those less fortunate in future becase they will simply bite the hand that feeds them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  10. #1070
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Labour had 2 options this election, kick corbyn and go with policy's allready popular to win an end austerity then think about moving further left or try for one great big leap to socialism and hand the torys a free win.
    God, how many times does this simple fact need to be explained to you? The policies that they chose WERE popular with people. Lots of people. Know who they weren't popular with? Billionaires. You know, the people that own papers and can afford to fund an enormous amounts of lies to be flooded onto Facebook. Hence a large number of people voted for a party funded by those billionaires with policies that weren't popular (apart from Brexit, of course).

    Your ability to ignore facts when presented to you in simple terms is almost as irritating as your determination to say that the media have no impact on people's positions while you spout "facts" that are in fact constant lies repeated by the media. Like the "fact" that the Labour policies weren't popular, for example.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  11. #1071
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarandis View Post
    Yes, the liberals are in the ascendant. You can tell by the way the Liberal Democrats did so well and Change UK really broke through.

    A cursory look at the betfair shows the combined probabilities favor another hard-left candidate as Labour leader, either Rebecca Long Bailey or Jess Philips. The only Blairite with a chance is Keir Starmer, who is a charisma vacuum and will lose another 30+seats to Johnson if elected.

    I never had a say in the first place. I thought about it but I haven't joined either Labour or Momentum. I wouldn't have voted for Corbyn even if I had: I just respect a democratic mandate-something you could learn from.

    To be honest I don't really care any more. I benefit personally from a Tory government and it is difficult to give a shit about people who continuously vote against their own interests.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes what you do is lull them into a true sense of security by doing exactly what they want. You then prove how mature and sophisticated you are by implementing the fag-end neo-liberal economics and blowing up the global economy. God help those greedy fatcats!
    So you didn't vote for corbyn, but you spent months I here being toxic and showing support for him?

    So basically your a double agent, looks like Jessicka and girlak have been supporting there own enemy then.

  12. #1072
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    God, how many times does this simple fact need to be explained to you? The policies that they chose WERE popular with people. Lots of people. Know who they weren't popular with? Billionaires. You know, the people that own papers and can afford to fund an enormous amounts of lies to be flooded onto Facebook. Hence a large number of people voted for a party funded by those billionaires with policies that weren't popular (apart from Brexit, of course).

    Your ability to ignore facts when presented to you in simple terms is almost as irritating as your determination to say that the media have no impact on people's positions while you spout "facts" that are in fact constant lies repeated by the media. Like the "fact" that the Labour policies weren't popular, for example.
    Clearly very popular. Didn't know there were soany billionaires voting across the country.

    You do realise a fsct is s OK meting you can back up with evidence and the GE result stands for its self.

    You can peddle all the conspiracy theory's you want, but the reality is corbyn lost what should hae been an easy election, what ever excuse you want to use to sleep at night is up to you. But don't for a second think any one will belive his policy was popular when they suffered the worst defeat since 1935, if it was a slim loss you might hae some credibility to your claim but not when the loss was that crushing.

  13. #1073
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Clearly very popular. Didn't know there were soany billionaires voting across the country.

    You do realise a fsct is s OK meting you can back up with evidence and the GE result stands for its self.

    You can peddle all the conspiracy theory's you want, but the reality is corbyn lost what should hae been an easy election, what ever excuse you want to use to sleep at night is up to you. But don't for a second think any one will belive his policy was popular when they suffered the worst defeat since 1935, if it was a slim loss you might hae some credibility to your claim but not when the loss was that crushing.
    I can't read this one myself, but the headline says it all.

    This Guardian article links to YouGov research that shows the policies are popular.

    An article from YouGov itself explaining the same thing.

    All easily available from a quick Google. All showing how wrong you are. I don't expect any of this to get through, however, you just seem too invested in your position to allow facts to sway you.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  14. #1074
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    I can't read this one myself, but the headline says it all.

    This Guardian article links to YouGov research that shows the policies are popular.

    An article from YouGov itself explaining the same thing.

    All easily available from a quick Google. All showing how wrong you are. I don't expect any of this to get through, however, you just seem too invested in your position to allow facts to sway you.
    Yes, people think that individual policies sound good. But the graph under the one you wanted us to look at shows that, when all the policies are taken as a whole, people didn't think they were affordable or that Labour would manage the economy well. But the most important policy of all - Brexit - is where Labour failed the most.

    Edit: I hope Tarandis isn't wasting his time replying to me, I put him on ignore some time ago.
    Last edited by DarkAmbient; 2019-12-14 at 02:12 PM.

  15. #1075
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    But that is the obvious part. Yes Labour is facing a massive media campaign against it. WHAT would be able to change that so it has a chance? Regulations. How can such regulations ever be created? If, and only if, Labour comes to power.
    You need to come to power first to make the playing field even.
    And whats makes you think Blairites would entact a policy to help the left-wing labour?

  16. #1076
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Yes, people think that individual policies sound good. But the graph under the one you wanted us to look at shows that, when all the policies are taken as a whole, people didn't think they were affordable or that Labour would manage the economy well. But the most important policy of all - Brexit - is where Labour failed the most.
    And why do people think Labour can't manage the economy? When historically the Tories have always been the party responsible for increasing the debt, and couldn't even balance the books under Thatcher when they were selling off everything the country owned? Why do people think Labour are so bad when the Tories have added a trillion pounds the national debt in 9 years? Why do people think the Labour policies weren't affordable, when their manifesto (and the one for the last election) were fully costed and the Tories manifestos weren't?

    And we're back to the media. Again. And their ability to ensure that Labour is always associated in people's minds with the kind of points you make. Policies, leaders, none of that matters if you have a constant stream of disinformation coming out. Unless people start to think for themselves instead of picking up those points and parroting them back.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  17. #1077
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    And why do people think Labour can't manage the economy? When historically the Tories have always been the party responsible for increasing the debt, and couldn't even balance the books under Thatcher when they were selling off everything the country owned? Why do people think Labour are so bad when the Tories have added a trillion pounds the national debt in 9 years? Why do people think the Labour policies weren't affordable, when their manifesto (and the one for the last election) were fully costed and the Tories manifestos weren't?

    And we're back to the media. Again. And their ability to ensure that Labour is always associated in people's minds with the kind of points you make. Policies, leaders, none of that matters if you have a constant stream of disinformation coming out. Unless people start to think for themselves instead of picking up those points and parroting them back.
    Both Tory and Labour manifestos were judged as not credible by the IFS. Labour would have had to undertake massive borrowing to meet their promises.

    Labour's reputation on the economy is mostly unfair. Some of it stems from memories of the three day week, some of it is from the 2008 crisis which obviously wasn't Labour's fault (although Blair had allowed Brown to spend too much and subsequently the economy wasn't in a great position to deal with the crisis). The perception is that austerity had to happen because of Labour's big spending, even though Osborne recently admitted that austerity wasn't actually necessary at all. Because of the Blair/Brown years people now think of Labour as irresponsible big spenders and the perception is really hard to shift, and their 2019 manifesto certainly didn't help in that regard.

    Sadly politics is as much about perception as it is about the truth, maybe more so. Corbyn should have understood this.

  18. #1078
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Majority of our country basically admitted that it likes being lied to, actually believes the easily debunked bullshit and enjoys being willingly bent over for a shafting. The only question now is just how much of a fucking there will be.

    Maybe if the rest of us go hide in a fucking fridge, things will be ok....
    Just gotta wait till the boomers die off, can be any time now.

  19. #1079
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Labour's reputation on the economy is mostly unfair. Some of it stems from memories of the three day week
    The three day week, you say? That thing that happened under a Tory government? Yup, that certainly sounds unfair to me.

    That is exactly what I'm talking about. A lie repeated so many times that people just repeat it as if it were true. And it is used as a stick to beat Labour with. And you wonder why we despair at the power of the media in this country?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Day_Week
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  20. #1080
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Wouldn't matter, we have younger people that are also dumb as fuck and fit the things I said above.
    Not as much, a few pages back I posted the votes split by age range.


    TL;DR
    400 seats for labour in the 24-49 age range
    600 seats for labour in the 18-24 age range[0 for the tories]

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