[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Aliven]

Man I don't get it, why someone needs to try that hard to defend this 'game'. It would be one thing if there was something to argue about but it is clear as day on the 'release' dates and yet it is just ignored claiming that isn't a release date. The last X amount of pages of this thread has been kenn just being dishonest the whole way. Now we have the other one back in the thread too. What is the point? They are going to convince no one to their way of thinking, they won't suddenly convert someone to buy the 'game'.

He is either deliberate being dishonest to cynicaly push agenda which he is payed to do (which i believe to be true) or he is member of a cult (which i hope isnt the truth).

But the SC community has kinda culty vibe. Like, you need to write you love the game and prove it to even be read ...

[Rennadrel]

He is either deliberate being dishonest to cynicaly push agenda which he is payed to do (which i believe to be true) or he is member of a cult (which i hope isnt the truth).

But the SC community has kinda culty vibe. Like, you need to write you love the game and prove it to even be read ...

Thankfully not all of us who backed the game are apologists for missed release dates, broken promises and a copious amount of delays. I didn't mind the feature creep during the stretch goals, but eventually it got absolutely ridiculous.

[kenn9530]

He is either deliberate being dishonest to cynicaly push agenda which he is payed to do (which i believe to be true) or he is member of a cult (which i hope isnt the truth).

But the SC community has kinda culty vibe. Like, you need to write you love the game and prove it to even be read ...

A release date is irrelevant if a game isnt ready, the game in the kickstarter is nowhere near the same as what is currently being developed, the game has been changed a few times during development so any mention of a release date was made irrelevant.

SC community want a game with a full experience so they are happy to wait as long as it takes to create that game, the current generation of gamers are a little too self entitled so thats why sub par games launch or games launch far too early.

SC is the first game with open development, how many deadlines do other companies miss when developing a game, your judging a company when you cant even see the whole picture, some companies are just making the same game with better graphics and still spend 4-5 years developing a game, your complaining about SC when they have had to build a company from the ground up, develop tech to work in the game and still develop a game with much less staff than most companies have, if you dont take everything into consideration your making an assumption based on your own agenda.

[1001]

A release date is irrelevant if a game isnt ready, the game in the kickstarter is nowhere near the same as what is currently being developed, the game has been changed a few times during development so any mention of a release date was made irrelevant.

In which case the company should not be giving out release dates. Pulling an "Oops, we were too enthusiastic with that, let's try again next year" line is lame as fuck. The release dates were advertised to get people to part with their money because they were being led to believe the product was coming sooner than later. Imagine if EA, Bioware or any other studio pulled that crap, announce a release for Q1 2020 and then not deliver or say anything about the delay, before announcing a new date for Q1 2021 and then not deliver or say anything about the delay before announcing a new date for Q1 2022...

SC community want a game with a full experience so they are happy to wait as long as it takes to create that game, the current generation of gamers are a little too self entitled so thats why sub par games launch or games launch far too early.

Some of the community, probably a very small portion of the community. There are quite a few who were not happy with the scope increase and inevitable delays hence seeking refunds or trying to seek refunds. Let alone the ones who have just washed their hands of the poduct entirely.

SC is the first game with open development, how many deadlines do other companies miss when developing a game, your judging a company when you cant even see the whole picture, some companies are just making the same game with better graphics and still spend 4-5 years developing a game, your complaining about SC when they have had to build a company from the ground up, develop tech to work in the game and still develop a game with much less staff than most companies have, if you dont take everything into consideration your making an assumption based on your own agenda.

Any proof to back up your claim is the first game with open development? or is this one of those fabled comments originating from Kenn's ass?
These other companies you're alluding to do not matter, they are not crowdfunded. The publishers and/or investors will get regular progress updates.
Squadron 42 is literally the same game (WC) with better graphics and has so far taken 7 years compared to your 4-5 for other companies doing the same.

[kenn9530]

In which case the company should not be giving out release dates. Pulling an "Oops, we were too enthusiastic with that, let's try again next year" line is lame as fuck. The release dates were advertised to get people to part with their money because they were being led to believe the product was coming sooner than later. Imagine if EA, Bioware or any other studio pulled that crap, announce a release for Q1 2020 and then not deliver or say anything about the delay, before announcing a new date for Q1 2021 and then not deliver or say anything about the delay before announcing a new date for Q1 2022...



Some of the community, probably a very small portion of the community. There are quite a few who were not happy with the scope increase and inevitable delays hence seeking refunds or trying to seek refunds. Let alone the ones who have just washed their hands of the poduct entirely.



Any proof to back up your claim is the first game with open development? or is this one of those fabled comments originating from Kenn's ass?
These other companies you're alluding to do not matter, they are not crowdfunded. The publishers and/or investors will get regular progress updates.
Squadron 42 is literally the same game (WC) with better graphics and has so far taken 7 years compared to your 4-5 for other companies doing the same.

It was not a release date it was just a possability but when more money came in the game was changed and things chris wanted to do could be done, it was clearly stated in the origional kickstarter they were aiming for a AAA game but would release what they could depending on funding, more money came in so the game got larger.

Open development means everyone even people who have no interest in the game can check the development of the game, there is no game that i can find that does this, especially to the level of constant video updates talking about different areas of development, and the ability to see the progress of the sections they are working on the website.

Most of the community isn't, sadly people have the tendency to judge an entire community based on the most vocal members of it.

... and the fact that some of these people like to pretend that they speak for the entire community doesn't help either, for example:



No Kenn, YOU, YOU are happy with whatever shit Chris pulls, YOU don't care, its irrelevant to YOU, just in the last pages you had 2 backers saying this shit ain't okay, yet you rather ignore all those posts, like you do with whatever is inconvenient to the fanatic narrative you are trying to push here.

origional kickstarter stated they wanted to do a AAA game of which the origional game would not have been, funding went well so the game got larger so its obvious it would take longer, any dates that were mentioned were for the origional game not the AAA title they wanted to develop.

[1001]

It was not a release date it was just a possability but when more money came in the game was changed and things chris wanted to do could be done, it was clearly stated in the origional kickstarter they were aiming for a AAA game but would release what they could depending on funding, more money came in so the game got larger.

Just a possibility... haha get outta here man. Imagine going to work and telling your customers that these are not completion dates, they're just a possibility....

Open development means everyone even people who have no interest in the game can check the development of the game, there is no game that i can find that does this, especially to the level of constant video updates talking about different areas of development, and the ability to see the progress of the sections they are working on the website.

Subnautica, Camelot Unchained, Elite Dangerous was very open prior to release.

SC's "open" development is not the bad as well as the good, it is carefully presented to give a certain impression of what is going on, can we really call that open?

[Aliven]

Lol, no dude, believe it or not this type of behavior isn't anything new.

In fact, you can see it for yourself right now, pop-up your steam and check the board on the game I mentioned earlier, "Day of Dragons".

It suffers from the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, "unity", "survival", "multiplayer" and "early access", they made a Kickstarter to get 12k to hire a 3D artist, people gave them half a million dollars, recently they just dropped an EA on steam for 20€, and honestly, it's just horrible, it's a asset flip with no fucking content at all, and no, I'm not exaggerating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGpev6nqTBI

... and yet, one of the first threads you'll find there is called "stop complaining about day of dragons", is exactly what it sounds like, people parroting the same sort of shit such as "it's not even finished!" as if it excuses 2 years of development and half a million dollars for what a youtuber by the named of IcyCaress managed to recreate in just a couple of days.

People don't need to get paid, they just get extremely emotional attached to these companies and whatever dreams they are selling.


Edited: Oh shit, SC just won an award, congratz!

https://massivelyop.com/2019/12/12/m...usiness-model/

(... and yes, yes, I know, messively op =P)

Im optimist at hearth and believe in good in people.

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Most of the community isn't, sadly people have the tendency to judge an entire community based on the most vocal members of it.

... and the fact that some of these people like to pretend that they speak for the entire community doesn't help either, for example:



No Kenn, YOU, YOU are happy with whatever shit Chris pulls, YOU don't care, its irrelevant to YOU, just in the last pages you had 2 backers saying this shit ain't okay, yet you rather ignore all those posts, like you do with whatever is inconvenient to the fanatic narrative you are trying to push here.

Its simple. If they are not happy they are not part of the community. Cult.

[kenn9530]

Just a possibility... haha get outta here man. Imagine going to work and telling your customers that these are not completion dates, they're just a possibility....



Subnautica, Camelot Unchained, Elite Dangerous was very open prior to release.

SC's "open" development is not the bad as well as the good, it is carefully presented to give a certain impression of what is going on, can we really call that open?

They stated it in the kickstarter right from the start what they planned to do, right at the bottom of the kickstarter page under risks and challenges, main goal was to make a AAA game but depending on funding they may of had to release a lesser game, they didnt know how much money they would raise so thats why the games scope was increased. They couldnt make a AAA title until they knew they would have enough funding.

Open development means they try and show you everything they have developed for the game, those games didnt do that as far as i can see, ED only had some videos talking and not even showing anything.

[kenn9530]

Not as far as you can see, but as far as you want to see, just as with everything else around here, like the post above asking you to back up your claim for example, apparently you also didn't see that, come on, I'll wait.

i already said where you find what you looking for, and the other games are nowhere near open development, they have not shown the development of the game from day 1 so they are just another game showing the bare minimum, while no game can show everything at least show the basic game systems and a brief overview of how they came together.

Risks and challenges

We are aiming for a AAA game experience. But depending on the funding levels reached, we may have to limit the experience for the initially released game version. Nonetheless, Chris Roberts and his teams have shown consistently that they are able to develop epic story-based games. Even with our very limited self-funding we have been able to do already a lot of work which is why we can show you not just concept art and a cinematic trailer, but an extensive demo of actual game play. So, we are confident that even with limited means we will be able to deliver an amazing experience. direct from kickstarter.

[Rennadrel]

Im optimist at hearth and believe in good in people.

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Its simple. If they are not happy they are not part of the community. Cult.

No, I'm quite happy not being a fanatical, white knighting fucking idiot who is OK with 4 years of delays.

[1001]

They stated it in the kickstarter right from the start what they planned to do, right at the bottom of the kickstarter page under risks and challenges, main goal was to make a AAA game but depending on funding they may of had to release a lesser game, they didnt know how much money they would raise so thats why the games scope was increased. They couldnt make a AAA title until they knew they would have enough funding.

Here's the quote

We are aiming for a AAA game experience. But depending on the funding levels reached, we may have to limit the experience for the initially released game version.

That reads very differently to what you are trying to claim.

Open development means they try and show you everything they have developed for the game, those games didnt do that as far as i can see, ED only had some videos talking and not even showing anything.

But they are not showing you everything. What do you know about Sq42? How is the latest level coming along?
The Elite devs would do weekly newsletters covering their work, they also had a lot of participation on the forums. Not everybody wants to sit and plough through thousands of hours of video.

[kenn9530]

Thank you! Now let’s go over again what you previously said…





Do you understand the difference there? The “triple A experience” was what they were aiming from the start, but if the funding levels weren’t reached, they would have to limit what they were aiming for in the “initial release”, meaning the extra shit would have to come later on trough updates, that has nothing to do with delaying everything for as long as they fucking feel like as long as they keep getting showered with cash.



I don’t even understand what’s your point here… first those other games weren’t open-development, now they just ain’t as much as (in your opinion)… dunno dude, sounds like a pointless “my friends dick is bigger” sort of flex.

It has everything to do with the game taking longer, more money means making better tech to make the game work better, without that money only a basic version could be made and who knows if it could easily be improved on at a later date, different techs change how the game operates and how its developed, they changed to a modular system so things can be recreated much faster and the planet tech has evolved many times now.

Releasing a game too early could mean death and losing too many players may make it hard to keep creating content or improving it.

[kenn9530]

That is NOT what they stated on their kickstarter page.

Stop trying to pass your delusional interpretation of it as fact.

By that silly logic, as long as people keep throwing them cash, they’ll never have to release a god damn product, and even if that was true, then what’s your excuse for Freelancer? It went trough pretty much the same fucking development issues while Chris admittedly had no funds for it.

I’ll also like to remind you that extra funding doesn’t necessarily translate just into “more time cuz more shit to add”, because extra funding also means the ability to hire more people and better tools for the job allowing a faster development.

Fact is, regardless how much you squirm around it, Chris has been giving away multiple release dates for shit and failed to meet them over and over, you can sit there giving away excuses for it, pretending that those were not “official release dates” even when they came from the man itself, but truth is, you are barely even able to convince yourself of it.




Yeah, and if they never release it they can keep making a fuck ton of profit from whales while never being hold responsible for the quality of it.

It's indeed a genius move <3

Doesnt matter how much money you get where are those devs going to come from, could take months to hire new personel especially if they dont live anywhere near the studios and need time to settle in to a new enviroment.

There is a released game its called the PU, doesnt matter if its not complete its still a game you can play now. Chris didnt have other means to generate money for freelancer as he was not some large studio, if you though freelancer was good how much better would it of been with even a little more work or features, the game was pretty much ship straight after microsoft bought it once the done a little work.

For all his flaws chris has the passion to make a good game, any other studio would make a bare minimum product and ship it asap, no other company is trying anything close to what SC is delivering, would you rather noone develop a new space game, ED is the only one close and it falls very far from a proper space game for me.

[precious]

I was 32 when i baked for this game i think. Now im 40. When the game fully releases ill be 50. It will be a fun community full of ppl with alzheimer, shaking hands and pensioners lol. Money down the drain. Oh well i lost 500 euros. I just pity the ppl that throwed thousands in that company.

[Aliven]

Doesnt matter how much money you get where are those devs going to come from, could take months to hire new personel especially if they dont live anywhere near the studios and need time to settle in to a new enviroment.

There is a released game its called the PU, doesnt matter if its not complete its still a game you can play now. Chris didnt have other means to generate money for freelancer as he was not some large studio, if you though freelancer was good how much better would it of been with even a little more work or features, the game was pretty much ship straight after microsoft bought it once the done a little work.

For all his flaws chris has the passion to make a good game, any other studio would make a bare minimum product and ship it asap, no other company is trying anything close to what SC is delivering, would you rather noone develop a new space game, ED is the only one close and it falls very far from a proper space game for me.

Passion is bad characteristic for a person who is manager. Hell, he dont even need to know a shit about games. He must hold ALL departments accountable and provide communication between them.

Chris is megalomaniac.

[Super Kami Dende]

Passion is bad characteristic for a person who is manager.

That is one of the most stupid things I've ever read. Passion for something is generally what makes great Managers.

[Majestic12]

I was 32 when i baked for this game i think. Now im 40. When the game fully releases ill be 50. It will be a fun community full of ppl with alzheimer, shaking hands and pensioners lol. Money down the drain. Oh well i lost 500 euros. I just pity the ppl that throwed thousands in that company.

You have it better that some people at least. A guy in my org is retired and probably won't live to see the game release at all due to health reasons.

When he backed, he could never have imagined it would have taken so long to release because he basically took CIG's word for it with regards to all the release dates. As did most of us who invested tons of hours into the game.

[Corvus]

So, what is going to be out first? Star Citizen or GRRM finishing A Song of Fire and Ice?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

So, what is going to be out first? Star Citizen or GRRM finishing A Song of Fire and Ice?

I've already talked extensively about why the ASOIAF book series will never be finished. To put it simply: GRRM didn't have a plan for his book series. He wrote down whatever ideas he thought were "cool", even if they distracted from or outright hindered the advancement of the core story. By the third book, his books were already unreasonably long with a lot of fluff that amounted to nothing. There was so much fluff that the fourth book had to be broken up into two books, and the release of said book was delayed for years because Martin couldn't figure out how to naturally advance the story. (By book 4, the characters pretty much don't have any reason to continue to conflict. Dany has found her calling in Essos, Jon isn't the type to try to reunite the North and try to fight the Lannisters, the Lannisters have secured their kingdom, etc). He has to contrive new reasons to keep the conflict going, and it just stops being compelling. Worse, is that people are invested in the fluff storylines that ultimately won't factor into the greater story. At this point, there is no satisfying ending for the series and GRRM knows it. Honestly, I think the accusations against D&D are over exaggerated. They tried to made do with what they had. They took the fall for GRRM's failure to adequately plan and stick with it.

I also think that GRRM is simply tired. He's been writing this same story for more than two and a half decades. He's burnt out on that story. He's also tired that people only really talk to him about ASOIAF. He's got his wad of money and can retire comfortably. Now that everyone has gotten some sort of "ending" vaguely based on ideas he threw at the wall, he doesn't feel obligated to try. He can just let the fans speculate "his ending would've been better" without having to actually try.

[Aliven]

That is one of the most stupid things I've ever read. Passion for something is generally what makes great Managers.

Why? What passion about project (bias) would help properly manage said project?